steveno89

QUOTE (fredmanrique @ Dec 8, 2017 -> 11:50 AM) It does feel like posturing before next week a bit. I wonder if the biggest prospect we could get is Rodgers in Colorado with the thought being he could be 3b for the next decade. Abreu and Avi and take on that Desmond deal. What does that unlock? Rodgers, Pint +? That's a lot for cashing our last chips in considering our control on abreu and avi is in seasons we arent contenders and they would have a stacked lineup in Colorado with dahl/blackmon/avi/arenado/story/lemahieu/abreu/lucroy if they bring him back if taking back Desmond nets us two top 50 guys, one in the top 10, I say go for it. you could argue they should also include McMahon and/or more in that hypothetical I want no part of Desmond and his contract^ We are building a contender here, and Desmond absolutely would run counter to doing so as he is under contract through 2021 (well into our window). Rodgers + Pint + Desmond + for Abreu and Avi would be a bad trade for the White Sox in my opinion

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Dec 8, 2017 -> 11:43 AM) To me the comparison is Covey - they kept him but not Guerrero. But I've been trying to figure out the Sox strategy. All I can think of is that they want a lot of room (more than 5 spots) on the 40 man for maneuvering. If this assumption is true, they could have protected him from Rule 5, but would have had to waive him later anyway. Better to expose him to Rule 5 than to outright waive him. There is a decent chance he gets picked by a contender that is just grabbing up some lottery tickets for its last arm in the pen, in which case there is a good chance that he would be returned anyway. I doubt any team rolls with Guerrero as a starting pitcher in 2018 since he has yet to pitch above AA ball. I hope he somehow slips through the rule five draft and we can stash him in AAA.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Dec 7, 2017 -> 05:21 PM) I think Abreu eventually gets traded. There is no real good reason to sign him to an extension as the team has control of him through the rest of his prime. Extending him beyond his age 33 season seems like a bad idea when you take into account his history of injury and the likelihood of decline from that point forward. Once the Stanton deal is done, teams will move on to Abreu as he is the most interesting RH power bat remaining on the market. Agreed^ Which is why I'm on the trade Abreu and Avi train so long as the return is solid. Once the Ohtani/Stanton hammer falls the market should open up. Remember, trades can come together under the radar and very quickly, especially at the winter meetings. The Sox have been very non-committal about Abreu and Avi long term...read between the lines and it tells you everything.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Dec 7, 2017 -> 04:52 PM) I'd give him 5/$90m right now and just start calling him the next Konerko. He can decline with us, that's fine. He'll be at least a useful DH all the way through that. I get the feeling that Hahn and Co. do not want to be in the business of paying a mid 30's first baseman retail money like that. The only way I would sign him to an extension is if he takes a substantial discount to stay with the White Sox. 5/90 or 4/80 is not what I would consider to be a substantial discount by any means. Abreu is not getting any younger, and giving a 33 year old Abreu three more guaranteed years is not necessarily a wise decision.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 7, 2017 -> 03:31 PM) Why would he want to sign onto that deal? His advisors would basically say “Jose, the risk you avoid by signing this is absolutely minimal. There is very little upside to you signing a 4 year extension at the juncture.” He’s basically saying he’s concerned he won’t be able to sign a two year deal when his contract with us runs out? Very true. To all the "extend Abreu" advocates, you are assuming that he will accept what boils down to a two year extension. I have my doubts about that. If Abreu asked for a 5 year extension, would you give it to him? That would give me serious pause.

QUOTE (WestSuburbanSox @ Dec 7, 2017 -> 03:23 PM) Let me clarify then. A deep team of above average ball players with a handful of stars is not what we have had over the past 7 or 8 years. We have had a handful of stars and a complete lack of a deep team. If we actually want to contend, we need to open up the checkbook and invest in several key free agents eventually. A deep team of average players won't get us through the AL in the playoffs. Look at what any serious contender has done lately, especially the Astros and Cubs in order to win.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 7, 2017 -> 01:38 PM) I'm not so sure anymore. Look at Encarnacion. He was a better hitter turning the same age as Abreu would be. 3 for 60, team option for 4th. So we are haggling over the potential of a 5th year worth probably 20 million. So we are either maybe paying abreu 20 million in 2022 or paying some other similar player at that time. The situation really won't be that bad. I'm much more worried about not having a bullpen when we get competitive than not finding a good 1b. The mlb is full of sluggers in their mid 30's looking for a final payday. I don't expect that to change. If and when the Sox decide to keep Abreu, I'm confident it wouldn't take too long to get a deal done. I just don't know if they think he will be on the roster in 2020.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 7, 2017 -> 01:43 PM) Getting traded would be bad because I imagine anyone trading for him would open up their checkbook to sign him. Machado has no reason to not play this season out and select where he wants to sign next offseason. I wouldn't worry if he got traded, but I'd prefer he were dealt during the season so there would be no draft compensation attached. I don't love giving up a second round pick if we wouldn't have to

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2017 -> 01:27 PM) MLB Trade Rumors‏ @mlbtraderumors 7m7 minutes ago Cubs Sign Tyler Chatwood https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/12/cubs-sign-tyler-chatwood.html …://https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017...chatwood.html …://https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017...chatwood.html … Wow, over $13 million per year for a #5 starting pitcher. Front end/mid rotation guys should ask for the moon.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2017 -> 01:10 PM) We can only have five starting pitchers at the major league level. Some of these guys will only have a road to the majors through the bullpen. If we can't fill five starters through the rebuild, we are pretty well f***ed. Cease could be a guy fast tracked to the majors if we wanted to stick him in the bullpen, but I think the organization would prefer to develop him as a starter for now. You can never have too much pitching, I'm not worried.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 7, 2017 -> 01:09 PM) We should be able to afford it but is that a game you really want to play? If we don't have an experienced backup and we make a strong bid for Abreu and someone outbids us...suddenly we are trying to win the world series with a scrap heap 1b. Saying "Oh we can extend this guy in 2 years" is, especially for Abreu, a low reward, high risk move. If we wait, are we going to either save money or somehow find better production? There's a good chance we can keep him and keep his production, but if he walks, it would dramatically damage what should be the top team in the league for 2020. If he won't extend now, then he's telling you he wants to play the FA market and him walking is a real risk. Give him a fair offer and find out. If he's insistent that he's going to play the FA market, that's his right, but we should assume there's a real chance of us trying to replace our cleanup hitter rather than trying to build a title contender. You are assuming that there will not be other options on the market though or via trade. I respect Abreu, but first base is not the toughest position to fill. By that point Abreu might be transitioning to DH mainly too. Him becoming a free agent essentially would free $20 million from our books, giving us flexibility. Hypothetically if Abreu starts to decline we would be happy we did not extend him into our competitive window and could use his salary for other things.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 7, 2017 -> 12:57 PM) Gonna be honest, I don't see the FA market for 33 year old right handed sluggers being unaffordable in two years especially with where the sox will likely be at payroll. Exactly^ Why not evaluate then if we need to resign Abreu? It's not like we wouldn't be able to afford him at age 33. I just don't think we need to extend him now.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 7, 2017 -> 12:00 PM) If some of the youngsters who are "maybe" folks on the rotation, like Cease, Danish, and Adams, wind up being in the bullpen by 2019 - it could turn around pretty quick. Edit: Oh, and as of right now I think there's a nonzero chance we could see Rodon out there for a stint in 2018, with how shoulder injuries go. Cease is still being groomed as a starting pitcher until he proves he can't be. Danish and Adams don't have the pure plus stuff to be effective out of the bullpen (they are too hittable). Fulmer might do better transitioning to the bullpen, but I'd still give him the chance to start in 2018 first. Burdi might not pitch until 2019 or late 2018, but I think he will be solid.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Dec 7, 2017 -> 11:30 AM) I actually agree with this. I'm usually not big on the whole leadership thing but him and Moncada seem to have a legit bond and having him here while Yoan grows up a bit isn't the worst thing in the world. Don't get me wrong, if we can get a huge deal for him or if he we can extend him at a good rate then please do but I'm not going to flip out if he's here for the next 2 years and then bolts. Keeping him isn't a terrible thing, although $35 - 40 million over two seasons isn't exactly a cheap veteran to keep around for a rebuilding club. If it comes down to accepting a mediocre offer for the sake of trading him, I'd much rather keep him and ride the two seasons out. If things start to click in 2019, we might be happy to still have him?

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Dec 7, 2017 -> 11:12 AM) It'll be either really interesting or totally boring. Maybe Sox sign a reliever or another signing that surprises us all . Sox won't be able to fill holes all in one or 2 off season in preparation for the contending years so it's possible we see more surprise signings. I predict a Swarzak signing. Don't expect a Carlos Gonzales signing. Just too Adam LaRoche-ish for my taste . I think CF need will be next thing Sox address outside of relief pitching. Only way Carlos Gonzalez happens is if he's willing to take a one year deal as I don't think teams will be keen on going multi years after his rapid decline. He was a below replacement level player this year and will likely have to take a 1 year deal to try and reestablish value. Relievers in our price range will be hanging around in January waiting for a phone call or spring training invite. I don't expect us to shell out much dough or go multi year with free agents this offseason.

QUOTE (GermanSock @ Dec 7, 2017 -> 06:30 AM) yes, especially with the mlb ball he could develope some Pop and hit 15+ bombs per year eventually. however with his size there is a Chance the power doesn't come and while some think he can Play SS there are not a lot of college SS playing short in the Majors anyway and especially not if they played another Position (most MLB SSs are HS or international Players since the top athletic talents who can Play short and hit usually don't make the Majors). that could drop him out of the top5, although I could see a Team taking him early because there is a low bust potential. the pitchers going high might be a good Thing for the sox who really Need a shortstop prospect since one of turang or de sedas will likely still be on the board when they pick. now they could go with another Player and even a pitcher if they think he is clearly BPA, but if several are perceived similar I think they could go with the organisational Need at SS. Sox are probably looking for an up the middle high school talent, but I wouldn't rule out them selecting a college arm that could potentially fast track to the majors either.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Dec 6, 2017 -> 11:52 PM) ha, this is such a farce really. Clubs should be forced to pay much more for him. Is there a reason that Ohtani did not try to come over in the last international free agent class where he could have gotten paid a mega contract?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 6, 2017 -> 10:51 AM) Just for laughs... http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?s=...t&p=3453142 It's funny how after an incredible season none of us are sold on Avi and can't wait to deal him for the first acceptable offer. Great move to sign him for $3 million and give him that final shot

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 6, 2017 -> 03:20 PM) How exactly does that revert from rebuilding? It doesn't give up any of the precious assets they've acquired. The pitching additions are needed. I suspect the Sox sign at least 1 reliever to a MLB deal. Rondon would fit the bill. I would assume there would be mutual interest between the Sox and Swarzak if his price tag doesn't get too high. The bullpen needs a lot of work. The Sox are going to need another rotation option with Rodon on the shelf until at least June and Kopech not quite ready. Perhaps they go for more of the scrapheap type over more middle of the road MLB starters like Garcia or Cashner, but its not like those guys are going to break the bank. The positional players are more of a stretch. But we know KW has always liked CarGo. Maybe they decide to go with Gillaspie or a rotating DH, which I am not against, but its not like there isn't room in the lineup for a veteran bat to plug in at DH on a 1 year deal. CF is a disaster. I personally think they'll let Leury have the job and put Delmonico in LF (which again I am fine with), but adding a real CF, and shifting Leury to LF and Delmonico into a LF/DH/1B/3B utility role wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. Again...just spitballing. Signing 5-6 guys would have 40 man roster implications as well. I just don't see the need for the Sox to spend any significant money in free agency on a 90+ loss 2018 team. Rule five draft, under the radar one year deals and giving younger players an opportunity is in the cards for us

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 6, 2017 -> 03:02 PM) I think I made it pretty clear that I was just spitballing. And I disagree heavily that the Sox wouldn't improve over 2017 with that roster. Good enough to compete with the Indians? Probably not. But who the hell thought the Twins were this past season? They don't give up any of the future by doing this. Payroll would still be below $100M. If the Sox operate with like a $60-65M payroll next season, I am far from convinced that the $40-50M saved over their average payroll of the past decade is going to just be "saved" for the next few seasons. As for Brantley, I forgot the Indians picked up his option...go ahead and put Carlos Gomez in there instead (though I'd prefer Brantley if he were available). Sox tried the "catch lightning in a bottle with a patchwork team" strategy for years and got nowhere, I don't think they revert from rebuilding yet. Even if we were to get lucky and slip into the wild card, that bullpen is not getting us out of the first round of the playoffs.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 6, 2017 -> 02:50 PM) I don't in anyway expect the Sox to do it, but it'd be a fun to see them drop some $$ on short term deals and try to be decent. Carlos Gonzalez - 1 Year - $10M Michael Brantley - 2 Years - $17M Andrew Cashner or Jaimie Garcia - 2 Year - $18M Hector Rondon - 2 Year - $11M Anthony Swarzak - 2 years - $10M Howie Kendrick - 1 year - $7M Lineup: Michael Brantley CF Yolmer Sanchez 3B Yoan Moncada 2B Jose Abreu 1B Carlos Gonzalez DH Avi Garcia RF Leury Garcia LF Welington Castillo C Tim Anderson SS BN: Kendrick, Delmonico, Narvaez, Engel Rotation: Giolito, Lopez, Cashner/Garcia, Fulmer, Shields (Rodon over Shields when healthy, Fulmer to pen when Kopech is ready) BP: Rondon, Swarzak, Jones, Farquhar, Minaya, Infante, Vieria, Bummer That could be a pretty decent team, doesn't hamstring them at all for the future, and if things don't go well, can still trade Avi and Abreu, in addition to the new arrivals. Again, this isn't really a prediction as I doubt the Sox go this directio, but I wouldn't be against seeing something like this. Why would the Sox do any of that? Also Brantly is not a free agent. Even with those moves we still will not be a much better team in 2018 than in 2017. Cleveland has a stanglehold on the division, and I don't see that roster being capable of 85+ wins to get a wildcard. We want payroll flexibility going into next offseason with the best free agent class in a decade.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 6, 2017 -> 10:58 AM) TBH, I don't worry about a skill set like Abreu's as much as I do one who is built on defense and/or speed. Guys who profile like Abreu are better bets to keep on hitting. I put him more into the JD Martinez/Melky camp. The possibility of extension is our leverage in trade negotiations, as we could keep Abreu unless we get a good return. That does not mean we necessarily have to extend him, just that we have a year to make that choice.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 6, 2017 -> 10:46 AM) I think if we put a decent 3 to 5 year deal in front of him, he would sign it. Everything you hear is how much he likes it here, and how much he is liked here. Even if his bat fades at the end of a deal, his money wouldn't cripple the team where they would be in the rebuild and overall salary structure. Plus even if he does fade, he is still like having another coach on the bench and the kids seem to love him. I think the front office is smart enough to realize paying retail for a mid 30's first baseman is not a great idea.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 6, 2017 -> 10:18 AM) Then the only question I have left to ask is...what are you going to do to make sure Abreu doesn't walk after 2019? I shop him hard this offseason (and Avi), but would be prepared to not trade him if the right deal does not present itself. Ideal situation is that we find a trade fit for both of them soon. If trades do not happen we revisit trying to deal each of them at the deadline or next offseason.

QUOTE (Dam8610 @ Dec 6, 2017 -> 10:32 AM) I'd rather not lose the 2nd round pick. I'd rather have the second round pick as well. Moustakas isn't that good.