steveno89

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 15, 2016 -> 08:01 AM) A full season of time in AAA is a Long time to keep someone there, if they're playing ell enough to earn the callup. With what they've already said it seems likely these guys start in AAA and are there at least long enough to give another year of team control - late May. Starting guys in AAA and letting their performance dictate when they get called up would already be dramatically different from the path we've had guys on the last 2 seasons where the needs of the big leagues squad determined who got called up more than if they were ready. While a #1 draft pick would be nice, if a guy has earned his callup out of that group, call him up. Turning these guys into successful big leaguers is more important to me than picking #1, and they may darn well hit the next level and struggle anyway even if they're succeeding in AAA. I'm totally fine with calling a player up if they deserve it...as long as we gain the additional year of control. Zero point in burning a year of control though. Fans will need to be patient, as we will not see most of our shiny new toys at the mlb level this season

QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Dec 15, 2016 -> 08:08 AM) chisox are still listening to offers for jose quintana. astros involved, but of course others r too. 27, 4 yrs control. https://twitter.com/JonHeyman/status/809397872202485760 I really think the Sox would consider a Martes/Tucker/Reed/Perez offer if the Astros won't dish up Musgrove

QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Dec 15, 2016 -> 08:08 AM) chisox are still listening to offers for jose quintana. astros involved, but of course others r too. 27, 4 yrs control. https://twitter.com/JonHeyman/status/809397872202485760 The list of suitors will go beyond the Astros. Quintana's cheap contract fits into nearly every mlb club's budget. It would be a mistake for other GM's to not speak to the Sox about him

QUOTE (South Sider @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 11:17 PM) It's too bad Colorado or no one else seems serious about trading for Q. Without another contender, Houston can just attempt to do what the Sox did last year with Cespedes... "they'll have no choice but to take our lowball offer." We all know how that turned out for the Sox, and I think something similar happens to Houston. They either don't get a TOR starter to start 2017, or they decide to pay the price. Let's hope they aren't as stubborn as the Sox were, or that another team or two finally seriously jump into this. Just be patient. While I think he gets moved this offseason, it could be at the deadline or next offseason for Quintana. There is no need to rush the process when we need to get the best return

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 04:01 PM) I don't think he is but Shuck in center and Garcia in right would lead to a lot of extra bases for the opponent. Actually, Melky in left would make us a terrible outfield all around in that case haha Melky / Shuck / Garcia might be the worst defensive outfield in the majors

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 03:59 PM) Castillo signs with the O's. 1 year / $6M, with a $7M player option for year 2. Not a bad deal. Even though he's pretty bad defensively, I would have loved that deal. I would have taken that deal as well. You could do alot worse than a Castillo/Narvaez platoon

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Dec 12, 2016 -> 02:18 PM) The Sox will probably still be better on paper than a few of the tanking NL teams by virtue of Rodon, Abreu and Anderson alone. BUT, the Sox wont face an NL schedule. Sox are in the ultra-competitive AL where the only other teams that could even be considered rebuilding are the Twins who badly want to start winning, the A's where Beane is up to god knows what and the Yankees who still hand out $80m contracts while they rebuild. The Reds and Brewers have to play each other 19 times a year, and they have series against the Braves, Padres and Phillies to boot. When these horrible teams play each other someone has to win, that's what keeps these AAA rosters from breaking loss records. The bilge of the NL is kind of like a self-sustaining organism that keeps anyone from losing too much. No such thing in the AL. The rest of the AL is going to run train on the poor White Sox without mercy. Especially the division where the Twins want to forget 2016 ever happened, the Tigers are going to make another run at it with this core, the Royals are still in their window and the Indians are coming off losing game 7 of the WS in extras. That's 76 games and it is going to be a bloodbath. The loss record is in sight if the Sox keep making trades. I for one hope they dont make history but #1 overall in 2018 sure would be nice. It's shocking to think how bad some NL teams would be if they had to play an American League schedule Going full rebuild in the AL should put us in Minnesota Twins territory of sucking. If we deal Quintana, Robertson, etc. you can pencil in about 60 wins A full AAA replacement level team is estimated to win about 43 major league games, we would not be more than 20 games above that with a rotation of Rodon/Gonzalez/Shields/Holland/Bozo

QUOTE (shipps @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 12:12 PM) I guess but I would think the more efficient posturing would be to feed Nightengale info about other teams being involved, not just the Astro's are the Sox favorite potential partners just not offering enough. They could just tell the Astros that themselves. Other teams could still get involved on Quintana. Nearly every contender could use him

QUOTE (miracleon35th @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 12:07 PM) Out of 8 position players we have two young players, Moncada and Tim Anderson, to build around, and possibly a third Zack Collins,, that could grow into a future core of star players in their early/mid-twenties around the same time. Unless and until that core of elite position player prospects is added to we may not see any light at the end of the tunnel. Time is of the essence in at least accumulating that young core so that they will all reach a career crescendo in the same time frame. With two trades we already have a solid start to the rebuild. It is going to take many more moves to get where we need to be Sox fans just need to be patient

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 11:42 AM) Nah the Rangers could get him too if they really wanted to. The Mariners are a non starter though, Tyler O'Niell is all they have and he's barely on the level of the 3rd pieces available from Houston. I can't see the rangers putting a package together that wouldn't really hurt their mlb roster Their farm took a hit with their deadline deal for lucroy and jeffress. Gallo can't hit, don't even talk about profar... I don't see it working

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 11:36 AM) Agree..and hopefully Quintana is moved before the start of the season. I keep looking at AL west...The Astros Rangers and even Mariners are reasonably close and someone should push the chips in for him. The Astros are the only al west team with the prospects to pull off a Quintana deal

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 10:55 AM) There is going to be an explosion of action fairly soon. There are a lot of teams that have done next to nothing yet. Sometimes it just takes some time for a market for certain players to develop. Agreed, there are many teams that have not done much of anything this offseason but still plan to make moves Quintana would look great on any contender

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 10:40 AM) Totally agreed. But I don't think we can dismiss what the last 20 years have told us about this organization. Plus, if you can't get anything meaningful for Frazier, Melky, Lawrie - why move them? I'd rather see if the offers are better in June/July, than take some backend top 20 prospect from a farm that will likely never make the majors. What good does that do? Saves Jerry some $, that is about it. Obviously if the trade offers are not good we keep them and try to flip them at the deadline I think there will be enough demand for Quintana and Robertson to get moved this offseason though Frazier, Melky, Abreu, Jones, Gonzalez are more likely to start the season on the Sox roster

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 10:33 AM) How do we know that? The front office has already stated they aren't moving those guys unless they get full value in return (in their eyes). Why are we certain that they will receive a satisfactory return this offseason? You do not just trade Sale and Eaton and call it an offseason, that would run counter to performing an impactful rebuild Trading Eaton and Sale effectively punts on the next two seasons, so why keep players around any longer than they need to be? I will not trade them for less value than they are worth, but by the deadline in 2017 you will see pretty much every tradeable asset moved

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 10:25 AM) Can you read? In my scenario, I said Quintana and Robertson DON'T get move. That is what "as currently constructed" means. Last I checked, those dudes are still cashing checks from the Chicago White Sox. Of course, as currently constructed we are not THAT bad But, we all know that guys like Quintana/Robertson/FRazier/etc are more likely than not going to be moved for prospects

QUOTE (Dunt @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 10:22 AM) Depending on who they trade off, they could easily be a 50-60 win team next season, and I am more than ok with that. I will actually go out to the stadium and have fun again because I know the team has a direction and a purpose. People think that the Sox will need to suck for a few years to accumulate the talent necessary to really turn this around and I honestly disagree. 2017 will be awful, but in 2018, this team will be quite competitive once again. They will probably need some more development from bats to be a playoff team at that point, but I think between the pitching and potential good defense, they will be pretty solid. 2019 I think they definitely have the makings of a playoff team. Next couple of years are going to be pretty exciting, and while I wont actively root for them to ever lose, I am completely ok with it. We are all wishing the rebuild will move that quickly, but more than likely fans need to be prepared for a more lengthy amount of time to get back to being competitive. I see the 2017 and 2018 Sox being a bottom 5-8 club 2019 I think we get to .500 or slightly above 2020-2023 we compete for the division each season Sox fans should prepare to be very patient, as rebuilding takes time. These prospects are unlikely to come up to the big leagues and dominate right away, there will be growing pains and a waiting game for players to develop.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 10:14 AM) To be fair, I said COULD play .500 ball. Sox won 78 games last year and pretty much everyone besides Sale, Eaton, Q and Melky underperformed. A lineup of: Anderson - SS Melky - LF Abreu - 1B Frazier - 3B Alvarez / Morneau - DH Lawrie - 2B Rasmus - CF Liriano / Avi - RF Narvaez / Some FA - C I think Alvarez / Morneau could be had pretty cheap. Could probably get Rasmus on a one year deal around $8-$10M. That lineup isn't great, but its also not awful. You have Moncada who could come up a take Lawrie's spot when he gets hurt. Look, I don't think that team will compete, but its also not completely crazy to think that team could be within 5 games of .500 by mid June. Have Giolito, Lopez and Fulmer in AAA waiting for a shot in the rotation. I fully expect (and hope) to the Sox to make further moves to make this all moot, but right now, the core of .500ish team is still there. Let's not forget that the Sox have tried to win for pretty much 2 decades straight. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see a lineup like this on opening day. You can still trade guys like Frazier, Melky, Lawrie, Robertson mid-season, and guys like Q and Abreu next offseason. If you're not getting something useful for the impending FAs now, may as well hold and see what happens. The lineup won't be the reason we are awful, the starting rotation minus Quintana and bullpen minus Robertson is why we will be awful

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 10:11 AM) Yeah hopefully he keeps hitting that way the next 2 seasons and we continue trading off important pieces. Beer put up a 1.235 OPS as a freshman That is beyond Babe Ruth esque If there is a time to tank for a player, here it is Thigns can change of course, but Beer is looking every bit the part of a future stud

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 10:01 AM) I know what you're saying. We're bad but by no means one of the worst teams. I still hope they move Quintana, Frazier, and then Robertson or Melky (has he been linked to anyone? Maybe a fit in Baltimore or San Fran?). Maybe call the Dodgers up and see if they want a cheap 2B (Lawrie). We had the 5th worst record in the American League in 2016 If we trade Quintana + others we can pencil ourselves in for 60-65 wins at best and we would be one of the worst teams in baseball A rotation of Rodon/Gonzalez/Shields/Holland/Covey/Beck/Crappy FA signing = 60 wins

QUOTE (WBWSF @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 10:08 AM) I don't want to see this team losing for years just to get a high draft choice. How many of those high draft choices turn out to be good? (Remember Jared Mitchell?) I've been told by numerous people that JR hates losing. It'll be curious to see how he reacts if this team keeps losing for years. I still think the team is going to be sold within 3 years. By that time this team won't have any big contracts on the books. It's alot easier to sell a team if it doesn't have any big contracts to payout. I would not mind being the worst team in Baseball if it meant we get to draft Seth Beer #1 overall in the 2018 draft He was an absolute stud as a freshman this season at Clemson

QUOTE (Jose Paniagua @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 09:59 AM) During games, I root for the Bears to lose. It's easy. They're bad, there aren't that many games, and football is my third or fourth favorite sport. With the Sox it's more complicated for me. The Cubs turned losing into Bryant, Baez, etc. They may rip off 3 ringz in 5 years, and it happened with losing, smart drafting and THEN free agent signings. But to mimic it, we have to be very bad for at least a few years. To jump right back in in 2018 is taking half measures (but not like the usual Sox 'half measure', granted) Now, the Sox have been cutting guys that those bad Cubs teams had at the forefront (i.e. Mike Olt) so it may be very difficult for us to be THAT bad. Even after a total firesale, we probably still have quality contributors like rodon/anderson/saladino - and then other guys like melky, lawrie and shields who are still veterans and capable of creating wins. So a couple questions: how bad can we be, and can you root for badness, or is it not in your makeup to do so? Sox fans won't actively root against the ball club, but the losses (and believe me, there will be plenty of them) won't sting as much knowing it leads to a higher draft slot

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 09:59 AM) I like it. I have always been a fan of Holland. He was fun to watch pitch a few years back. Don't love that he is such a flyball pitcher, but its a solid move for the backend of the rotation. I hate to say it because I know I will get crucified - but the Sox are currently constructed could still play .500 ball. Could is the key word. I expect further moves, but right now the lineup and rotation isn't awful. Add a decent DH like Alvarez or Morneau and the team could be interesting without further subtractions. How are we built to play .500 baseball? We will be lucky to win 65 or 70 games in 2017

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 09:57 AM) I tend to think he's toast, but worth a shot I suppose. His average fastball velocity went from 93/94 to 90 over the past 3 or 4 seasons so Coop is really gonna teach him how to pitch or it's going to more of the same. Again, worth a shot, just not the reclamation project I personally would have chosen. Not very many decent options out there for reclamation Tyson Ross likely wants to go to a contender Doug Fister possibly to eat innings? Holland could rebuild some value with a solid season?

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 09:49 AM) I don't think they are counting on him breaking camp with that guy as a starter. You can't really guarantee a guy who's never pitched above AA any spot You bring him to Spring Training and see if he can stick. But yes, Quintana will probably be next. But this signing I wouldn't say makes it definitive. Covey is an option at starting pitcher, but more likely he ends up in the pen Hate to say it, but who really even cares? After dealing Robertson, Frazier (possibly), Quintana, etc. we are on track to win 60 games at best in 2017...which I am totally ok with as it sets us up for a top 3 draft pick

QUOTE (FT35 @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 09:48 AM) He! This is true! I do think they are approaching it as if to acquire all the best talent--regardless of position. It's early and they are simply looking to acquire assets of value. It's kind of like you do in fantasy baseball--take the best player available and then if you end up with a surplus at the end of the draft, you flip something you have for something you need of equal value. Personally I'd like to see the rebuild center around position players then buy any needed SP when you're ready to contend. I like the idea of these guys playing together as early as possible--turning double plays, learning relay throws...all things defensively benefit by having a good core of 8 players on the field. Then, just add water (pitcher). We all would like to see some bats added to the farm, but I strongly believe in going for the best prospects available in a trade We have needs all over the place, and you truly never can have too much pitching.