steveno89

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 11:55 AM) The Houston #Astros were involved in talks for Quintana, but never came close to offering the package the #Cubs offered to the #Whitesox --Nightengale SO glad to be done pining for the Astros to like what we had. Hope they fail now (even though i like so much of what theyve done) Screw the Astros. I'm thrilled with this return.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 11:51 AM) I can't get over one thing, and it's kind of bitter sweet fortune but it is fortune: There are a bunch of teams on the precipice of tear down rebuilds in Blue Jays/Giants/Tigers/Pirates and Royals. Not this year but next 2 years. We obviously had some special, signed pieces BUT We were offloading with the best pieces at a time when we were the ONLY team doing it, and during a time where the top contenders also had the top farms (due to their rebuild). Those contenders have basically exhausted their top guys, all to the white sox. The tigers/etc are going to have to offload with the next group of rising teams which happen to be much more mid-market. They may be more like Pirates, who will be stuck in needing to consistently fill their MLB team with cheap talent, and can't rely on big budgets for their holes. We struck at a really, really good time. Let's hope it panned out! It's not done yet, but I am INCREDIBLY impressed with what Rick Hahn and Co. have been able to accomplish in the past 12 months. Outside of trading Tatis Jr. they have totally revamped our farm system and future outlook. We are arguably the envy of the entire mlb young talent wise, and look to be a major force in a few years. We look like the Cubs and Astros did a few years ago. Finish more trades, tank this season big time. The future is bright.

QUOTE (pablo @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 11:41 AM) We were all drooling over the thought of getting Acuna or Maitan from the Braves only to be shot down by a few Braves posters (thanks for participating!) that it wan't going to happen. Well we might have just done better than either of them. Jimenez is by far the best prospect that was offered to the White Sox. Prospects like him only get traded in major blockbusters. I'm thrilled with this return. It's as much as Sox fans could have possibly hoped for.

QUOTE (BamaDoc @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 11:35 AM) Honest question....I had proposed Happ and Candelario. Which return is better? I liked them as I saw less risk as one MLB other AAA Jimenez has the potential to be an absolute stud. Could be a middle of the order power bat, potential allstar.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 10:48 AM) There goes our chances at the Wild Card WOW WOW WOW WOW Did not think this would happen, but a great trade for the White Sox Jimenez is a blue chip prospect and Cease has plenty of upside. Don't know much about the throw in guys, but we have to view this as the best deal possible. We got 85-90% of what we got for Sale.

QUOTE (oneofthemikes @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 09:41 AM) I can't believe we got sucked in again. This happened every two weeks or so from December to April and we fell for it EVERY SINGLE TIME. I feel like we should really know better by now. If we don't hear anything new today I feel Q will take the mound for his Sunday start.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 09:03 AM) Thing is, nice DHs aren't very hard to find, and they aren't that expensive. That is a roster spot you if fill via FA when you're ready, not waste a precious asset like Q on. I'd be fine with Schwarber as a part of a Q deal, but only in a something that also includes Eloy. Which I doubt is going to happen. Exactly. A Q to Cubs deal has low chance of happening, but Schwarber could not headline on his own as a DH only player. I do think Schwarber will bounce back and figure things out eventually though. Sox want the premium position prospects back, and I don't blame them.

QUOTE (shipps @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 08:50 AM) Has it? It seems to be like the guys who came out a couple days ago saying things were getting close are just twiddling their fingers smiling as if something is about to happen at any moment. I dont get any sense that anyone is saying that their initial reports have changed in any way. I feel like things are happening, but the total lack of info leak is killing me Other suitors fanbases do not seem to know much either

http://www.espn.com/blog/keith-law/insider/post?id=7372 Kopech - 7 Moncada - 13 Fernando Tatis Jr - Sickeningly @ 15 Giolito - 17

QUOTE (Wanne @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 08:43 AM) Hear ya. Does Fulmer have much value to add to any of these packages?... Hopefully we get some insight as to what is going on. Smoke has certainly calmed down on the trade front.

QUOTE (OklahomaBrave @ Jul 12, 2017 -> 10:49 PM) I agree with you. This Cubs chatter seems like total BS. I'm not buying into it, despite q being a for for them.

QUOTE (OklahomaBrave @ Jul 12, 2017 -> 09:49 PM) I saw Enscheffs posts, he is a regular at talking chop where I post. And I posted here frequently all offseason, and started reading here daily again about a week or so ago. Side note, I like your board! Homerism is present for all fans of all teams of course, but I feel as though you have a really reasonable well informed fan base. I don't really agree that the Braves follow the surplus value model Enscheff presented, so I don't personally agree with that reasoning, although his logic is sound and well presented. I said back in the offseason I didn't think the Braves would trade Acuna or Maitan. I think that is more true now than it was this offseason. I think they would trade any pitcher, and even though the Whitesox have great young pitchers, they could use a top shelf lefty. Allard is our best pitching prospect, but I think he could be had. I believe he's better, and held in higher regard than Newcomb, even though the later is in our rotation. I do think they would trade Albies. I know Ensheff doesn't like him, but Austin Riley is a legit prospect and could be trade fodder as well. He has real plus power and many scouts are enthused about his improving body and defensive work. He also has a cannon. He's probably in the 120-150 range for many listers. People with sources I've talked to seem to think we'd prefer to trade Allard to Soroka, which I disagree with, but whatever. I'd be surprised if they gave up both Allard AND Albies since they are both too 25ish guys. For those mentioning Pache, if he were the third piece, be psyched. Wait until Longerhans at FG's list is published, he LOVES Pache, and I believe him to be the best public evaluator. I'd hate to lose Pache, but I believe they'd include him. The Braves will trade anyone from depth. We have a ton of pitching and a good amount of MI. Our outfield depth is ok enough we can lose Pache. Great post, welcome. I feel the braves are interested, but remain on the periphery for now. I still like my compromise deal of albies/gohara/pache/lotto for quintana as being fair for each side. Remains to be seen in the next few weeks what happens.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jul 12, 2017 -> 05:11 PM) But should be less of an issues with prearb and arb guys. A guy like Kahnle isn't going to be devalued because of his control, but it also is not a guaranteed contract. Kahnle's value increases as a result of his inexpensive control, so much to the point where I do not think he gets traded. He could be very attractive as a trade chip next deadline if he proves he can be a quality closer

QUOTE (SoCalSox @ Jul 12, 2017 -> 05:21 PM) I have the feeling a lot of you guys are going to be disappointed by any return the Sox get for Q. Some of these packages thrown in here are ridiculously overpriced. Q is good but some need to temper expectations. I'd say a top 25, a top 100 & a top 10-12 organizational talent would be a max out of what the Sox will see for him & that's a very good get. Which is pretty much exactly what my Albies + Gohara + Pache + lotto ticket amounts to

QUOTE (Enscheff @ Jul 12, 2017 -> 05:20 PM) Really? You honestly think Q's value is going to be higher than it was last off season or this trade deadline? If that offer wasn't available then or now, it won't magically be available this winter. His value is only going to go down as the Sox waste his years/postseasons of control on a losing team. Take it from someone who watched the Braves waste tens of millions of dollars of Teheran's value by letting him pitch for a losing team...Hahn should cash him in now. Hahn does not need to deal Q to the Braves, plenty of other interested teams: Yankees, Astros, Rockies, Brewers, Twins, Blue Jays, etc.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jul 12, 2017 -> 05:17 PM) That deal ain't gonna get it done. Sox can do much better than Pache as the best bat, and Sox already have probably the best stable of pitching prospects in baseball. I like the Braves pitching prospects better due to more depth at this point, but Sox have some quality arms

QUOTE (Enscheff @ Jul 12, 2017 -> 05:16 PM) /shrug Then that likely eliminates the Braves. If Coppy includes one of Acuna, Albies or Matain, he made a mistake...to Hahn's benefit. Maybe, but you have to remember that not all prospects will pan out. Eventually you should cash some in for quality mlb players to help build a contender. Adding a controllable Quintana + Braves other young talented guys could make your team interesting in a hurry.

QUOTE (Enscheff @ Jul 12, 2017 -> 05:09 PM) Demeritte and Riley are garbage. Only the most posi-Braves seriously consider them as players who will ever impact the MLB roster. If I had to guess, I would imagine Coppy has offered 2 pitchers not named Wright (and probably not both Allard and Soroka), plus Pache, plus 1-2 other fungible assets. Hahn has that offer in his back pocket, and if the Yanks, Astros, Brewers, Rockies, or maybe even the Cubs, give in and include an elite position prospect, Hahn jumps. Absent those teams flinching, getting one of Allard or Soroka could very well be the biggest piece available to Hahn. If I were a Sox fan, I would hope he doesn't gamble again on keeping Q in hopes of netting a bigger return at a later date. It almost bit him once already, and he is unlikely to luck out again. I get where you are coming from, but I highly doubt the main piece(s) in a Q package would be an arm. Sox need bats and Q is their last blue chip piece to get high end positional prospects.

QUOTE (Enscheff @ Jul 12, 2017 -> 04:56 PM) I agree, that is a reasonable package. And that's precisely why nobody wants to see this deal go down. The Braves have HUGE organizational holes at 3B, 2B and corner OF. Albies is obviously slotted to fill 2B next year. Acuna replaces Markakis in 2019. Maitan is destined for 3B once he outgrows SS, and should be ready once whichever stopgap the Braves get at 3B this offseason leaves town. These 3 position prospects are instrumental for the Braves success in 2018 and beyond. The Braves simply aren't good enough NOW to trade future value at positions of extreme need for a "win now" pitcher like Q. Hopefully the Braves FO is smart enough to realize that, but their various "win now" moves during the course of the rebuild doesn't leave me hopeful. Braves still have enough depth in their system to overcome dealing Albies + Gohara + Pache + lotto ticket Demeritte can cover 2B and Riley can cover 3B. You still have plenty of arms and Acuna/Maitan in the system.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jul 12, 2017 -> 04:54 PM) I think the Sox can pull two org top 10's plus two more prospects, but those prospects will depend on how good the first two are. I can see them taking a flier on an injured SP given they scouted each during the draft process last year. Yankees - Rutherford, Acevedo, Jorge Guzman, Thairo Estrada Rockies - Pint, McMahon, Pedro Gonzalez, Mike Nikorak* Braves - Maitan, Fried, Pache, Braxton Davidson Brewers - Hader, Ray, Medeiros, Nathan Kirby* Dodgers - Buehler, Yusniel Diaz, Ronny Brito, Oneil Cruz I see where you are coming from, but if the asking price was that low the whole league should be in on Quintana. You don't lower your ask from Tucker + Martes + Musgrove to Tucker + Martes or Torres + Frazier to "A team's second or third best prospect, another top 10 organizational prospect, plus two lower level prospects"

QUOTE (Enscheff @ Jul 12, 2017 -> 04:41 PM) Braves fan here checking in to see perspectives from the other side of this madness. Knowledgeable Braves fans over at ChopCountry.com seem to realize Q's surplus value is in the $70M+ range, plus whatever contender's premium the acquiring team is willing to pay. Based on the consensus mid-season rankings and this surplus valuation of top prospects:http://www.thepointofpittsburgh.com/mlb-pr...pdated-edition/ I would currently value the Braves top handful of guys as: Acuna - $70M Albies - $55M Allard/Soroka/Wright - $35M Maitan - $25M Anderson - $20M Gohara - $15M Nobody with half a clue wants to see the Braves give up any of the top position prospects, and I personally think the Braves value Wright above all the other pitchers. That leaves a package centered around Allard and/or Soroka. Each of them only represents about half of Q's surplus value, so there would have to be (several) significant pieces added. The biggest issue most knowledgeable Braves fans have with a possible Q acquisition is the timing. We all saw how dumb it was for Coppy to hold onto Teheran through the rebuild while his most valuable years were wasted on a losing team, and we don't want to see the Braves pay a premium for Q now in a non-competitive season. Losing teams simply should not be making "win now" moves. If the Braves are going to cash in prospect chips for a SP, I would prefer to see them wait until next trade deadline (if they are competitive), and go for Archer or whichever other TOR is available. If I were a Sox fan, I would NOT be happy with a Q return that consists of mainly pitching, but that's likely what you will see form the Braves. Personally, I think Hahn is using the Braves as leverage to get the Yanks or Astros to cough up an elite position prospect. Sox are specifically looking for bats in the return for Quintana. I do not see a Braves deal getting done without one of Acuna/Albies/Maitan coming to the Sox as part of a package. Something along the lines of Albies + Gohara + Pache + lotto ticket is a framework that could work

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 12, 2017 -> 04:31 PM) I'm with you -- Acuna is the best prosepct in that system and the Braves know it. I don't think they'd give Acuna straight up for Quintana. I get it's the day after the allstar game and most beat guys/writers are traveling or off, but there has not been a single shred of information about this. Just seems odd.

QUOTE (whitesoxwinner @ Jul 12, 2017 -> 04:21 PM) Yankees package is light Would take Brewers Rockies in a heartbeat Braves would also take in a heartbeat Astros is ok Yankees package is far from light. BA has Frazier @ 49, Adams @ 52 and Florial @ 71 as recently as 5 days ago

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jul 12, 2017 -> 04:11 PM) What don't you understand? If Rabbit thinks all of those packages would be unacceptable to the other team, that is a bit disconcerting. Frazier, Andujar and Fowler is about the minimum I would take. Braves package is obviously nice, but I'd prefer more than just Acuna on the offensive side. Brinson + Dubon + Phillips seems light. I'd much prefer Diaz to Dubon. Rodgers + McMahon package seems like a good starting point. Maybe add a lower level bat instead of Lambert. Just seems if Rabbit thinks those packages are far too much that the Yanks, Braves, Brewers and Rockies won't reject the outright, we're all going to be very very very disappointed. Frazier + Adams + Florial I would do Brinson + Ortiz + Phillips I would do Rodgers + McMahon + Almonte back I would do Albies + Gohara + Pache I would do Tucker + Whitley/Perez + solid third piece I would do

QUOTE (whitesoxwinner @ Jul 12, 2017 -> 04:03 PM) So I'm guessing that quintana's value has somewhat diminished? I'll withhold judgement on the return until after a deal gets made. Until that point I'll continue to keep hopes up for a strong return. I just hope in 5 years we do not look back at the result Sale, Eaton and Quintana deals and say "WTF?!"