steveno89

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 10:33 AM) How do we know that? The front office has already stated they aren't moving those guys unless they get full value in return (in their eyes). Why are we certain that they will receive a satisfactory return this offseason? You do not just trade Sale and Eaton and call it an offseason, that would run counter to performing an impactful rebuild Trading Eaton and Sale effectively punts on the next two seasons, so why keep players around any longer than they need to be? I will not trade them for less value than they are worth, but by the deadline in 2017 you will see pretty much every tradeable asset moved

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 10:25 AM) Can you read? In my scenario, I said Quintana and Robertson DON'T get move. That is what "as currently constructed" means. Last I checked, those dudes are still cashing checks from the Chicago White Sox. Of course, as currently constructed we are not THAT bad But, we all know that guys like Quintana/Robertson/FRazier/etc are more likely than not going to be moved for prospects

QUOTE (Dunt @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 10:22 AM) Depending on who they trade off, they could easily be a 50-60 win team next season, and I am more than ok with that. I will actually go out to the stadium and have fun again because I know the team has a direction and a purpose. People think that the Sox will need to suck for a few years to accumulate the talent necessary to really turn this around and I honestly disagree. 2017 will be awful, but in 2018, this team will be quite competitive once again. They will probably need some more development from bats to be a playoff team at that point, but I think between the pitching and potential good defense, they will be pretty solid. 2019 I think they definitely have the makings of a playoff team. Next couple of years are going to be pretty exciting, and while I wont actively root for them to ever lose, I am completely ok with it. We are all wishing the rebuild will move that quickly, but more than likely fans need to be prepared for a more lengthy amount of time to get back to being competitive. I see the 2017 and 2018 Sox being a bottom 5-8 club 2019 I think we get to .500 or slightly above 2020-2023 we compete for the division each season Sox fans should prepare to be very patient, as rebuilding takes time. These prospects are unlikely to come up to the big leagues and dominate right away, there will be growing pains and a waiting game for players to develop.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 10:14 AM) To be fair, I said COULD play .500 ball. Sox won 78 games last year and pretty much everyone besides Sale, Eaton, Q and Melky underperformed. A lineup of: Anderson - SS Melky - LF Abreu - 1B Frazier - 3B Alvarez / Morneau - DH Lawrie - 2B Rasmus - CF Liriano / Avi - RF Narvaez / Some FA - C I think Alvarez / Morneau could be had pretty cheap. Could probably get Rasmus on a one year deal around $8-$10M. That lineup isn't great, but its also not awful. You have Moncada who could come up a take Lawrie's spot when he gets hurt. Look, I don't think that team will compete, but its also not completely crazy to think that team could be within 5 games of .500 by mid June. Have Giolito, Lopez and Fulmer in AAA waiting for a shot in the rotation. I fully expect (and hope) to the Sox to make further moves to make this all moot, but right now, the core of .500ish team is still there. Let's not forget that the Sox have tried to win for pretty much 2 decades straight. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see a lineup like this on opening day. You can still trade guys like Frazier, Melky, Lawrie, Robertson mid-season, and guys like Q and Abreu next offseason. If you're not getting something useful for the impending FAs now, may as well hold and see what happens. The lineup won't be the reason we are awful, the starting rotation minus Quintana and bullpen minus Robertson is why we will be awful

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 10:11 AM) Yeah hopefully he keeps hitting that way the next 2 seasons and we continue trading off important pieces. Beer put up a 1.235 OPS as a freshman That is beyond Babe Ruth esque If there is a time to tank for a player, here it is Thigns can change of course, but Beer is looking every bit the part of a future stud

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 10:01 AM) I know what you're saying. We're bad but by no means one of the worst teams. I still hope they move Quintana, Frazier, and then Robertson or Melky (has he been linked to anyone? Maybe a fit in Baltimore or San Fran?). Maybe call the Dodgers up and see if they want a cheap 2B (Lawrie). We had the 5th worst record in the American League in 2016 If we trade Quintana + others we can pencil ourselves in for 60-65 wins at best and we would be one of the worst teams in baseball A rotation of Rodon/Gonzalez/Shields/Holland/Covey/Beck/Crappy FA signing = 60 wins

QUOTE (WBWSF @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 10:08 AM) I don't want to see this team losing for years just to get a high draft choice. How many of those high draft choices turn out to be good? (Remember Jared Mitchell?) I've been told by numerous people that JR hates losing. It'll be curious to see how he reacts if this team keeps losing for years. I still think the team is going to be sold within 3 years. By that time this team won't have any big contracts on the books. It's alot easier to sell a team if it doesn't have any big contracts to payout. I would not mind being the worst team in Baseball if it meant we get to draft Seth Beer #1 overall in the 2018 draft He was an absolute stud as a freshman this season at Clemson

QUOTE (Jose Paniagua @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 09:59 AM) During games, I root for the Bears to lose. It's easy. They're bad, there aren't that many games, and football is my third or fourth favorite sport. With the Sox it's more complicated for me. The Cubs turned losing into Bryant, Baez, etc. They may rip off 3 ringz in 5 years, and it happened with losing, smart drafting and THEN free agent signings. But to mimic it, we have to be very bad for at least a few years. To jump right back in in 2018 is taking half measures (but not like the usual Sox 'half measure', granted) Now, the Sox have been cutting guys that those bad Cubs teams had at the forefront (i.e. Mike Olt) so it may be very difficult for us to be THAT bad. Even after a total firesale, we probably still have quality contributors like rodon/anderson/saladino - and then other guys like melky, lawrie and shields who are still veterans and capable of creating wins. So a couple questions: how bad can we be, and can you root for badness, or is it not in your makeup to do so? Sox fans won't actively root against the ball club, but the losses (and believe me, there will be plenty of them) won't sting as much knowing it leads to a higher draft slot

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 09:59 AM) I like it. I have always been a fan of Holland. He was fun to watch pitch a few years back. Don't love that he is such a flyball pitcher, but its a solid move for the backend of the rotation. I hate to say it because I know I will get crucified - but the Sox are currently constructed could still play .500 ball. Could is the key word. I expect further moves, but right now the lineup and rotation isn't awful. Add a decent DH like Alvarez or Morneau and the team could be interesting without further subtractions. How are we built to play .500 baseball? We will be lucky to win 65 or 70 games in 2017

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 09:57 AM) I tend to think he's toast, but worth a shot I suppose. His average fastball velocity went from 93/94 to 90 over the past 3 or 4 seasons so Coop is really gonna teach him how to pitch or it's going to more of the same. Again, worth a shot, just not the reclamation project I personally would have chosen. Not very many decent options out there for reclamation Tyson Ross likely wants to go to a contender Doug Fister possibly to eat innings? Holland could rebuild some value with a solid season?

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 09:49 AM) I don't think they are counting on him breaking camp with that guy as a starter. You can't really guarantee a guy who's never pitched above AA any spot You bring him to Spring Training and see if he can stick. But yes, Quintana will probably be next. But this signing I wouldn't say makes it definitive. Covey is an option at starting pitcher, but more likely he ends up in the pen Hate to say it, but who really even cares? After dealing Robertson, Frazier (possibly), Quintana, etc. we are on track to win 60 games at best in 2017...which I am totally ok with as it sets us up for a top 3 draft pick

QUOTE (FT35 @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 09:48 AM) He! This is true! I do think they are approaching it as if to acquire all the best talent--regardless of position. It's early and they are simply looking to acquire assets of value. It's kind of like you do in fantasy baseball--take the best player available and then if you end up with a surplus at the end of the draft, you flip something you have for something you need of equal value. Personally I'd like to see the rebuild center around position players then buy any needed SP when you're ready to contend. I like the idea of these guys playing together as early as possible--turning double plays, learning relay throws...all things defensively benefit by having a good core of 8 players on the field. Then, just add water (pitcher). We all would like to see some bats added to the farm, but I strongly believe in going for the best prospects available in a trade We have needs all over the place, and you truly never can have too much pitching.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 09:33 AM) If Gammons quote is accurate and the Sox were willing to trade for a Tucker/Martes/Musgrove package, you have to think eventually something will get done with Houston. They are 100% analytics, so Q, who probably is the Ben Zobrist of pitching sabermetrically, is one of the best pitchers in baseball to them, signed cheaply for 4 years with a couple of outs in case something horrible happens. I think there will be a 4 or 5 prospect trade for him myself. All of the other dancing IMO is just for show. I am open to a 4 or 5 prospect deal, so long as the depth in the package is quality Our farm system is very top heavy right now and needs quality depth. A quintana package does need to net them premium talent though

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 09:41 AM) I am not positive here, but the link title and article title say they have a deal, but the article doesn't mention it. White Sox Wire ‏@whitesoxpress 6m6 minutes ago #WhiteSox: Source: White Sox strike deal with Holland http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article/cws/white-sox-derek-holland-close-in-on-contract?ymd=20161214&content_id=211135908&vkey=news_cws …://http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article/cws...vkey=news_cws …://http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article/cws...vkey=news_cws … http://playerpress.com Decent low risk signing on a 1 year deal I'm sure We need bodies to eat innings, and if he does well we could deal him at the deadline

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 08:56 AM) Or even 2-3 WAR. Other than 1 more bat, that was what was lacking the last few years. The Sox just weren't solid around the diamond and on the mound. Some 2-3 War volume, instead of 1-neg 1 WAR volume, who have made the difference. Now they needed a lot of that volume. As for Q, I think the Astros will come back to the table. The Sox negotiated down from Devers to 2 other players; similarly, they wanted Musgrove and Martes; just take one and 2 lesser players, plus Tucker (who should be a must). I also wonder about Seattle...they sure could use Q. Sox should not reduce the price for Quintana as he is pretty much the only quality pitching option on the market right now. With Houston not offering Bregman, a deal with them lacks a true elite prospect (like Moncada). Martes/Tucker is a starting point, but I don't feel that a deal is close without significantly more coming to the Sox Reed/Stubbs/Perez/Laureano/Whitley/Hernandez are all players of interest that could potentially round out a trade

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 12:06 AM) Its only been 2 years. He might not make it (I personally don't believe he will) but an arm/talent like that? You make the move everytime. Eh, he's fallen off the map I think we can get better prospects than Kolek for Robertson

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Dec 13, 2016 -> 05:08 PM) A low 1st round pick and Kolek could entice me. Kolek has had injuries and has not performed well since being drafted Far too soon to write him off, but he is far from the top prospect he was a few years ago

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 13, 2016 -> 04:28 PM) Just saw the draft order for the competitive balance portion of the draft was released. Marlins can always throw in their pick to a deal. I don't really like the Marlins system very much as a match for the Sox

QUOTE (hi8is @ Dec 12, 2016 -> 07:11 PM) If only Those proposals are insane haha

QUOTE (bighurt574 @ Dec 13, 2016 -> 04:00 PM) The teams that would be interested in Robertson (e.g., Washington) aren't going to really care about the $$$ on his deal to give up a bigger return if the Sox eat some of it. The free agency cost of closers has skyrocketed, Robertson's deal does not seem as huge anymore 2 years/ $24 million is not awful for a decent closer

QUOTE (y2chae @ Dec 13, 2016 -> 03:51 PM) Given what the market is right now for reliable closers, I think Robertson could get a top 50 prospect return, especially if the Sox eat some of that contract. Robertson is a more valuable trade chip than he was a week ago. He is a decent closer on a "reasonable" contract, especially if the Sox eat a little bit of it

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 13, 2016 -> 02:06 PM) I agree. I never quite got the idea why we weren't trying to see if he could be an effective reliever. The whole notion of him as a starter was awful, imo. While too soon to give up on him being a starter, I see Carson Fulmer having the potential to be a very good reliever in time. If he can just focus for an inning or two and harness his raw stuff he could be an overpowering setup man or closer

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 13, 2016 -> 01:58 PM) Yes, but just getting his feet wet. Make it full time in Spring Training, and when he goes to AAA. He was awful so he wasn't getting consistent work. I don't think he will pull an Andrew Miller, but I think he could still have a decent career. Andrew Miller's turnaround is one of the more interesting cases that I have seen of a player going from a bust to elite level Don't think we will see anything like that again soon. He immediately started to get better after being converted to a full time reliever, but it is amazing how he was able to drastically cut his walk rate in the span of a few seasons

QUOTE (SoxBrah @ Dec 13, 2016 -> 01:42 PM) Closer market is hot right now. Get it done and get some position players. Miami makes a lot of sense. We could deal Robertson now and let Jones close If Jones does well he will be a hot name come the deadline It all depends on the return

QUOTE (cornball @ Dec 13, 2016 -> 01:38 PM) Personally, I think the Pirates are a great match for Q. They have several high rated players blocked and could easily come up with a package. The pirates finished 25 games behind the Cubs in 2016, I don't see them being willing to sell the farm for Quintana when they are likely better off letting their own prospects develop