steveno89

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 18, 2017 -> 09:04 AM) Yeah that's more than twice what I would be comfortable with the WSox giving up Machado is projected to earn roughly $18 million in arbitration this season, worth it for him, but not a small chunk of change either. I can't see the Cubs parting with 4 seasons of Russell + Montgomery + a prospect for one season of Machado. The Red Sox package is steep too, twqo years of Boegarts + 4 seasons of ERod + a prospect I'm passing big time at these projected costs

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 18, 2017 -> 08:39 AM) Rosenthal’s latest article suggests a decision should be finalized before the end of the week. He also threw out a couple trade proposals that he thought made sense, but not necessarily based on anything he heard. Cubs - Russell, Montgomery, & a prospect Red Sox - Boagarts, Rodriguez/Pomeranz, & Chavis/Travis If the cost is going to be anything like the above, then we better be sitting this one out. I think both of those packages are absurd and if we offered anything comparable it would greatly reduce our prospect depth. A couple other interesting nuggets. Rosenthal mentioned from the outside the bidding for Machado seems less than frenzied, but acknowledged that’s only based on known information. He also believes the Cardinals do not want to trade another promising young starter and mentioned both Reyes & Flaherty, which would seem to make them a tough match with the Orioles. Those packages are nuts for a one year rental of Machado. Can't see the Cubs or Red Sox parting with that much talent.

QUOTE (Quin @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 05:31 PM) All I remember about Shingo was the awesome gong intro. Shingo's gong was amazing^

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 04:40 PM) Think of what the Sox had to give up for 1 year of Samardzija, and add some more. That is what their package must look like. I doubt Giolito or Kopech are in the offer, as that would be a big mistake for a rental. Giolito has the makings of a solid #3/4 starter at worst, with the potential for more. I am not giving him up for one season of Machado,

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 04:01 PM) Ive said it before, but if we strike out in FA, I think we should take on Hammel from the Royals. We'd have to give up nothing and he was bad last year but he has an arm and is a respected vet. Not a bad suggestion if we run out of decent choices. As recent as 2016 Tillman was a (Baseball Reference) 4.1 WAR pitcher. 2017 was a disaster, but I'd roll the dice on him bouncing back at age 30 No way I give him a multi year deal though

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 03:51 PM) It's been rumored all offseason, but Seibu has apparently formally submitted the paperwork to post their righty specialist, the submariner Makita. He's 33-years old. He sits mid-80's and doesn't strike a ton of guys out, but he's a groundball machine who doesn't walk anybody and he hasn't posted an ERA higher than last year's 2.30 since converting to the bullpen. He threw ~80- innings of 1.60 in 2016. Former Rookie of the Year starter. Looked pretty good against the US in the WBC. And our bullpen is sadness. Great candidate for some under-the-radar value, IMO, whether it's as a trade chip at the 2018 deadline or a useful and affordable piece of the 2019/2020 contender squad. http://tv.pacificleague.jp/vod/pc/topics/l...apacifico/23131 Maybe, but I feel like we have a ton of arms moving forward who should be given bullpen opportunities

QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 02:58 PM) Hope they sign Chris Tillman Tillman would be a solid veteran signing for one year

QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 13, 2017 -> 12:10 AM) Dick Allen, predict whether they'll be traded or not. You saw Hahn when he said it. Wouldn't you say 90 percent yes they'll be traded? 10 percent no, until the trade deadline? Jeff Passan‏Verified account @JeffPassan 3m3 minutes ago More The consensus on Carlos Santana's $60M deal with the Phillies: It bodes awfully well for free agent hitters. Santana is four years older than Eric Hosmer. A seven-year, $175M ask no longer seems beyond the pale. Good news for Logan Morrison and other available first basemen, too. Does this increase the chance of an Abreu deal?^

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 02:48 PM) Thinking the same thing with SD and Hosmer. This is a nice little deal for the Phillies. 3 years to a 31 year old with Santana's numbers is very reasonable. This deal really helps the market for other sluggers at the $20 million per valuation. Hosmer now absolutely will be looking for $150+ million.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 12:45 PM) If we have done our rebuild correctly we should not need 2-3 quality players as much as we would a top flight player. We've done the "needing to sign 3 quality players on the FA market" experience recently, we signed 3 in 2015. Robertson, Cabrera, LaRoche. That was nearly $40 million per year. Haven't we learned from this experience? The FA market is loaded with busts and if you sign 3 guys you expect 1 or 2. I was referring to players significantly better than those guys ($100+ million contract guys), not guys in the tier you referenced

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 12:39 PM) Any chance we could do a heavily front-loaded deal with an opt out after a few years? I just think the money might get to staggering amounts that the Sox will not feel comfortable going to. Mlbtraderumors guessed during a weekly chat Machado's deal ends up being $350-400 million over 10+ years on the open market. Is that something we really want to risk? We could theoretically sign 2-3 still very high quality players for that same money.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 12:21 PM) If you're locking him up for 10 years 300+ million there's no opt out. It would probably be a dealbreaker for me. Having an opt out at say 28 would be brutal. He'd almost assuredly take it and would leave the Sox holding all the downside risk on the deal and none of the upside. These opt outs are poison pills. I see no way he agrees to a deal without multiple opt outs and a full no trade clause. His contract will be all upside for him and all downside for the club signing him. If he gets seriously injured your club suffers for a decade.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 12:04 PM) There are other teams that plan on offering him the most cash as well. He’s going to be one of the most desired free agents in baseball history. I can’t believe you think it’s as simple as offering the most money when the Yankees & Dodgers will be involved. There will be multiple teams that likely end up in the same basic range by the end of the process. Again, his decision will likely come down to non-financial considerations. Our best bet of landing Machado is to form a bond with the player (this is more than just culture) and then be prepared to match any offer he receives. If we go in without that benefit, landing him is going to be an uphill battle. Left out of a ton of this conversation is whether it is a good idea for the White Sox franchise to pursue a free agent like Machado, who is predicted to end up with a $300-400 million contract over 10+ years. We all would love to have Machado, but I really wonder if it is in the club's best interest to sign a player to mega money for 10+ years, full NTC, multiple opt outs, etc. It looks like a great idea now, but paying a player $30-40 million when he is over ago 30 might not look so good. Thoughts?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 10:02 AM) I know Fulmer's peripherals weren't great last year, but he also had some decent big league performances. If you gave up Gavin Floyd after 2007 for a rental, and the team wasn't competitive in 2008, and the rental left, same rule? Whole thread still remains bewildering for this reason. In all honesty I still believe that Fulmer can develop at the mlb level and be solid. Flipping any of these young pitchers is a mistake, especially since you can never have too much pitching. We will be counting on these arms to bring us a championship moving forward.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 09:56 AM) I think I could stomach something like one of Cease/Dunning and one of Guerrero/Stephens and like a low-level prospect. Cease is a guy I would hesitate to toss away in a trade. He has dealt with injuries and needs to build up his innings, but his stuff is legitimate mlb quality. He's a player I could see us regretting dealing too soon and could be primed for a breakout with his plus plus fastball and plus power curveball. If he can't handle starting he certainly has the stuff to be a setup man or closer. Dunning is a guy who profiles as a solid #4 starter in the majors who can eat a ton of innings for you. That is still a valuable player.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 09:54 AM) If you gave up a guy who in 3 years was a #2 starter for a guy you paid $17 million to in a contract year where your team only won 75 games and then had that guy walk as a free agent, that should be a firing offense for a GM. That's why I would be open to a trade, but the following players are off limits: Eloy/Kopech/Moncada/Giolito/Lopez/Hansen/Robert/Cease/Dunning/Collins They can select from: Fulmer, Adams, Stephens, etc. tier for a rental. Do they accept that? Probably not, but I absolutely refuse to surrender top prospects for one meaningless season of Machado.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 09:53 AM) He easily could come fast. I personally expect him to reach AA by the end of 2018. I think that’s where he’ll finally be challenged a bit, so 2020 seems like a pretty realistic ETA although 2019 wouldn’t completely shock me. Man, how reassuring would it be to see Robert do very well in the low minors in 2018? Sox might aggressively start him in high A ball to accelerate his path to the majors, but I ultimately think they let him get his feet wet in Kannapolis for a bit first.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 09:45 AM) Dan Duquette is pretty bright, but they are a bit ass backwards there. If they have to fly back to Baltimore to discuss it with the owner, haven't they heard of phones? They aren't exactly new. It's a weird thing. If the White Sox aren't trading at least one of their top guys, if I am them, I am telling them to go scratch. I doubt teams are trading their top guys for a one year rental though, especially the White Sox. It would be criminal to give up a player like Kopech in a deal for one season of Machado with the cost of starting pitching. Anything better than a Cease/Dunning level prospect would be a mistake in my opinion, and I do not love the idea of dealing either of those players as well. I get the "extended sales pitch" idea, but what is that worth in terms of our prospects?

QUOTE (SonofaRoache @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 05:32 PM) Cubs would trade Russell for pitching in a heartbeat. Not with Machado on a 1 year contract they wouldn't^

QUOTE (shipps @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 05:26 PM) Dave definitely gets some good intel but I highly doubt he has something that big before everyone else and is only sitting on it to bring out on his podcast in a few hours. But...maybe he is getting good intel that its reeeeeeally close? Once the eyeballs start getting big on twitter that's when you know s*** might hit the fan

QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 04:57 PM) If you are a contender, sure you could do that. Mortgaging the future for a one-year wonder who could lead you to the promised land. The Cubs actually should do what it takes to get him. Gut the remaining portion of the farm for Machado. He'd probably be what they need to win another WS. Cubs have nowhere to play Machado with Bryant at third, Russell/Baez at short

QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 04:52 PM) Why? Because you are getting a guy for one year and we are not contending this year. Cmon. He's not going to sign with the White Sox. Of that I am 100 percent sure. To give up 4-5 young alleged can't miss studs we acquired through deals for one year of Manny makes no sense at all. This is like keeping Sale or Q when we were gutting the team. That also would have made no sense. If you are gutting the team you don't add a one-year wonder. It's ridiculous. Folks ... Machado will not be signing with the White Sox. He will be a free agent who will receive an epic contract. He's not going to sign now just because he's afraid he's going to suddenly suck during his season afore free agency. Makes zero sense for a rebuilding team. Now next offseason, sure try to sign him, make your offer, but folks I don't believe in Santa or the Tooth Fairy. In modern day baseball, Jerry and the partners do not sign Manny Machado 10 years 300 to 500 million. I will say for a fact that Machado will not get $500 million over 10 years...that is totally absurd. Right now the highest paid player in the mlb is Clayton Kershaw @ $33 million per year. Right now Harper/Machado are expected to land contracts in the $350-400 million range.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 04:40 PM) How does it make any sense that the two best offers are Cards and Sox? Those clubs couldn't be further apart in their windows. The "calculated risk" is that you try to court Machado in 2018, and get a better look at a player before deciding whether you want to invest $300+ million in him or not. If you do not feel like he will resign with you, then you absolutely flip him at the deadline to the highest bidder to recoup what you gave away to acquire him. If I am Machado I certainly am interested in getting to free agency, but I would be interested in hearing what a team that just traded for me would offer in terms of an extension. He's getting a mega deal no matter what, but a down season or injury might impact how much he ends up getting.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 04:14 PM) Perhaps...but it really makes you wonder what the Sox offer could be. Maybe something like Cease or Fulmer, Adams and Stephens. Gives BAL a few arms that are MLB ready or not terribly far away from the majors without really hurting the Sox all the much. A deal like that I could get behind, and I could see it being something the Sox offered just to see where they stood. With what the Fish received for Stanton/Ozuna/Gordon, they didn't exactly set up a seller's market, so maybe an offer like that actually does get the Sox to the table for 1 year of MM. With only one season of control remaining I can't see teams being willing to move their top guys for Machado. Jimenez/Kopech/Robert are 100% off limits Giolito or Lopez could be in play, although I'd prefer to keep both Fulmer, Cease, Adams, Stephens, Dunning could be on the table

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 04:06 PM) I think the White Sox are just playing Pricing Cop to make sure nobody gets him cheap. They're probably legitimately surprised that they're considered a high bidder. I can't decide if the White Sox genuinely want to acquire Machado, or if this is all to drive the price up? I'm leaning towards they do badly want him and are trying a creative method of courtship beyond just the money involved. A full season to show and convince him that this is the organization he wants to spend his career in could be compelling? Especially when some of our young talent like Kopech/Jimenez/Hansen/etc. start to emerge. We have plenty of firepower in the pipeline to try and sell him on a future contender. Hahn basically said that the team expects to spend like a drunken sailor next offseason to build a winner.