he gone.

oh, i'm not naïve to that. It's just crazy to me that's where were at. I set my expectations as a sox fan pretty low and Marisnick as my 3/4th OF is even lower than that. The rest of the offseason will just be 1 - Hahn speak, "always looking to add, comfortable with the men we have in the locker room" 2 - Fluff pieces. Colas ones have already begun. The next ones will focus on Sheets and his "professionalism" and work put in on improving his defense. How he takes it seriously. They'll note his improvements throughout 2021 Reality will be when Robert strains his flexor something or hamstring that during BP or stealing a base. Next thing you know our outfield is Billy Hamilton in CF and Sheets in RF. Colas will chase pitches and low and away, MLB pitchers will feast on it and Colas will be back down in AAA. We are now in a situation where Sheets is in a slump too but we have to keep playing him because he's our only option. He's batting .206BA, but occasionally he hits a long homer or two and we get excited. Until he gets hurt for a stretch .... we now have Hamilton in CF and Reyes in RF. We are 36-40 and it's June. We are thinking to ourselves .... if only we signed an actual outfielder for $4mm. Oh well, there's always next year as we drink a $14 Modelo on the way back to our cars we parked for $27.

well ... two more reasonable options off the board. Brian Anderson and Duvall are gone for the prices of $3.5mm ($2mm in possible incentives) and $7mm. We're down to basically Naquin & Robbie Grossman as one of the few options I'd accept. I can see the Sox signing Ben Gamel or Naquin - they've been tied to both previously. woo hoo.

Madrigal continues to be a lightning rod for opinions. I personally would take him 10/10 to play 2B and to bat 9th in our order.

I believe that our payrolls are very, very similar as well. Like, within a few million. I'd be interested to ask who put together a better team, better composition, better future, better path to a championship in both the short, mid and long term. Considering offense, defense, arms, flexibility, depth, etc.? For me, I always start with arms and on that alone I think the Sox probably have the overall edge no matter what. I would absolutely love to bring in one more arm kind of like a Greinke type. I'm okay going with a 6 man rotation for as long as we have to knowing that we're going to have injuries. But not a convo for this thread... we have the arms, somewhat reliable depth in Davis Martin, etc. Bullpen is better. I really like the defense up the middle for the Cubs, though a healthy Robert and a strong arm Romy isn't awful. In general the Cubs have a pretty solid team. No giant holes & have some depth in the infield to work through injuries. Outfield as well. Speaking of Greinke type - think the Cubs are likely done, but they could really use an extra arm, but think they also want to give some of their younger guys a look. Both teams read to me like a 83-93 win type teams in any perfect or worst case scenario. For this year alone I'd take the Sox at an equal payroll due to the upside of our pitching staff, especially at the top. If we were ever to lock in for a playoff series and have a fully firing staff of Cease, Lynn, Giolito, Kopech and Clevinger? That's a HUGE advantage and the type of staff that still gives you hope of a WS. Everything else? I give a slight edge to the Cubs. I'll go Sox 89 wins, Cubs 86 For mid-term - aka next two years? I'd have to say the flexibility the Cubs have given themselves + upside of adding payroll compared to the Sox? They also have some decent depth in the minors. They have the ability to make a meaningful splash and we obviously will not do that. Some of their guys are going to switch hands, but by 2025 i dont see how the cubs aren't better. Long term - if there's any consolation Hahn did pull off good return on some of his past trades Cease/Eloy, Moncada/Kopech, Gio/Lopez, Dunning/Lynn. I just don't get the sense he's fully in charge or has the ability to pull the trigger when he wants. This next go-round has to be meticulously managed for optimal outcome. we have a weak farm system, expiring contracts, and still have to balance that against going for it & keeping a payroll that is tier 2/3 in the MLB. Smart move is picking and choosing who you realistically can extend and who gives you the immediate value v the trade value. A guy like Giolito is this year's case. Next year it's Lynn and Hendriks. I have to give the nod long term to the Cubs. They have an entire ecosystem, neighborhood revenue, and open checkbook. Hahn will have to be masterful to pull it off and his track record is anything but that. He's a C+ to be B- GM under his circumstances. Can pass the smell test, but is mediocre.

Cause we just do. It won't ever change. Rivalries and sports go hand and hand.

have no idea what it takes to run a site or the cost or what admins do. know i dislike some during exchanges and the likes, but glad to have the site up and working and appreciate the work that goes into running it. probably waste 10 mins a day on this site, but some of the better 10 mins of my day.

I have no doubt the Sox will stockpile a bunch of types like Yolmer, Alberto, Sosa, Romy, that guy from the Pirates, etc. etc. They'll give whoever has the best spring training the job and when they don't hit over the first 3 weeks then make a change. The next guy will have 3 weeks and then roll to the next and next and next. Ultimately never giving the time for them to settle in like a harrison did.

It wasn't the price per year that was necessarily asinine, it was the duration. He was coming off years of okay WAR. And assuming $6-8mm per WAR? It wasn't the dumbest signing, but duration against age was. 2017 1.1WAR 2018 0.8 WAR 2019 1.3 WAR 2020 0.8 WAR 2021 2.2 WAR Contract signed: 2022 (0.9) WAR 6.2 WAR over 5 years = 1.24 WAR. Discount a bit for age and diminishing role on a better roster and you maybe come up with 0.75WAR per year. Which does equal approximately that $5-7mm contract annually. The issue again was duration. It was a poor contract based on duration, but also especially if Hahn was given the directive that he has ___ amount of money to build a team. Paying nearly $6mm annually for a utility player is a luxury & is not for a team with budgetary concerns. I'm not a Leury apologist and do think he likely returns to that 0.5 - 1 WAR value in 2023, but definitely a below average contract. He's turned into the defacto poster boy for our problems which i think is a bit unfair. End of the day he's returned 4WAR for $16mm in his time with the Sox. The problem isn't Leury ... it's either the budget or that TLR gave him too big of a role & at poor places in the order.

The only correct take is "time will tell" Nobody knows how this turns out ultimately. It's all probabilities and risk appetite. The Twins ownership has as much $$ as the Steinbrenners. All drops in a bucket at the end of the day.

i would imagine this closes any escobar talks and reopens any nick gordon/kepler convos. Also, i know putting yourself in someone's shoes is tough and don't know enough about Correa, but Twins have to be the worst of those destinations by far if you want to win. maybe he got it out of his system early in Houston, but 6-10 years in Minnesota v. 6-10 years in San Fran or NYC ...

I'd love to be a fly on the wall in Minneapolis. So their plan going into this offseason was they could spend $30mm annually for 8-10 years, but if they swung and missed on that opportunity, that they'd spend zero? Like, how does that make sense? I get if you don't like anybody enough to commit to, no need to throw away money. But they could've used a Segura. Definitely had a hole in RF (though also too many AAAA OF's). They have a weird mix of OF/1B all who in a perfect world could be something, but more likely than not are just average. Just doesn't seem like the type of team that should be spending $30mm annually ... or nothing.

Micah Johnson is the most successful White Sox 2b in the past 20 years. (iykyk)

1 year, 8.5mm or two years and 17mm .... I'm sorry but that's just reasonable. I don't care about his injury history or that his underlying data points to some struggles. I've seen year after year of guys like Rich Hill get deals. I've seen teams run out piss poor #5's from the minors while trying to be competitive. Hell, last year we'd be dead in the water without Johnny. Guys like VV continue to get several million a year .. Not only the Sox, but how the rest of the league passed on him after this past season at that price is asinine. Also agree that the Marlins are now likely to trade a SP. They should've been in that mindset regardless, but now should really be in that mindset. But who knows, marlins are a terrible franchise. If I'm them I'm trading Luzardo and Pablo both to the highest bidder and which returns the best AAA and AA bats.

Solid enough pick-up. Also, likewise, he found himself a solid place to perhaps find playing time. Hopefully he doesn't play for us, but if he does, at least we have a good defender.

Jerry sinks with the ship. If nothing else he's loyal. TLR would be back.

If you're talking about trading prospects then you're limiting your pool to teams that aren't set to compete going into this year and know it (as do their fanbases). You're not going to trade prospects for their starting 2B if that team is trying to compete. So you're left with Washington - Not trading CJ Abrams Pittsburgh - nobody Oakland - Kemp - not an upgrade Miami - Jazz - somewhat realistic, but not getting Jazz for cheap KC - Massey, Mondesi, Nicky Lopez -- maybe you can pull something off? Detroit - Schoop Colorado - Brendan Rodgers (the price based on Miami talks was pretty damn high) Cinci - India - price is likely to be very high Nothing on that list to me matches up well of price v. potential meaningful upgrade to the Sox. The most realistic that you can convince me on is trading for Mondesi on the low. His speed, especially along side the new pickoff rules could be game changing. He also is always injured and has a terrible OBP.

If that was the case he had every opportunity in Segura and didn't take it. There's nothing out there via FA, so it's a trade then. If it's a trade it is likely we're trading Hendriks or Giolito. So it's filling one (unimportant) position and creating a hole at another (more important) position. The answer was FA. They didn't pursue it out of cheapness. The only remaining answer if this franchise truly cares about "sustained" success is one by one trading this core to try and be a Rays or Cardinals like contender. A team that truly is that 85-95 win team each year and needs a few breaks to win it all, but continuously are in the race. As we've seen with the Phillies this past year it can be done. It doesn't happen very often, but it does happen time to time where it all lines up for a month. The current path we're on is neither. Last year and this year are the culmination of a decade of piss poor baseball. The payoff thus far has been an 81 win season, not resigning your best player & face of the franchise over the last decade. This offseason will result in losing (some will say gaining) both Grandal and Giolito. The season after will be Hendriks, Lynn, Anderson, Kelly, Clevinger, Graveman, and Moncada. If you don't win this year and if you don't get bounce back seasons from all the guys we've discussed at nauseum then you're likely looking at trading Hendriks, Lynn, Anderson, Kelly, Graveman, etc. as that core would have proven in back to back years to be incapable of winning a championship. Last & this year were the make or break years and based on the results last year + lack of acquisitions (or trades) of this offseason it's clear that this is a team set to be mired in mediocrity as they are back stuck not choosing a path. It truly was as simple as a 2 year deal for a Conforto and a 2 year deal for Segura. You'd be under the tax payment & have a true Championship caliber roster without mortgaging any future or for a long time horizon. It literally cost $30mm more for 2 years. (That's even letting Abreu go). JR and the Sox FO said no.

we're not a championship contender. we are an 87 win team that hopes to get lucky and hot in october.

id say i agree, but the rest of their repertoire of jokes isn't much better. not that I dislike them at all ... i really like steve stone in the booth (real life hes a cock sucker) and jason is very, very talented. I'd love to add a third into the booth to mix up the vibes. A mix of former players (kind of like they've done to fill in for steve). Basically lets reduce the amount of filler time that steve and jason do and bring in a new voice. preferably someone like 25-35 years old... you've got old man steve stone and jason might as well be 65 with his jokes and references ...

nope, he's the RF. Varsho, Keirmeier, Springer in the OF. Call me crazy, I can see them taking a low price flier on Cruz in Toronto as well. Or maybe more likely Adam Duvall. As mentioned that DH spot is going to be split between Kirk, Jansen, Vladdy, Springer, Biggio, etc. etc. They basically have a Rays type setup. Great OF defense, lots of flexibility, but also a good amount of injury history too in some of these spots. Not sure if they'd give up Merrifield based on all of that, but certainly worth a call and to me, an overpay from the Sox.

Every ... single ... time ... "pretty good, thought your voice was a bit off, but overall good" The joke is so overdone.

Yep, they have a bit of a logjam. I'd think Merrifield returns the most value in a trade, I also think he's the better of Biggio and obviously the Jays are going for it too, so not sure if they'd be motivated to move him at all. He's a great player to bounce around that team too. I'm sure we've picked up the phone and asked when we likely picked up the phone on Jansen. Based on the signings of Erik Gonzalez and no flier on Segura I'd guess those talks didn't go anywhere. Another one of those low cost, common sense deals that you'd hope your GM would be able to execute.. alas, Erik Gonzalez.

I see we brought in Erik Gonzalez ... So Hahn so far has: Leury, Erik Gonzalez, Romy and Sosa going for that spot. Possibility of Harrison and Andrus on the table. I'm so excited!!

I have no idea the cost or feasibility, however Whit Merrifield makes so much sense that it hurts. 2B and RF. Perfect fit. $4mm salary with a $500k buyout. One year deal, unless s%*# gets crazy and you want to do a $18mm mutual option ha. No idea what he costs. Cespedes? More? Less? I'd give whatever it is though and then lock him up for 2 more years.

He actually has some good underlying hard hit data. He's also good for a stretch or two of hot streaks. I only know this because of fantasy baseball ha. not the guy he used to be, but if healthy think AZ gets a good deal, problem is he's not very healthy.