steveno89
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Posts posted by steveno89
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Just now, DirtySox said:
Another potential option bites the dust...
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1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said:
There is ZERO percent chance Ryu signs for 3/$50M or less.
I could see Ryu settling for a two year deal with an option. The injury history is hard to ignore.
I have not heard of one reported three year offer for Ryu.
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1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:
Which of these is the biggest risk?
1. Overpaying by going to $135 million on Wheeler
2. Signing Keuchel or Ryu despite the red flags
3. Having a bunch of stuff go right but missing the playoffs or struggling and wasting a year of control for Moncada and Giolito because you started the season with a weak pitching rotation
Signing them to what though? Is rolling the dice on Ryu for two years a risk worth taking? Perhaps. Keuchel for three years? Perhaps.
If Ryu wants three and Keuchel wants four I think we would be wise to look elsewhere for help. These guys could still be in play for the Sox.
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39 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:
Yes, there was and still is. Go after the next best options...
Bumgarner for $85 million which was $33 million dollars less than Wheeler signed for. Ryu and Keuchel are still available.
There were and still are options available. Just because you miss out on your “Plan A” doesn’t mean you completely stop trying. That is a loser’s mentality.
You seem to be making excuses for Hahn and the Sox.
You do not know what else goes on in these negotiations though. I always suspected it would be difficult to get Bumgarner to leave the NL, especially the West.
Ryu and Keuchel remain unsigned, we cannot really talk what ifs until the ink is dried. What we do know if that Ryu has an extensive injury history and going multi year with him would be a massive risk.
Keuchel remains a possibility, but the Sox will sit back and continue to monitor free agent markets. There are years and prices that make sense, and years and prices that do not. Going out and spending on players for the hell of it is not smart. There are very real red flags on these guys.
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Just now, Moan4Yoan said:
How are two bargain basement starters better than one of Ryu/Keuchel if the Sox are trying to win next year?
I am not saying this is necessarily what I want to happen, but it is looking more and more likely that this is what happens.
Ryu is made of glass and is unlikely to leave the West Coast. Keuchel makes degrees of sense, but really depends on at what cost and how many years.
Just now, fathom said:This organization has such a losing mentality. Never seen a front office more afraid to try and actually compete in a given season. Only having one option in Wheeler and failing to get him is terrible business.
There is not a clear answer following the miss on Wheeler. Unfortunate, but reality.
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1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:
What’s going to happen in 2021 though when Vaughn is up? I was much more in favor of the rotating DH idea prior to the Abreu extension.
We all hope Vaughn is on a 2021 MLB trajectory, but hard to pencil him in until he mashes in 2020. McCann will likely be gone after 2020, and Abreu and Vaughn could trade off 1B/DH.
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22 minutes ago, BrianAnderson said:
What does everybody think about a 6 man rotation? I would actually like to see one and let nature take its course over the year.
I think the positives are that you limit Kopech and Cease's innings + if there's an injury you keep trucking along rather than dip down to Banuelos and Detwilers of the world. I doubt that's the Mets plan, and I think it's limited to teams like the Sox and Royals and teams not squarely in contention. For someone like the Mets it doesn't make sense to skip extra games of Thor and DeGrom, but for the Sox, and this year in a vacuum? I like it actually. I've been throwing around some of the same names for a while, and will do it agian for conversation ...
Giolito
Alex Wood
R. Lopez
I. Nova
Cease
Kopech
You can follow the Kopech time manipulation game if you'd like, but let's say by May this is your rotation. Then you let the chips fall where they may. Chances are that you'll have an injury so it wouldn't be a big deal - at that point you're back to a 5 man rotation. But if not, just let everything work itself out. If Nova is pitching like first half Nova last year? Pull the plug. If Alex Wood is pitching back to a 3.50ERA and looking great - then flip him to a playoff contender. If R. Lopez is struggling? Maybe bullpen time for him. I think it accomplishes a lot this year. Plus you have Rodon in August.
Just food for thought. Not necessarily conventional, but I'm a fan.
James does a great job at answering questions and alluding to what the front office is likely dealing with. Missing on Wheeler was huge, because they projected him to still be a quality option in years two, three and four, whereas you really cannot do that with many of the remaining FA pitching options.
It will not make people happy, and is far from sexy, but I am starting to expect two bargain bin starters on one year deals being added to the 2020 team. The Central is winnable, but James' point about going from low 70's wins to near 90 is not easy to do in a single offseason. Overpaying now for pitching we may not even want in twelve months is a difficult decision. I am not here to carry water or to say this is an acceptable approach, but long term it may be in our best interests.
Our farm is top heavy and fairly thin on depth that we should not be stealing from at this stage to bandaid the MLB roster.
Colome/Herrera come off the books after 2020, opening up nearly $18.8 million in payroll. Yes, we will need to address the bullpen, but that breathing room will be nice. We need internal options to develop and be MLB ready.
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13 minutes ago, Buehrle>Wood said:
I agree it's different circumstances yet everyone wants to send him down for control reasons. Every post that has mentioned him starting in AAA has mentioned control as the primary reason. Hes not stupid and will see the same thing everyone else does, but fair the injury makes for a nice excuse. It's extremely clear hes one of the best starting options on the team (barring him having a double digit era in ST or something). He will be upset if hes not up here opening day and knows how much that can cost him financially. We will just have to wait and see what decisions they make I guess.
Is it? Have you seen him face live batters since September 2018?
We have no idea how he will fare until Spring Training, and even then, exactly what ChiSox59 said
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1 minute ago, Buehrle>Wood said:
If I had to guess, kopech will be on the opening day roster. If not I imagine a grievance will be filed immediately. And while that would lose, I'm guessing the sox want to avoid the drama all together.
Kopech has zero basis to file a grievance
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Just now, Perfect Vision said:
If Kopech struggles with his command in spring training, then yes, he should go to AAA. If he looks sharp, though, he should be in the rotation. Many seem to be advocating for AAA no matter how he looks.
You get the lost season of control back for a player like Kopech. There's no reason to rush him back and toss him into a MLB rotation in early April.
There's a strong chance you do not like what you see from him this spring anyway, and he will need that minor league time to work his way back.
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10 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:
Two “depth purposes” starters isn’t good enough.
Not saying it is.
We could do worse than a player like Gonzalez as our fifth starter though. He should not cost too much and could be had on a one year deal. Far from sexy, but could be a reasonable bounce back to a 2+ WAR season kind of guy.
I have higher hopes, but getting better is getting better.
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Just now, Perfect Vision said:
Not a single starter will enter spring training ready to throw 5+ innings. They all build up arm strength over those 6 weeks. I agree they need to see how it goes. But if/when he outperforms Covey or whoever, he should be in the opening day rotation.
Sox are certainly going to acquire two more starting pitchers prior to spring training, even if only for depth purposes.
Covey and Fulmer will not be a part of the rotation, if they are then the offseason was an utter disaster.
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1 minute ago, Perfect Vision said:
But I assume you think that Cease has earned a rotation spot. He only has 73 MLB innings and they weren't particularly great ones.
Pick one: He hasn't earned a rotation spot or he needs to build up arm strength and face hitters. Those are two separate things.
If you don't think he's earned a spot, I would argue neither has Cease. But I don't think anyone is assuming he won't be in the opening day rotation. If you think he needs to build up arm strength, that's exactly what spring training is for. No reason that he can't be on the same strengthening program as all the other starters beginning in February through the end of spring training.
Cease has faced hitters in 2019, Kopech has not.
Sure, they will see how Kopech does in spring training, but he is still ticketed to start in AAA, where he will not be asked to immediately be throwing 5+ innings as a starter.
You cannot pencil in a guy coming back from TJS surgery for anything until you see how it goes with him on the mound for awhile.
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19 minutes ago, Perfect Vision said:
I think it's dumb that they're planning on sending Kopech to AAA to start the season. Hahn's comments are nonsensical. He says it's been 18 months since he's thrown a pitch to a hitter. So what. That's what spring training is for. If he enters spring training healthy and without restriction, then he's in the same boat as all the other pitchers: use those 6 weeks to build up arm strength and shake off the rust.
Then Hahn talks about letting the kid develop. Um, he's developed. They called him up in August 2018 because he was developed. Does someone suddenly lose their MLB readiness from a development standpoint because they get injured?
There's a critical distinction between rehab and development that Hahn is blurring. Kopech's dominance in AAA and call up in 2018 is evidence that he is developed and MLB ready. He doesn't need to go to AAA for further development. Since he was injured, we're just talking about rehab, and at the end of spring training next year he should be fully rehabbed and used to pitching against hitters again.
This is service time manipulation. Period. And since Kopech is going to be better than whoever he's competing with to be the 5th starter, he should be in the opening day rotation.
Kopech has 14 MLB innings to his name and has not earned a starting rotation spot in any sense. Kopech absolutely should be sent to AAA for at least a month to build up his arm and face hitters.
Sox absolutely are going to get the lost year of service time back, but there's zero argument against having him be in AAA for 1-2 months.
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1 minute ago, ChiSox1917 said:
This is so dumb. I would understand the front office not wanting to sign guys over 30 if there’s success had been based on having power stuff. But to pass on guys who were also soft tosses in their 20s and simply know how to pitch is absurd. Those types of guys don’t fall off a cliff all of a sudden.
We are not privy to what actual asks/contract demands are. Ryu/Keuchel are likely asking for big money and years.
Do you want Ryu at 3/$75 million? Do you want Keuchel at 4/$80 million? No.
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17 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:
Can you elaborate on the bolded part? What language are you referring to?
Seems to me it's been very quiet on the Ryu/Keuchel front for all teams, not just the White Sox.
Has anything you have seen suggested the Sox are truly in on any free agent starting pitching right now?
1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:Beat writers seem to be pushing back against the narrative that the White Sox are involved in either; from Fegan's last two pieces, he has implied that the Sox don't see value in these post 30 starters without power stuff and find them to be too risky, and a "forced signing" and not one they would make normally.
Ray, I'm on board with you on that. Overpaying declining starters gets teams in big trouble.
I know we should try to compete in 2020, but not at the expense of forcing it with players we do not want long term.
Sox are conscious of age curves and have been reluctant to ink players much over thirty to multi year deals, with the exception of Grandal.
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5 minutes ago, bmags said:
There's been a lot of red flag pitchers getting paid. Clearly there are multiple teams bidding on price, which is a good position for Boston to be in.
Do I think anyone will feel sad about whatever return boston gets, not really, I also don't even want price. But the fact is Boston will almost certainly be able to shed price to the dollar amount they need.
It's another feather in the cap for not worrying so much about the last few years of a deal.
Sox should want no part of Price
I cannot imagine Boston would eat $60 million just to move him, there's a difference between teams expressing interest and actually trading for him.
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1 hour ago, Lillian said:
The article concludes the following: "Finding a team willing to pay Price a total of $70 million over three years, $23.33 million annually) would largely solve what is considered to be a complex issue."
Does anyone realistically believe that Boston is going to find a team willing to take on that contract, without including any more than just $26 Million? I'm not buying it, at least not without the Red Sox including another player.
That article is lunacy. The more I think about it, the Red Sox would have to eat $60 million of that contract to have a chance at moving it.
Lets say the Red Sox ate $50 million of the deal, would Price receive 3/$46 million if he were a free agent? No way.
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Just now, Jake said:
One potentially important difference between MadBum and Keuchel/Ryu is the draft pick compensation.
The Sox do not seem enamored with any of the available FA starting pitching right now. Reading between the lines I have my doubts we seriously pursue Keuchel or Ryu, and either look to made a trade or ink inexpensive stopgaps.
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3 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said:
They have to bring someone in. Saw a graphic on Twitter the other day that showed if they truly intend on starting Kopech in Charlotte, the Opening Day rotation is Giolito, Lopez, Cease, Covey, Fulmer. If they're not getting Ryu or trading for anyone significant, it might be a "development year and sign 2 potential bounce-back type arms and hope to catch lightning in a bottle in a trash division" type of year, which at this point, it may very well be (I don't want them giving up anything significant yet).
I'm fine going with one bargain bin type starter, but they must either trade for or sign at least one quality option.
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59 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:
https://sports.yahoo.com/mlb-trade-rumors-blue-jays-164528125.html
Sure, but we just traded for Mazara...so the need for a $10 million-ish backup left handed outfielder who will be a free agent in 2021 isn’t that great. Benintendi’s multiple years of control is the much better match.
Boston is crazy to think other teams would give up prospects for that (Price/JBJr) without at least $40 million going the other direction.
Agreed, both Boston and NYY would have to sweeten the deals to get teams to take Price/Happ off their hands.
Jackie Bradley Jr. for one season does not impact the trade all that much. A real asset like E Rodririguez or A Benintendi would have to be attached, along with money.
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1 hour ago, poppysox said:
Unless McCann or Collins are used in a trade...no reason to have Encarnacion since the DH position is already filled.
Encarnacion is a far better DH option than McCann/Collins at this stage. The 26 man roster allows keeping three catchers to be easier, but EE would be the first legitimate DH we have had in awhile. A one year deal for around $10-12 million should get it done.
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21 minutes ago, Wisebri224 said:
This game is not shopping at WalMart constantly.......you sometimes have to shop at the nice stores or you don't win the prize. We will NEVER get above a #4 starter here if there's not going to be an overpay. Pitching is valuable. Teams want the valuable commodity. All of this dreaming of 2 year deals at $10-$12 million per for 200 inning pitchers is a dreamland. Like I said earlier, if the Sox want to sign 4-5 lottery tickets and pray they scratch a winning card they can, but more often than not you will go 0/5 and end up with nothing. I don't like overpaying either, but again, they have cash, lots of it.....it doesn't hurt to overpay on one SP and not to the tune of $300 million but $80-$100. I'm done thinking WalMart shopping with this team. Let's at least get to Target
Teams regularly cobble together production out of less expensive players, it's called getting value.
Homer Bailey was paid $555K in 2019 and had a nearly 3 WAR season as an example.
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4 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:
Easier said than done, otherwise Price would be with a new team by now. Signing a one year guy should be easy though, if Hahn shows any interest in doing so anytime soon.
The more I think about it, I'm not sure if I even want an aging David Price on the Sox.
We would be stuck with three seasons of him at a likely substantial cost, why make that our problem? There are bargain bin players available that are younger and cheaper that could give us similar production.
Wade Miley to Cinci
in Pale Hose Talk
Posted
I’m trying hard to be patient, but each day more names get snapped up as the Sox sit there.
jeez I really hope they have a plan, because another offseason like 2019 and I will be leading the angry mob.