he gone.

If you can do 2/$38mm and below I'd do it. Likewise I'd go up to 3/45mm.

Not for it. You sign Rendon instead if you were looking for a mega bat. You don't take on the contract AND trade prospects. And if you're willing to take on that contract? Then re-think that plan, wait a year, and sign Betts. You then have an actual RF playing RF instead of shifting around one of your stars from 3B to RF. All moot point because i am 99.8% confident Hahn and Jerry are both too smart and cheap to do this for Arenado.

Aren't we all just cheating our way through life? We're stealing time from our companies on this site, we're cut through a parking lot to avoid a red light. You give humans enough rope they'll generally use it and generally not for good. Now throw millions of dollars at these guys, it's going to get corrupt fast. This is the first or last time players will cheat. Not defending it, just not surprised or really outraged.But it does explain why the Astros always seemed to be able to catch "pitchers tipping pitches" -- they were just literally stealing. hahaha

Overall just some quick thoughts from just my own perspective... Technology will continue to disrupt - it will be up to each league to either adapt or not. I personally think VR @ home tickets could be a huge success, but almost in the same mindset of how the Atlanta Falcons lowered concession prices, I think owners are scared of what it might do to their revenues. I believe the NBA already does this, but basicalyl you can put on a VR headset and you have a court side seat. Imagine putting on a VR headset and having Scout Seats behind home plate for every game. I'd pay for that. Rule purists need to let up. I wish some of these purists would re-read the rules from like 1895 and then defend themselves. People change, technology changes, everything changes, the game should too. Just my own feelings, but outside of the Packers I don't watch more htan maybe 30 mins of NFL or college football in the background any more. The continuous challenges and refs + length of game is just too much. I'd rather be doing other things with my time. Kind of touched on it there too, but length of game is too much. I think most of us would agree that the game would be better suited at 2hr 30 mins. Those Buerhle games were always the best. Imagine them all like that. Cost: This is going to sound crazy ... but i actually went to a independent baseball game this summer in Michigan, the team that Randy Dobrek guy played for (Twins). And I'll say i had a great time. $2 hot dogs, free parking, easy in and out with no traffic. Sure the players weren't great, but i had a good time. Feeling like you've been taken advantage of each time you leave the park is never a good feeling. Or whatever arena you've been to. There's a supply and demand curve, and you're seeing it play out a bit in my opinion. You see it with cable tv prices... at a certain point now more people are cord cutting than ever. A lot of revenues for sports are being driven by cable and tv contracts .. thats going to start coming back around once cable companies start going belly up or changing their consumption models.

agree with most of what has been said ... very cheap deal, but probably because he wanted a chance to have another full year of starts under his belt to try to keep his career going. He gets that role with Detroit. Meanwhile Detroit has added a few decent pieces that should make them more competitive this year. Schoop, Cron, Nova ... I can see them adding an OF like Puig too for cheap. Depending on who else they may add on the cheap this off season + some of their young SP's (time manipulation will likely come into play) they may be a somewhat competitive team -- 70-75 wins instead of a 55-60 win team. Good to see for MLB in general. Need less of teams that just throw in the towel completely. Can see them going after Melky, Bucholz, Trevor Cahill, Puig, Vargas, Neil Walker types ... obviously not crazy talented FA, but serviceable guys that can help them win a few games.

Valuations are funky. Tesla is accomplishing a lot in a very crowded and competitive space to break into, however it's the opposite of the time I'd buy the stock. Their credit is still very suspect.

Forgive me since I'm jumping into the thread without reading what people have written thus far. Here's my take: Overall I'd say what, 60? 70%? of bullpen success is pretty finicky. You have your top of the line guys, and they are probably worth the money, but then you have a whole bunch of other guys who may have a year or two years of great success only to go through some downs. Edwin Diaz, Treinen, etc. are just names that pop up. Further to that, the bullpen, to me, is one of the last pieces of the puzzle to acquire to put your team over the top. It doesn't mean you shouldn't have a serviceable pen, but more or less, it's to say you don't go out and get a Chapman, Hader, Mariano Rivera, Trevor Hoffman type of guy unless you are in a true championship window (which i believe will start next year, or more likely 2022). For that reason i'm out on Hader. Now in regards to the rest of the pen guys this offseason, I do think that Hahn missed the boat on a few ... last year we were throwing $9mm at Herrera, and some of these guys are just as serviceable (maybe with less upside) and are going for less. So to me, I think we could have signed some of these guys. However, that being said, you look at a guy like Drew Pomeranz or Andrew Miller, or a whole bunch of other relievers and you see they really were just failed starters. Uberly talented pitchers, but that just didn't have that extra pitch to get through the order a few more times. To me, I think we have those guys internally who can really flourish. Reynaldo Lopez comes mind. We still have Burdi ... I hold out hope there. Basically, I'm pretty against Hader. I'm pretty against going out and signing a big name guy in the future, and would rather go the internal route, while balancing in some high upside FA and seeing if it clicks.

Risk/reward doesn't make sense. That's what the Eloy and Robert extensions were about. Also, "extension" isn't really applicable - it's really just setting out an established pay schedule for arb years and then possible team options. The risk isn't all that much. Madrigal is a nice piece to any team, and a guy i think the Southside fans will love, but i dont think he's the kind of guy who will ever force a mega-contract.

Spending $25mm+ on a 38 year old Donaldson would be in many ways crippling for the Twins. I too am in the camp that I'd hope they sign him.

Who really cares what a poster is saying on a Twins fan site? Most of what is said on this site is biased too. The sox can compete this year, but no doubt have some question marks. The sox are in that 80-85 win category. Twins are probably a hair above at 85-90. Indians same. There will be a ton of close games and injuries, etc. that determine the outcome. Let's just have fun watching the games and competitive baseball.

I'd be interested - in two leagues already, so I'd like to keep it to $150-200 to keep my interest enough. Would be in favor of ESPN/Yahoo since I'm already in both of those and sometimes the learning curves of point systems can take a bit, but am okay another. Also would be interested in a modified keeper/dynasty league..

ahhhh.. i was going to say didn't that ship sail when we brought him up two years ago? But then i dont know enough about those rules and how injuries may affect his arbitration process... if it's just about his actual PITCHING control I'd put him as a bullpen "starter". Let him figure it out there. He's got good enough stuff to work around his control in most situations i'd think.

I don't believe he actually NEEDS it. Beacuse take away the year control issue and we all know he deserves to be up in the MLB. NOW, what I would say though is that if I were the Sox and the control issue aside? I'd have Kopech start the year as a multi-inning high leverage reliever ala Chris Devenski for the first 3-6 weeks to help limit his innings a bit. Then I would slide him in the rotation. Or maybe use a reliever/starter approach ala the Rays with some of our guys. Have Cease and Kopech go on the same day and give them each 2-4 innings. Same with Rodon when he gets back. I think it could be an interesting approach to limiting innings while utilizing their talents. Have Giolito/Keuchel/Gio be your full time guys. Have the rest rotate as Rays type plan working them in effectively. Made that up on the fly -- so not sure if i even like my own idea yet haha

This is what's going to lead to a strike. Teams don't even hide it anymore. I hope Kris Bryant wins his case against the Cubs. I remember that game Kopech was brought up for a few years ago. That was teh most excited a fan base had been in a LONG time. And then we dick around trying to control him & i completely understand the business aspect, but that's sad because we all know without that you'd have Kopech up for Opening Day ... along with Madrigal and Robert. Frustrating as a fan of baseball because all teams should be incentivized to put the best product on the field at all times. Detroit should have Matt Manning up. All these prospects should be up and competing and MLB teams shouldn't be penalized for it, nor the players. They need to fix that issue badly.

Agreed. And not for lack of talent (bullpen could use that though) ... it's just a young group of guys and guys who have historically been up and down a bit. Kopech is likely to have stretches where he has control issues and looks terrible. I mean you look at all young pitchers (mostly) and you see it. Your top of the top guys usually struggle for a bit before learning. Seeing as Kopech has been off for a year and has had a history of trouble in the past? He's not going to have the luxury of learning against AAA guys so much .... so although his stuff is filthy, it'll be a roller coaster in 2020 and probably even 2021 with him. I mean hell, look at Lopez, he's still after 2 years having struggles and he was a top 20 prospect. Likewise with Cease. And we all know Rodon's story plus his year off too. Throw in innings limitations and we're going to have some frustrating stretches this year that are balanced by stretches that we look like world beaters. That'll be 2020 in a nutshell and i think we come up a bit on top of .500 at the end.

That's where we probably disagree then. I don't think Leury, Mazara and Mendick are complete liabilities. I actually like all three of those guys to a certain extent. I think a 2-3 week stretch of good baseball out of those guys is realistic. I also think those 2-3 weeks to start the season may be stronger than what you may get out of a Madrigal or Robert in their first taste of MLB action. I get that every game is important in a bad division, but I don't think its crippling to have those guys on your roster. I'm most fine with Leury, least fine with Mendick.

I'm not sure where to put this post - not sure there is a perfect fit, so I'll throw it in here. As most are I'm super excited that our front office is finally doing something to move the needle and put this franchise in the position to compete and for the fans to have some fun at the ballpark/watching at home. So this is going to be kind of a 3 part post, mostly for my own enjoyment - I like to look back on what I wrote in the future and see if it held up. Optimistic/pessimistic/realistic views. Optimistic viewpoint: Although I've had my differences with Hahn in the past and really think he screwed up the potential to sign nice 1-2 year stop gaps to flip in the last 3 years of the rebuild. I think it was pretty obvious that the likes of Engel, Cordell, the trash at the back-end of the rotation, etc. had no shot of producing on our hopeful upcoming window. I think those years should have been spent trying to find flip candidates that MAY have produced a few more depth pieces in the minors + a few more wins and fun as a fan in 2016-2019. THAT BEING SAID - here comes the optimistic part of the paragraph - I LOVE what he has done this off season, mostly. I really love that these deals are all very meaningful in terms of output, but also reserved in the terms of duration which shouldn't block our prospects and/or future payroll flexibility when needed. i.e - i was a big proponent of signing EE or Justin Smoak this off-season and we go the more meaningful one with a 1 year deal w an option. That really allows Vaughn to take a natural path in the minors and not force him early. Also if things don't go well it allows you to be able to resign EE and move Vaughn up even slower which is nice for both this and next years major league success. Likewise, although Mazara is not the answer and I think it likely doesn't work out - you really didn't make a big commitment to him. 2020 isn't any year we're winning a WS, and although I think Mazara is Avi Garcia 2.0 (which is to say, up and down, flashes of good and bad, but more so, tantalizingly disappointing) it's at least worth the roll of the dice rather than signing up for the likes of Castanellos who although has his positives, also has warts to the point where i wouldn't want to sign up for 4/70mm or more. There's a chance Mazara figures it all out in a new situation and you have a MASHING RF or possible future DH. Gio Gonzalez is the perfect innings/veteran signing that we needed. I wasn't a huge fan of the Abreu money and extension, however I get it to a point - as long as new JR is here to play, that money shouldnt handcuff us and is really more or less paying him for his past contract... at the end of the day this game is about having fun and doing it the right way, and Abreu does just that & when i'm 70 I'll remember the decade fondly with Jose rather than the few million too much JR spent. JA should produce okay throughout the contract and i'm thankful to have him for 3 more years. Grandal was a bit of an overpay, but again, he was the first of signings and deserved it for the risk and attitude we were setting ... also it solidifies our C position for 4 years and with a young staff this can't be understated. Which bring us to the last signing of Keuchel -- a ground ball guy, a vet AND just 3 years. I wasn't the biggest fan of Keuechel, but you have to tip your cap to just 3 years. Hahn has done basically everything i could have hoped for without sacrificing our future which is about as perfect as one could ask. This team isn't winning it all, but it certainly is competing with the Twins and Indians for the division and we should enjoy 83-87 wins assuming a few more small deals are made. It also puts us in just a great position moving forward to go out and sign Betts or Springer next off season in RF which (call me crazy) I sincerely think will happen.. the first and last big splash of JR career. Pessimistic viewpoint: as you may been able to tell, even in the optimistic viewpoint, pessimism sneaks in, my natural state. I truly do love the EE signing and think it made a ton of sense, so i'll take that one though I'll have a different take to fit a negative take below. Gio same, not much to dislike there. Grandal? I think when you fast forward and we're paying him $18mm for the last two years of a contract and there are computerized strike zones negating a decent amount of his worth. I think he ends up a half time DH hitting .240 with 17HR we're going to be a bit disappointed we're carrying that weight during a WS push. I get the deal had to be done, but I'm not sure I really want to allocate those types of funds when you have a notoriously cheap owner. That type of money could go a long way into resigning a Moncada to an early extension or to acquiring a high salaried pitcher. Likewise Keuchel has a decent shot of hitting a 4/74mm deal.... yikes. You have a guy who doesn't have his stuff and who's FIP has been declining. The good is that he's a groundball pitcher.. the bad is Timmy Anderson while rangy, doesn't grade out very well for his profile, nor does Jose. There's very likely chance that Keuchel is just Gio Gonzalez and is getting paid much more and for many more years. For a team with not a lot of money you may have James Shields 2.0. We just seem to love to go out and get guys who are 31+ years old and seem to be on the decline. There's an argument to be made that none of these guys win you a WS, or even put you in serious contention to be more than a WC team in a BEST case scenario this year .. which is very White Sox. If you're going to win you need to get true difference makers, not has beens. You look last year and we spent $50mm on absolutely trash... save that $50mm and it pays for actual talent when needed (which is next off season). I like that we're trying to win this year, but there's an argument to be made that save that $18mm on Keuchel, that $50mm last offseason, that $12mm on EE, etc. and you have yourself $80mm to spend in 2020-21 offseason to get MEANINGFUL guys in a MEANINGFUL off season when winning the WS in a true possibility. $80mm spread out over 8 years is $10mm more to allocate towards Mookies Betts. Instead of 8/250mm offer to Betts and enjoying Jon Jay, Nova, Herrera, EE, Keuchel, Yonder Alonso, etc during 2019 and 2020, now you have an 8/330mm offer to betts and you have the worlds best OF for the next 6-7 years. Allocation of funds are important and Hahn continues to mess that up. I'd much rather have Betts for 8 years than the likes of EE and the other trash for useless years. Realistic viewpoint: It's somewhere in the middle. Glad to see we're competing. I'm glad that this will be a fun team to watch. I was okay with taking it a bit slower than this, but I'm just as okay that we should be over .500 this year & probably playing meaningful baseball into late August. I do think we're not winning the division this year for a number of reasons, but think we'll see flashes throughout the year that will be a glimpse into what may be. I think you have an above average offense, but there is going to be some frustrating times where it's reminiscent of 2006 type years... which is to say ... you get 3 singles in a row, but no runs. I don't know about you guys, but it was frustrating at times to see Thome, Konerko, AJ, Dye to each hit singles and lumber around one base at a time, hit a decent sac fly ball and hold up at third. It was just a trudging and slow team. I think the baseball this year reverts back and you see less HR, so you're going to have innings when Abreu singles, then EE, then Grandal, then a sac fly by Eloy and no runs are scored. A strikeout by Timmy and the inning is over with zero runs & 3 hits. I just wish the middle wasn't SO one dimensional. On the flip side you'll see innings of back to back homers and back to back doubles too, so it's not to say that the 2006 team or this team is bad, quite the opposite, you just kind of have a slow trodding middle. I also think you'll see up and downs of the rookies which is more than expected as well as some frustrating times on the pitching staff with the young guys, again to be expected. So among all this excitement, I'm happy, I just think this is a 84-78 type team. Which in the end, I'll take because we're finally moving forward and this off season hasn't hamstrung us too much for next off season and beyond, so for that i'm excited.

My own personal opinion that 2-3 weeks of Garcia, Mendick, Mazara is not hurting this team in any way. It's more likely than not that a Robert and Madrigal will struggle as most rookies do with their first taste of big league action. Also I think people get really excited around all these deals, sometimes fail to realize that this team while improved still has some real deficiencies.

Puig will go to Miami - thats my guess. Doesn't make sense on this team, he makes our team better, but doesn't improve his own stock.

I've been a proponent of this for some time, but give me either EE or Scooter Gennett ... or if greedy, both for the last few signings. Scooter has bounced around the diamond a decent amount in his career and can be your starting 2B before Madrigal before playing super backup all around the infield, and even in a corner OF position here and there. I'd give both guys 1 year, $6-9mm deals. I'm not one to be very optimistic, so it's starting to feel uncomfortable, but you give me both of those guys? I think you can convince me after a few glasses of wine that we're not only favorites in the division, but squint and I could see an ALCS in our future. 1 - Robert 2- Madrigal 3- Moncada 4- Abreu 5- Eloy 6 - EE 7 - Grandal 8 - Mazara 9 - Anderson Bench - Leury CF/SS/RF, McCann DH, 1B, C, Scooter 2B/3B/LF, RF, Collins - 1B/DH/LF I'm not sold on that order, but I dont think Anderson repeats his last year... I think Robert is Acuna that you need to get him the most AB's on the team. Madrigal could easily be slated for bottom of order, but I do like him putting the ball in play with Robert on the bases. But honestly, even as a naysayer usually ... I think that team is a 90+ win team. You have depth in the lineup, and no real hole outside of RF, RF defense, 1B defense. Rotation is obviously set and you have yourself Kopech and Rodon at any given time which could even afford you a 6 man rotation for a bit. It's all in all a real team. Almost one where you could trade a Dunning or other prospects and try and get a legit TOR SP for a playoff run to contend with the Astros or Yanks. I wouldn't, but you could convince me. Maybe I'm just being too optimistic this morning. Its the holidays hah. So i say, fuck it, uncle jerry go out and get SCooter and EE.

I like Arenado, but if we did something like this I'd be upset, because then why dont you just sign a Rendon? Giving up prospects would make no sense

I maintain my stance, this is a fine signing for the back-end rotation. It's a warm body, probably $5-8mm and he provides decent production. I'll take it. Now go sign Alex Wood or Ryu and please for the love of God bring in something useful in RF (Mazara at DH).

Ground ball outs.

I love short answers like this. Adds very little to the conversation in terms of thought process, reasoning, etc. Very twitter like response. I'd take Happ over Price, but would pass on both. Happ is a pretty big fly ball guy, and although Comiskey is better than NYY, it's still not ideal. At the price and age? I'd assume just pass. We should be focused on going after ground ball guys. Here were the top 24 in ground ball outs last year: (24 to include a little heartache)... the issue i Have with this front office is that some of these guys were available, and some at pretty okay prices this offseaon and it doesn't seem like Hahn knows or has access to stats like this sometimes... Anderson could've been had on a short, cheap deal. Nova is still available (i know not a favorite), Alcantara can be traded for, Miley was out there. Perez actually intrigues me a bit. But i think the obvious one to me is Ryu who's career ERA is under 3 and probably only takes a 3/4 year deal to get done. Give him 4/84 and be done with it. 1 Brett Anderson Oakland Athletics SP 269 2 Dakota Hudson St. Louis Cardinals SP 258 3 Stephen Strasburg Washington Nationals SP 255 4 Zack Greinke Houston Astros SP 244 5 Mike Leake Arizona Diamondbacks SP 237 5 Hyun-Jin Ryu Los Angeles Dodgers SP 237 7 Miles Mikolas St. Louis Cardinals SP 234 8 Patrick Corbin Washington Nationals SP 231 9 Ivan Nova Chicago White Sox SP 230 10 Masahiro Tanaka New York Yankees SP 229 11 Marcus Stroman New York Mets SP 227 12 Mike Soroka Atlanta Braves SP 223 13 Sandy Alcantara Miami Marlins SP 216 13 Adam Wainwright St. Louis Cardinals SP 216 15 Aaron Nola Philadelphia Phillies SP 215 16 Luis Castillo Cincinnati Reds SP 212 17 Noah Syndergaard New York Mets SP 207 17 Wade Miley Houston Astros RP 207 19 Eduardo Rodriguez Boston Red Sox SP 204 20 Marco Gonzales Seattle Mariners SP 201 20 Jose Berrios Minnesota Twins SP 201 22 German Marquez Colorado Rockies SP 200 23 Martin Perez Minnesota Twins SP 199 24 Zack Wheeler New York Mets SP 195

I'm serious when i say this ... I'd give Keuchel 2/22 with a buy-out of like $2mm and a team option for another $12mm. That's it. I don't want him on my team in 2022 unless he really deserves it. Gio Gonzalez is fine as a warm body for me, but is interchangeable with others