he gone.

Sox should stay VERY clear of this deal in any way. But since it makes no sense we'll probably end up doing it. Just like Mazara. IF we want to really take the steps of being the next "it" team then we should probably refrain from bailing out bad contracts from our competition while getting back a still expensive, over the hill pitcher.. even if its $51mm over 3 years - that's the type of contract that can land you a better, younger David Price in FA. And why JBJ? $11mm in FA again can do you better. And you help out the BoSox in possibly retaining Betts. Keep your $40-50mm that you'd pay Price, plus $11mm to JBJ and bank it towards 2 years on the Betts contract next offseason. That way when some team offers 8/260 and we offer 6/200 for Betts we don't have an excuse... Also Bientiendi is overrated. Very White Sox move though - so can't wait for it. Hahn will find a way to screw this up before it even gets fun.

The walks scare me. I'll throw a random comp of Jon Gray out. Or maybe Robbie Ray. Fine pitchers no doubt with some real nasty stuff, but walk issues that limits their true Ace potential. I see Kopech being more so the aforementioned guys than Sale. The percentages of him flaming out completely might be a bit high, but he does seem like he can be a head case that spirals at times. On a competitive roster he may not have the leash to learn. My best guess comp is those two guys though (at least off the top of my head)

Here's my own, very amateur and quick dive on the Sox rotation (also i'm not talking injuries because you can't predict those - thats why you want to be about 7 deep. 5 good guys and 2 more guys who can hold down the fort. Giolito - 25-30% chance of being a true ace. Up there with your shut down guys that are top 10 in the league. 50% guy of being a fine #1 guy. 75-85% being a very solid #2, 10% chance of just reverting back to an end of the rotation type guy Lopez - 5-10% chance of figuring it out and being a #2/3 guy. 80% being a #5 guy who can eat innings and is more or less a young, better version of like an Ivan Nova (just using familiar names). I personally think he's got a chance though to be shut down 7th/8th inning guy and would be curious to see how he handles that role. Dunning - again this is without injuries - and I think he's a bit of a wild card since we havent seen him at this level, but I'd say he's got a 30% chance of turning into a Quintana type. A guy who can be your #3 and be solid. Give you chances to win games and keeps you in it. I think there's a 75% chance he sticks in your rotation (again assuming health) Kopech - 25% chance of becoming true ace, top of the league type guy. 40% chance of being a serviceable #3. 35% chance of never putting it together for more than a few stretches at a time and is almost on the Lopez trajectory of bouncing around the back of rotation and maybe bullpen Rodon - He's the most controversial of my guys. But I'm a Rodon guy. So I'm skewed a bit here. I'd say 20% chance he turns into #2/3 type guy. 50% chance he's a rotation piece. 30% chance he's gone to some other team. I really think were going to see multiple All Star appearances by Rodon if he can stay healthy - just dont know if it ill be on the sox. Cease - 10% chance he can be a #1/2 type guy. 20% or so that he's mid-rotation guy -- maybe Sonny Gray like. 50% chance hes a rotation piece. 25% he never makes it and is a bullpen guy

To be fair... let's just be optimistic for a bit. Eloy in LF, Robert does the job in CF. Anderson and Moncada do their jobs on the left side of the field. Madrigal produces like we expected and Vaughn shoots up ala Robert and Madrigal pushing to be the 1b/DH combo next year. Abreu is obviously around. So.... what exactly do we need? Right field. And the way I see it, that's the deepest position. Betts, Springer, Brantley, Pederson all could fit. And truly, if you were going to spend, Betts wouldn't be a bad spot. Then in terms of pitching - let's see what we get out of Cease and Lopez and Kopech and Rodon and Dunning this year. The options above arent fantastic but if even ONE of those guys listed take a step like Giolito last year then you have yourself a 1-2 punch at the top of rotation. Let's say another 2 take a step to be considered a solution for the back end of the rotation ... for arguments sake I'll say Rodon and Cease as your 4/5 and Kopech/Giolito as your 1/2. So then you need to sign ONE pitcher (also knowing you have Lopez and Dunning to fill out depth). Grab me Quintana on a 2-3 year deal at $13-14mm a year. He's your #3. Right there you have a playoff team with the best outfield in baseball and an all around solid infield. The rotation could use help, but its enough to win us the Central and you can assess halfway through the season if you want to add a Verlander/Cole type through a trade to make a push

The same people who are giving grief about a comment on Twitter are the same people on this board going off non stop on Hahn and everybody else over the years. I get that Twitter is different, but Nicky knows that too. I'm sure it's not the first time someone has said something to him online. Also he's a grown adult, i'm sure he's self aware enough to realize his standing in MLB life... it's basically over except for random chances like this.

Let him continue his dream in Charlotte. Always need guys like him for a 15 day period when injuries arise - guys who have had MLB experience. Not a huge deal. That being said, I really wouldn't mind the day we can fully close the chapter on 2015-2019

I'm not enthralled with Nova, but then again I wasn't against resigning Shields last offseason either. I'm just looking for a healthy arm that can provide QS. Amazingly if you look back to Shields' last year with the Sox he was like Top 10 in MLB for Quality starts. obviously the other starts were many times disasters which led to some poor numbers, but I like a guy that can keep you in the game most of hte time and provide QS and innings. Now Nova only had 11 QS, but he did have an okay second half of the year. Not tied to Nova by any means, if we're going for a 6 man rotation (unlikely) you might as well get a higher upside guy who you can flip anyways ala Alex Wood. Trevor Cahill, Gio, Bucholz, Jimmy Nelson, M. Harvey, T. Walker, Wade Miley... I like some of those names way better than others, but with most of those guys you can squint and maybe find a silver lining.

What does everybody think about a 6 man rotation? I would actually like to see one and let nature take its course over the year. I think the positives are that you limit Kopech and Cease's innings + if there's an injury you keep trucking along rather than dip down to Banuelos and Detwilers of the world. I doubt that's the Mets plan, and I think it's limited to teams like the Sox and Royals and teams not squarely in contention. For someone like the Mets it doesn't make sense to skip extra games of Thor and DeGrom, but for the Sox, and this year in a vacuum? I like it actually. I've been throwing around some of the same names for a while, and will do it agian for conversation ... Giolito Alex Wood R. Lopez I. Nova Cease Kopech You can follow the Kopech time manipulation game if you'd like, but let's say by May this is your rotation. Then you let the chips fall where they may. Chances are that you'll have an injury so it wouldn't be a big deal - at that point you're back to a 5 man rotation. But if not, just let everything work itself out. If Nova is pitching like first half Nova last year? Pull the plug. If Alex Wood is pitching back to a 3.50ERA and looking great - then flip him to a playoff contender. If R. Lopez is struggling? Maybe bullpen time for him. I think it accomplishes a lot this year. Plus you have Rodon in August. Just food for thought. Not necessarily conventional, but I'm a fan.

In the same boat. my train time has been greatly affected! I relish those 20 minutes of getting mad at people who think we should've signed Cole for $500mm and a lifetime contract or bust! But seriously, I do miss it.

I would tend to agree with you, the odds are against us. It's unlikely with JR and Hahn and KW. But we won't have many holes to fill for a while which SHOULD theoretically give the opportunity to continue to build the minors. . We should theoretically be plugged in LF, CF, SS, 2B for a while. So up the middle looks good. Moncada has a bunch of years left. You have a Vaughn who should at least bat wise be a high floor guy. Pitching is always a crap shoot and that's really goign to be the difference between us being able to keep this train moving full steam ahead once its on the tracks.

You do realize that 4 years ago we had NONE of these guys right? If the Sox do the job right, 4 years from now we'll have a new wave of guys. Also if we did this job right you have a large number of holes filled, and you should be retaining SOME of them. So you aren't starting from scratch like this time having to fill almost a whole roster. me thinks you may just be a negative person in life. Have a little faith. Not too much since its JR and Hahn, but some. Things will be good on a go forward basis with the chance to be great.

Nope, not a two year window. A St. Louis Cardinals or Rays type window (or maybe even the Indians if they do this correctly). A rolling window. You pick and choose if you're extending the likes of a Moncada or Kopech or whoever your new internal upcoming FA is. We don't have to be a franchise that continuously builds and tears down. We are in a big market, and should look towards the Cardinals as our model. Let a Pujols go and keep rolling. Make informed decisions and spend big when the opportunity presents itself. Always have a seat at the table (haha - that was on purpose). Sox fans are so caught up in a window. Open the DOOR to your baseball mind. This should be a 10-20 year type thing. As the Moncada's or Kopechs or whoever roll off, you decide, based on internal minor league talent if it's worth it to give the big money or to fill from within. When you're a top 3-4 team in any given year, then you load up on a few nice FA signings or make a trade for an impact player. When you don't, you compete to the best of your ability, but don't push the pedal down. Sustained success.

Last January when I was called "absurd" saying 2022 is the first World Series contender - not just playoffs, but world series. Absurd? I guess the first thing is what is your definition of "competing". Because mine is actually having a shot at winning the World Series. So in my own definition I don't count the Braves as a serious competitor this past year. Sure they won the division but they were never making it through the gauntlet of the playoffs as champs. Likewise, the Astros are a perfect example. In 2015 they won 86 games and went as a WC.. nice season? yes. But it was laying groundwork. They never really had a shot at winnign it all. 2016 they won 84 games and didn't make the playoffs. Obviously 2017 worked out great. So, maybe by your definition my thoughts are absurd, but my thoughts are more or less this: 2019: hopefully a great, healthy year in the minors, players move up to AAA. Maybe a Cease or others hits the majors 2020: Your Madrigals, Dunnings, and Kopechs all take their licks in the MLB. Hot/cold season. Up and down. 2021: Your second wave of prospects --- Rutherford, Adolfos, Burgers, etc. get their seasoning while your Kopech, Cease, Dunnings, start really coming into form. 2022: Everything finally comes together. So yes, I standby 2022 being the first REAL year that a Sox team can compete seriously against teams like the Yankees and Red Sox and Astros currently are putting out. That's assuming no injuries and prospects all getting better... let's not forget we thought Moncada would be an All-Star and Giolito could be a nice 2-3 starter. Hansen was supposed to be a 2-3 starter too... now he's what? And Fulmer, etc. etc. things don't go that smoothly very often. Robert is probably more likely to be Jorge Soler than Mookie Betts. So yes, 2022. I guess I'm absurd

YES YES YES YES YES!!! This is why it's good most of the fan base aren't the GM. We'd be screwed. I've been saying this for like 2-3 years now. Here are my comments from January of 2019 after we missed out on Machado: But it was always going to be that way.. we had no minor league system. Even if those 4-5 guys were absolute studs, you'd need to do a lot of supplementing with FA because the minor leagues was such a desert. You're not building this for 2019 or 2020. You're building this to hopefully be the Cardinals or any other really successful organization that it's a constant revolving door of home grown talent, young minor league talent coming up and your occasional big splash FA. The kind where you can let a Pujols leave and not miss a beat. Or where you can make an offer to David Price or Stanton, etc. etc. 1- Look to the future. Look to 2021 or 2022 when the Sox are hopefully in the ALCS. Adam Engel won't be on that team. Palka 98% sure won't be on that team. Nicky Delmonico won't be on that team (maybe even this one), Leury Garcia, Cordell, Tilson .... none of those guys will be on the team or even really have more than a 1-2% chance of being on that team. Leury is your best shot, but there will be a cheaper, younger option who can fulfill his role. So all of those who are making the point that a 33 year old is stealing somebody's time needs to can it. 2018 was their opportunity to make noise. We gave these young guys a whole year at the MLB level.. a shot that they'd only get with a 60 win team. We owe these AAA guys nothing. 5- Whether you believe it or not, this team, if it can sign Machado is positioning itself for a 2017 Twins like opportunity. If Eloy does as expected, if Moncada takes a few steps forward? Add in Machado and maybe a guy like Ervin Santana? All of a sudden I think you maybe are talking a 80-87 win team. That's all we can really ask for over the next two years anyways... a Band-Aid team on 1-2 year deals that hopefully you can have a chance with if all goes right. The real fun begins in 2021 anyways. August of 2018: The time isn't even right to bring up Eloy or Kopech according to Hahn, so why in 3 months would it be the right time to spend $300mm? As much as I'd love it, JR isn't signing off on $300mm contracts when your rotation is still 2-3 years from coming together and being competitive. Same with Madrigal, Robert, Collins, etc. Those guys are all 2020 guys. Arenado would be our first real POSSIBLE FA signing. In regards to Moncada when he was batting awful in 2018: I mean, for all the people complaining, just read this stat over and over. If he changes his approach just a little he's going to take off. As much as we'd all love him to be Juan Soto or some rookie that comes to the majors and just rakes and never looks back he is likely to follow the path of Javy Baez and Avi Garcia a bit more. We should be thankful he is learning on the 2017/2018 Sox and isn't a Madrigal or Robert that won't have as much of a leash to learn on the fly on the 2020-2021 Sox. (Also one of the reasons the BoSox traded him - didn't have the luxury of letting him learn) I sometimes think that SoxTalk has memory of a fly. All of a sudden we like Palka and Engel? And dump Garcia? Last year it was let Engel rot and Garcia should be handed an extension... oh and that Nicky Delmonico can be a part of the future and that Davidson is a joke. Then in the beginning of the year it was Davidson can be the DH of the future!! He gets hurt for a few weeks and all of a sudden it's play Palka over Davidson when Nicky and Avi return.... How about this? Really none of these guys are much better or worse than each other and put them on the Nationals or Cubs or Astros and they'd all be riding the bench or in AAA. If we want to be a team that really competes for it all each year I don't think many of these guys are part of it. Hopefully you find 2-3 players from this disaster of a 2-3 years of baseball. Also found this gem in regards to win totals in 2019 from January. I'd say this number is probably a bit high right now, but not far off. You're talking 12 more wins than last year ... with a solid bullpen you may be looking at 4-5 wins alone right there. Any progression from Giolito and Moncada would help a ton... someone on base (Jay) in front of a Abreu should help and add in Eloy... I think at this exact moment, figuring maybe some veteran 1 year gap SP and maybe an OF (basically assuming no machado or harper) I'd say... 70-72 is my guess. You also have to remember the division is awwwfullll. Indians are worse, Royals are worse, Tigers are worse... and that's like 70 games of your schedule. You can check my track record - I've been mostly consistent on my takes. Even for this year - I said a realistic offseason would be to add Grandal, Smoak/EE, bring back a Nova type and that I'd check in on a Rich Hill/Alex Wood type. That's a fine offseason. There's no need to push down the gas a year too early. You sign stop gap 1-2 year guys & next offseason is when you can truly assess your team and needs. That's when you spend. Just revel in the fact that this team has finally turned the corner and will be an 80-83 win team, but most importantly FUN to watch. We are going to have some really fun stretches this year where we win 6-8 games in a row and we'll see glimpses of the future. We'll also probably have some maddening losses and terrible stretches. That's what young teams do. They learn to win. And that's what this yaer is all about. It wouldn't mattter if we signed Rendon and Cole BOTH this year... we wouldn't be winning a world series. We're going to have young, inconsistent guys learning. And that's fine. In a perfect world maybe 2020 couldve happened, but that was assuming that Kopech and Moncada and Burger and Lopez and Giolito and Eloy, etc. etc. etc. ALL didn't go through any struggles and turned into All-Stars. ANNNNDD. just like how every guy i just listed had issues .... you're going to see Robert and Madrigal and Cease and all the other young prospects go through struggles too. That's why 2020 was never really going to happen. Be happy - not spending and locking into long contracts this offseason is a GOOD thing. Drops Mic. And you can go reference this post in 2020-21 offseason if you want. If the Sox don't spend or trade then? Then this franchise will have killed my last remaining support.

hahha that made me laugh. I guess you're right. Like he said coming in 2nd place is the best advice he could give... get's the attendance and concessions money, but never have to go overboard on payroll. Sad thing is we all know this but refuse to pick a new team to follow. Loyalty sucks. When I moved to Houston I started following the Astros pretty heavily and basically have split my time between the two teams over the last 5 years. I will say I'm to the point where I just enjoy good baseball. I'd much rather watch the Astros play the Athletics rather than the Sox play Detroit. After a long day of work - I just don't need to watch Ryan Cordell and Gordon Beckham play. I've found it makes life a lot more enjoyable. I'll probably be back to a 75/25 timeshare once the sox bring up Madrigal and Robert, but until then I'll keep splitting my time.

This. He brings this on himself, but to be fair it doesn't matter - he's been with the orginization for 20 years and isn't held accountable. Neither is KW, neither will anybody else JR brings in. It's amazing JR is as rich as he is, because he sure doesn't know how to run a company or business.

To be fair that's how a lot of rebuilds are. This one could be even worse if Gio and Moncada didn't take those steps last year. It couldve also been a lot better if Hahn didn't think he did an amazing job when the Jimmy Rollins/Mat Latos year started off well. That team was destined to do nothing, yet we pushed forward getting Shields when there was no reason to get aggressive to land a clearly over the hill Shields. Let's just hope hahn learned his lesson and doesn't go get D. Price and handcuff the future Sox again. Hell if we had Tatis right now this team could & would likely be in contention next year not only for a division, but possibly more. Which is to say ... look how close we are! Rendon wouldve been a really nice piece to put us into real contention, but now that it's over, let's not chase and overpay these remaining FA that are pushing for more than 1-2 year contracts. Hahn messed up another offseason - let's just enjoy the 81 win season and Robert and Madrigal and Kopech and Cease maturing instead of Detwiler, Cordell, and Delmonico out there and hopefully next year we are actually signing a Betts or the likes.

I fully expect JR and Hahn not to follow my plan, but that was my arm chair GM plan. I truly in my heart believe trying to go all out on most of these FA this year wasn't worth it... I do think Wheeler could've been justified. I think that Rendon DEFINITELY could have been justified. I liked the Grandal signing. But outside of that I really wouldn't want the Cole deal at the price, I wouldn't want the Stras contract at that price. in two years? Yes - I want those deals. But I'm not nearly as upset as most Sox fans. We likely don't sign a top end player or Betts next year or in 2021, but that would be my dream. I fully expect us to keep dicking around on meh targets and to mess up this beautiful run that we are poised to be on. I expect Hahn to go out and trade for David Price type, spend $32mm on an arm like James Shields and then strap ourselves from really pursuing what we need during a REAL contention window. That's the Bulls and Sox way.

This off-season, if we walk away with Grandal + Mazara & then add a few 1-2 year deals on guys like an Alex Wood and Scooter Gennett, Justin Smoak would be okay with me. I'm in the minority here, but I think those two bats can be had at a very reasonable price + are good StatCast types. Gennett can be your Leury 2.0 bouncing around the whole field. Smoak can spell DH/1B as well. I'm fine with this - it's not dropping $$, but I actually think we shouldn't be spending money yet. Then I think the Sox add 2 starters that are in the Alex Wood type mold. Not world beaters, but serviceable guys. I'd take him and I'd even take Nova back. Now, that's the minority view and that just gets this team to like 81 wins. And I'm fine with that. HOWEVER, the problem is I don't trust Jerry to spend the money ever, so it doesn't really matter, because the reason i'm okay with the above plan is that I expect and need the Sox to go out in 1.5-2 years and be the team that signs Wheeler and Didi or Rendon and Ryu or trades for Lindor and signs Gerrit Cole. If I'm playing arm chair GM, this is how I'm doing it. In 2020 I'm adding serviceable vets on 1-2 year deals. Give these young players a chance to learn and grow at the MLB level, learn to win, come together, assess deficiencies. Next offseason I'm out there signing Mookie Betts and creating MLB's best OF for the next 5 years with Eloy, Robert and Mookie. Then I'm trading some nice prospects to pick up a Blake Snell type controllable pitcher. I'd add a Quintana type too dependent on how Dunning, Rodon, Lopez, Cease all turn out too. The following offseason I'd be on the last year of a Abreu deal and I'd know all i need to know about Vaughn and Madrigal at that point (as well as Robert, Moncada, etc.) and be looking to extend in house talent and adding a top end SP in Kluber/Syndergaard, Verlander, etc. type + a top bat where a deficiency arises in Freddie Freeman, Lindor, Story, Bryant, Arenado, etc. So you're basically adding Betts on a major, major deal, a controllable pitcher on a reasonable deal via minor league talent, extending one in-house guy, signing an aging proven TOR guy in a Verlander, Scherzer, Kluber type in hopes they have something left, and then taking a stab at the 2021-22 FA class for a bat where one of your in house guys didn't do the job you expected.

If a trade is being talked about I'd much rather it be taking on a bigger contract and not giving up prospects. We've gotten so close, lets see what our guys are worth first. i don't want to deal with losing antoher Tatis because we rushed this thing a year. We're not getting past the Yankees or Dodges in 2020

seems about right .... might as well just sign Avi to a 2 year deal. haha. And this board thinks Hahn is going to build a championship roster...... thatll happen as soon as GarPax does too.

Okay just looked at baseball reference for stats on both... I wouldn't be as excited. I don't want either unless they're chipping in like $10mm or a fringe prospect too. hah

Honestly? I wouldn't hate that trade as long as we give up nothing at all. Yonder Alonso type return. I haven't researched Eovaldi enough, but a 3 year deal at like $15mm a year all of a sudden seems like a steal. If we signed him 3/$48 as a FA this year I think our fan base would be excited. If we did JBJ at 1/$11 I think people would say it's an overpay, but obviously it's just one year. That would also make a scary good defensive OF with him and Robert. Pencil in Eovaldi as your SP3 ..... Gio, _____ , Eovaldi, Kopech, Cease, Lopez ... just go with a 6 man until someone gets hurt. Limit the innings of Eovaldi, Kopech and Cease.. I"m actually talking myself into this as a nice plan. haha

Let's just face the facts - we're doomed to be the Rays and A's as a franchise. let's not kid ourselves - we aren't even in the neighborhood on these type of deals. Uncle Jerry won't go past 5 years and teams are dealing out a quarter of a billion over 7 years for an arm. That's 3-4X the largest contract in Sox history that was just set 2 weeks ago. Our best shot is our internal talent progressing well and then us making some really nice in-season trades for controllable guys like Cole was from the Pirates for 2-3 seasons.

I'll pass on shares of Ozuna and Stras. Give me Rendon or a Machado at those prices. Even Harper. But I'll pass on Stras and Ozuna. The Machado and Harper deals will end up going down as huge steals IMO.