steveno89

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Dec 1, 2017 -> 12:19 PM) And that's exactly why it makes more sense to keep/extend him. The return isn't worth what we'd be losing. Right now I have settled in the try to trade Abreu and Avi camp, although I could change my opinion. I just feel that a rebuilding club like ours should not be spending large amounts of money when we are going to likely not compete in 2018 and 2019 anyway. We need to stockpile as much young talent as possible and have complete payroll flexibility moving forward into our "window" from 2020-2024 theoretically. I love Abreu, but I get the feeling the organization would prefer to deal him for a solid return instead of an extension.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Dec 1, 2017 -> 12:02 PM) That deal would really be a disappointment, for me. Very underwhelming. I'll bet that doesn't get it done. I think we need to be realistic and not expect a return on the levels of Sale/Eaton/Quintana. Abreu is a great middle of the order bat, but with only two seasons of control teams will not be willing to empty out the farm when they can sign a Hosmer or Santana for only cash. I would be shocked if the Sox were offered a top 40 overall in mlb prospect for two seasons of Abreu.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Dec 1, 2017 -> 11:49 AM) Yeah Magneuris Sierra is a leadoff profile with elite level defense in CF. Flaherty and Sierra would probably be a nice deal for Sox. I'd be interested in a Flaherty + Sierra + Oviedo for Abreu deal. The cost is reasonable for the impact a bat like Abreu's would have on the Cardinals. Flaherty would get a chance at a rotation spot right away in 2018, and Sierra would get a chance in CF. Oviedo would be young pitching depth with upside.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Dec 1, 2017 -> 11:34 AM) Don't know if this was posted here, but Heyman said on the radio yesterday that the Cardinals and Rockies were the other teams who were talking Abreu with us Jason Martinez of mlbtraderumors had this to say: "Zamboni 5:44 Flaherty and Sierra get it done for the Cards for Abreu Jason Martinez 5:45 I'd say one of their top pitching prospects, one of their best OF prospects and maybe one low-level guy with high upside. So Flaherty/Sierra could be in the vicinity of what it would take."

QUOTE (ChiSoxJon @ Dec 1, 2017 -> 10:44 AM) Only way I'm moving Abreu (who I hope isn't moved and is here for the long run) is in exchange for Groome, Chavis, and a third piece (not happening) Maybe it's just me, but I am not all that high on any of the Red Sox current prospects (not considering Devers a prospect anymore). Groome and Chavis each have significant bust risk, and many scouts seem to think Houck ends up in the bullpen. If I am dealing Abreu the offer would have to be very strong and make sense long term.

QUOTE (ChiliIrishHammock24 @ Dec 1, 2017 -> 03:23 AM) Throwing some offers out there.... From Red Sox: 3B Michael Chavis (BOS #2, MLB #92), OF Cole Brannen (BOS #9), RHP Bryan Mata (BOS #14) From Rockies: 3B Colton Welker (COL #4), C Tom Murphy (COL #9), LHP Ben Bowden (COL #16) Both of those offers feel light for Abreu. I'd rather keep him if that was all that was on the table.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 30, 2017 -> 01:22 PM) I think you'd have to be willing to guarantee the fifth year. 5/$100mm is fair. I would not feel comfortable signing Abreu to a 5/100 extension right now, especially with him being on the wrong side of 30. He's a quality player, but why pay full retail now? The Sox are in a position where they absolutely should have a high asking price for him because it is only a two year guaranteed contract. Something around a 4 year/70 million deal with a 5th year team option could be doable. There's just not much incentive to pay more than that for him though. Sox are playing this the right way, listening in on Avi/Abreu but holding a high price.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Nov 29, 2017 -> 05:36 PM) I put in a thoughtful post with Jose's stats the last 4 seasons and still get blasted. Hard to go against the group and not get roasted. I wish you guys would be like most team's fans and rip the front office more. What have they done since 2005 to earn patience from our fan base? I am not of the opinion our young guys have to suck a year or two before we are competitive. Folks, baseball is full of mediocre to bad teams. Why not us sooner rather than later to ... win? Put some heat on the front office to develop a bullpen. Nobody is saying Joise hasn't been a quality player for us, he absolutely has. With only two more seasons of control remaining, it might be prudent to shop him for younger talent though is what many fans on soxtalk are suggesting. Nobody is running Jose out of town, but sometimes tough decisions must be made to have a successful rebuild. We want this team primed and ready to compete in the future. With regards to your bullpen comment, how the heck can we just go out and create a quality mlb bullpen? We need to develop young players from within and supplement with a few outside acquisitions over time. We will emerge as free agent players after 2018 with plenty of money to spend, especially if Abreu/Avi are off the books

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 29, 2017 -> 11:09 AM) I'm in. I'd do it too. I don't think Rodon has much trade value with all the injury issues. Our best bet is to let him rehab and come back.

QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Nov 29, 2017 -> 05:25 PM) http://mlb.mlb.com/r/article?ymd=20171129&...os&c_id=bos From Boston red Sox MLB site Any Boston fan that thinks Travis has trade value at this point is crazy. A 24 year old, weak hitting 1B/DH prospect is not valuable.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 29, 2017 -> 05:17 PM) Everyone has a price. He should be listening to teams on Moncada and Kopech and Eloy too. Would have to imagine that Jimenez and Kopech's values would be sky high right now after their fantastic finishes to 2017. We caught the Cubs at the right time in the middle of their window when they really needed Quintana. I'm not saying it was not a good deal for the Cubs, but Jimenez has all the looks of a guy who can develop into a franchise player.

QUOTE (shipps @ Nov 29, 2017 -> 04:49 PM) Fangraphs warns Sawks to not trade JBJ for Abreu. https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/dont-trade-...for-jose-abreu/ Over the last three years, Bradley and Abreu have produced roughly equivalent WAR totals despite Bradley getting 600 fewer plate appearances. Abreu’s clearly a better hitter, but there’s a huge gap in baserunning value, so the offensive difference has only been about worth 10 runs per 600 PAs, and Bradley’s outstanding defense in center field is clearly worth more than Abreu’s mediocre defense at first base. Bradley’s WAR isn’t inflated by some huge UZR numbers either; in fact, the public perception is that Bradley is more valuable defensively than our fielding numbers suggest. I get what Cameron is saying, but the argument could be made that the Red Sox deal JBJ for Abreu and sign a player like Austin Jackson to play CF for a reasonable amount. That would greatly lessen the blow of losing JBJ, and provide a huge upgrade for the middle of the order. I think other clubs like the Rockies or even Cardinals might match up better on an Abreu deal though

QUOTE (35thstreetswarm @ Nov 29, 2017 -> 04:29 PM) I agree it would not be impossible, and in fact am finding it harder and harder to understand why it's obvious that 2019 will be a true rebuilding year. Help me out with the timetable here--because I want to believe 2020 is the year to circle on my calendar if for no other reason than to protect my psyche from disappointment. The cornerstones of our rebuild are the top assets acquired in the Sale/Eaton/Q trades plus Robert (and maybe Hansen), right? (I know there are other quality prospects, but that's the top tier.) Well, three of those guys are already up. Two (Kopech and Jimenez) seem likely to be up by next year, no matter what the brass says about Eloy. Hell, even Hansen could find his way up next year. That could leave only Robert as a high-profile prospect who won't be up in 2018, let alone 2019. Why exactly is the 2019 team supposed to struggle, especially if Abreu and Garcia stick around and produce? Is the assumption that team will struggle with these newcomers for multiple big league seasons why the youngsters go through growing pains? I guess that's possible, though it's not really how I've seen it work with other recent rebuilds. The Cubs, for example, were off and running once Bryant and Russell arrived. It's more likely that 2019 is a rebuilding year than for us to be competitive right now. Our young prospects would have to come up and be terrific. Our bullpen is currently in shambles, and it could take two seasons to fix that. Nothing is certain in our rotation right now, as Rodon cannot stay healthy and Giolito/Lopez still have questions to answer.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 29, 2017 -> 04:01 PM) It is interesting to see people coming around on the idea that the window really isn't going to be there for 2019, but more like 2020 or even 2021 in this case. 2019 was always a best case scenario, and I think fans are ready to accept that 2018 and 2019 are rebuilding years...with the focus being on 2020 onwards. It would not be impossible to be a significantly improved team by 2019 if our young talent steps up though.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Nov 29, 2017 -> 03:56 PM) Why does that turn you off when it's more control than we have of Jose? I certainly understand wanting to hang onto Abreu but this seems like an odd reason to be turned off by JBJ. JBJ is a turn off because we are unlikely to contend in 2018, and 2019 is best case scenario for contention. That just leaves 2020 as JBJ's final year under contract when we plan to contend. If we are dealing Abreu I think the consensus is that we should target longer term assets that are cost controlled. I don't think Boston is a great fit in that regard.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Nov 29, 2017 -> 12:35 PM) I don't get the Chaves love... as a secondary piece for Abreu - hell yea... but not as the centerpiece... to me that would be too light. Can someone enlighten me please? I don't understand the Chavis or Groome love either^ Chavis is not a good defensive player at third base and might have to move off the position. He has pop, but I'm just not sold on his big 2017 due to him putting up huge numbers in A+ ball. He really came back to earth after the AA promotion. Groome does not really fit what we need. Sure, he has upside, but has yet to prove anything professionally. I wouldn't deal Abreu if either of these players were was the centerpiece. As a second piece, different story.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 29, 2017 -> 11:42 AM) They dont have the chips. I might agree with you. I just don't like what the Red Sox system offers right now. Chavis is not a good enough prospect in my opinion to headline a deal, as there are defensive questions with him at 3B (.911 fielding percentage is not great at A+/AA). He has power, but I'm not sold since his numbers took a considerable hit after his promotion to AA. Outside of pedigree, Groome has not done much to prove himself professionally yet. He seems to have talent, but he's way too risky to headline a potential Abreu deal at this point. Right now I do not see a fit

QUOTE (TheTruth05 @ Nov 29, 2017 -> 11:35 AM) Groome + JBJ? I'd honestly hate to lose Jose. Boston's farm appears to be pretty weak right now. Devers is not going anywhere, but pretty much anyone else would have to be considered fair game I would imagine?

QUOTE (mac9001 @ Nov 27, 2017 -> 07:38 PM) I'm probably more bullish on him than Collins. If he stops hitting I may change my mind but he hasn't yet. I watched him absolutely crush a few balls in WS this year. There's not many people on the planet that can launch the way he did on a few of those balls. It will be interesting to see how they deploy Zavala and Collins in 2018, as I think both deserve to be getting regular reps in AA. Collins has better pedigree, but it's tough to ignore how good of a season Seby had in 2017, especially down the stretch in Winston Salem.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Nov 29, 2017 -> 09:57 AM) Where did the idea of JBJ or Abreu even come from? I haven't seen that suggested anywhere other than this site. Right before I mentioned that I would not want to deal any significant prospects for JBJ, and I don't like the fit of an Avi or Abreu to Boston deal if JBJ is the main piece coming back is what I meant. Basically I don't see a JBJ deal happening.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 28, 2017 -> 11:52 AM) I don't agree that Garcia is a "Higher reward" guy as JBJ was a 5 win player 2 years ago. With his defense and the position he plays, he does not have to be an elite hitter to be a 5 win player. I would agree that Garcia is "higher risk" because Garcia has been a solid player for 1 season in his career while JBJ has been a solid player for more than 1 year. If Garcia is an elite offensive player the next 2 years, then you're convinced he's actually an elite offensive player and has broken out. I'll agree with you on that^ I don't really see JBJ being a good fit for the White Sox right now. With only three seasons of control remaining (his more expensive arbitration years too) I would not be inclined to part with significant prospects for him. 2018 and likely 2019 are not our window to compete, wasting most of the time he would be under contract. If I am dealing Avi or Abreu I would want younger, cost controlled players in return.

QUOTE (bmags @ Nov 23, 2017 -> 09:52 AM) It was more how his body filled out than his numbers. Bad weight/conditioning questions right? I don’t think he is viewed anywhere near as highly as he was in the spring.

QUOTE (ChiliIrishHammock24 @ Nov 23, 2017 -> 01:10 AM) "reclamation project" seems unreasonable premature. The dude was 17 years old in rookie ball, 3 years younger than the average rookie baller. Too soon to write maitan off because of how young he is, but he’s also not a guy on a fast track to the major leagues either. Mediocre rookie ball numbers at age 17 are acceptable, but I’d drop him out of the top 100 prospects until he shows more.

QUOTE (Wanne @ Nov 21, 2017 -> 01:04 PM) lol...yeah. I'd love it even more if he ended up in St Loo... Arrieta seems like a case of a player wanting to get paid for past performance instead of what the future likely holds. He's a solid pitcher, but he likely peaked in 2015/2016. I'd be nervous going beyond 4 years on a pitcher who will be 32 on opening day 2018, and that has shown signs of regression.

QUOTE (bmags @ Nov 21, 2017 -> 12:41 PM) No, Robert was 2016, sox are restricted this year (2017). White sox have signed 2 players in this period that we know of. Sounds like a few teams with bonus pool money left will stand to benefit from the Braves cheating. Prospects benefit as well since they get to keep bonus money and double dip.