he gone.

Yep. no sarcasm.

I'm usually very anti-PR for corporations because I like authenticity, but the Sox could really use like a PR 101 lesson from some firm. They should sit down Hahn and KW and JR and anybody else within the organization and really discuss image. They are so clueless - saying things like this over and over but then letting GarPax run the Bulls and striking out on Machado & other FA when it was such a cheap FA class, then not evne going after the top guys this year.... I mean.... cry me a river. I'll get roasted for this, and it's not in good taste but I hope the Sox are playing like game 7 of the WS and JR passes on to the next life the morning before the game. He literally holds the key to spending.... so maybe quit moaning about it and make a good business decision.

Saw this .... PASS. That's too much risk. I'd sign up at 4yrs and up to $84mm (really think he's worth more towards $74mm), but not interested in a 5th year.

Agreed - it's all a balancing act. At some point you have to get the thing kick started. I just look at the Cubs last offseason and this offseason where they are crying poor - and we all know JR loves to cry poor. So i just think the room for error is very tiny. Does a Kopech and Cease truly have enough in the tank to get us through a playoff grind? How about a young Robert and Madrigal? I think this year is obviously key - you want to make smart, balanced decision which i think both Grandal and Wheeler were. I'm not so sure Ozuna fits that mold. Or really even MadBum. Castanellos has his question marks obviously. Actually the Abreu signing was a head scratcher. We have very little room for error and i think we've seen enough out of Hahn in FA that we're going to have to get extremely lucky for it to work out well.

Guys I'd consider as long as the price wasn't too prohibitive. None of these guys fit the mold of TOR, and only have a few have the capability. Jon Gray Sandy Alcantara (GB, back of rotation guy) - maybe something like trading Reynaldo to Marlins for Alcantara + another guy from Marlins? Just think Alcantara might fit the Sox park mold better w/ groundball profile, plus more control for a few years. basically swapping a 4/5 for a 4/5. Kluber - he's my favorite target, but obviuosly interdivision probably wont happen unless Lindor is also on the move. I think Kluber has the chance to be Verlander'esque - meaning he can keep his career going through his upper 30's. Kluber really never had a falloff, just a freak injury. I'd want to target him in FA afer this year too. Nelson - free, just money Eovaldi - if they can chip in something else. Or take those 3 years at the cost and grab something else.

The question is are you willing to be too aggressive this off-season for that sentimental (while important) first step and possible first win in the playoffs against the possibility of tying up too much money now, when it could be better served in 2021, 2022, 2023, 2024? To me I'd rather start spending and getting risky when we have a clearer picture internally of our talent and our internal issues. aka, just using the Cubs as an example since we are all familiar. They had some holes this year that they were unable to fill because the money was allocated a few years ago and trades were made a few years ago. I know you have to go all-in at some point ... otherwise what's the point? But I'm just not sure this is the time yet. We don't have the luxury to float a bad Heyward signing and based on Hahn's track record in FA I'm not sure he's going to hit at a great clip.. I'm just in the camp that let's be patient for ONE more year. Hell, a half year if the first half is a surprise. But I'd like to see a year under the belt of Madrigal and Robert and Kopech and Cease + other pieces to see what we really have.

I agree. Kick those tires on Conforto and Nimmo and ... gasp. Cespedes. If Cespedes was literally "free", meaning we trade Alex Call type guy AND the mets take on $17mm+ I'd do it. One year deal on Cespedes at $12mm or less and I'd roll the dice.

Man, I'm a bit to very disappointed here. Hahn had to know Pham was available. He was a nice fit, short term duration, inexpensive, etc. Now what we would have to give up? Not sure. Probably too expensive at this point... and i guess you don't want to give up decent prospects when you have Pham for just 2 years. Pham is such a nice player, that's the only disappointing part. Oh well.

But even if we win the division in all reality what's the chance of us winning a WS? Kopech and Cease will be on innings limitations... our rookies aren't used to a full season... I think we'd get swept or maybe win a game. No way we'd get through the ALCS or the WS. I echo we need to have money available in 2021 to fix problems

110%. and here's an even less popular, but realist opinion of mine. I think 2021 won't be any picnic either. I think this year is 78-83 wins (depends on FA signings and trades obviously) and i think 2021 is the year you may sneak in as a WC or as a Division champ, but with warts and holes. I think 2022 is the year i EXPECT a ALCS appearance. I don't much mind the sox not signing guys to long term, expensive contracts this offseason. If it makes sense do it, if not, walk away and reassess next year.

Just so i can hold myself accountable in writing - I'm okay with Bumgarner, and even like him over a few other pitchers... I'd go 4/76 on Bumgarner or 5/90 (tops). I'd rather have Ryu at those exact same numbers, injuries be damned.

So much changes year to year. Last year there was a contingent of Daniel Palka backers. Like serious that they thought he was going to be a future DH on a playoff Sox roster. Last offseason there were also people done with Giolito and Moncada. One year changes a lot and to me, we don't need to be freaking out about Zach Wheeler. This team has a lot of internal questions to answer between all of their young rookies and minor league talent. There's a very little chance that Vaughn, Robert, Madrigal, Kopech and Cease all turn into all-stars.. it's actually much more likely things like what happened to Jake Burger happen to one of those guys. Some people will fizzle, others will have freak injuries, others will have a lost season due to injury, etc. 2020 isn't our year anyways, so IMO i'd rather just wait on the spending and apply it when we know what we actually need to take the step from a 90 win team to WS favorites, not a 70something win team to an 85 win team.

Agreed. The unfortunate part of message boards is generally there is no accountability on dumb posts. People say outlandish our outspoken comments and then they get washed away into an abyss of other comments and takes. People change their minds constantly and never get held accountable. A month ago if there was a poll the majority of the board would have probably said their tipping point was like $110mm on a 5 year deal. Me personally? I would've like a 5/90 day, been okay with 5/100 and been meh on a 5/110 deal. 5/120 though. Pass. But the Sox lose out on signing him and the whole board starts freaking out. Just like Machado. Ask who would take 9/270 of machado now after moncadas year? Hell we were freaking out when Arenado signed. Now you barely hear a peep about people pining for Rendon. If you were one of the people going apesh*t on Machado situation then you should be going all out on Rendon.

It's apples to oranges. One has a 40 man roster, one has 15. One is an international game that's never been more popular around the world bringing in revenue from all over the world. That's silvy being a good radio host and driving conversation, even he knows it's a dumb comparison. They drive similar revenue, but valuation wise NBA has never been more popular and the bulls are almost worth 2X of the Sox. That trend will continue to spread too.

Agreed. Yanks are going to be on a mission after Cole goes West. This is just spitballing, but I'd take the $24mm we offered Wheeler and put it on Rendon and shift Moncada to RF. That's knee jerk right now. (Yes it would take more years and more than $24mm) I may retract this thought in the next 24 hours. haha.

No - that's you being a sarcastic poster. My point is 80% of this board would likely take Giolito over Wheeler all things equal and a year ago Giolito was considered a bust by 80% of this board. Step off the ledge, this isn't a huge miss.

Yes. And he didn't get that. Which proves exactly my point - he's not a TOR starter. He's a nice piece, but by no means is a TOR. Markets dictate worth. If he was a TOR he'd get $6 and $180mm ... he's not.

Someone who does that for more than a year or two. Aka, someone like Scherzer and Verlander and Kershaw. Sale. Do it consistently for a half decade and you are a TOR starter. You put Wheeler against Scherzer or Verlander in Game 1 of a WS and the line is -195 in favor of Scherzer's team against Wheeler. (By the way, he'd be pitching game #2 cause Gio would be out there... so the argument that he's a TOR can't even be backed up on his own team)

LOL. LOL. LOL. Probably the same sox fan that freaked out about not signing manny machado. When Wheeler is hurt again and the deal is an overpay we can all look back and laugh. LOL

The other fish in the sea is true. Sorry. Go back 2-3 years and tell me if you thought you'd be heart broken about not signing Zack wheeler to a $24mm/yr contract? There will be other SP that come along. Just like Giolito sprouted up and did well, there will be others. There will also be small market teams that are willing to trade Archers and Coles. Everything will be fine. Breathe and just enjoy a team that's finally turning the corner and on it's way to 81 wins. Have fun with it. There will be ups and (many) downs this year as these 22 & 23 year old kids learn the MLB.

This board is too emotional right now. Gerrit Cole and Manny Machado Wheeler is not. He's a nice #2-3 SP that was overpaid becuase he was the best available in the tier 2 category. thats the type of stretch you make when you're knocking on the WS doorstep, not in 2020 coming of a 70something win season.

I think you totally missed my point that was explained afterwards. I'll give you a billion dollars if you can tell me how the Sox roster progresses in the next 3 years. Is Madrigal a star and Ichiro or is he a soft ball singles guy who really is just a 9 bat? Is Robert a perennial AS or even MVP or does he fizzle out like so many prospects do? How about Vaughn? Does Moncada repeat this year or 2018? Is Giolito a true top 10 pitching star?? Nobody with confidence knows what this team will look like in 2-3 years -- which in turn is the time when we should be really winining world series. So no need to press the gas pedal down too early. Especially at almost $24mm a year.

Just to put this in perspective this makes him the 9th highest paid SP in the MLB. Soon to be #11 after Cole and Strasburg sign. Do you think he's the 11th best pitcher in the MLB or has the potential to be a Top 25 pitcher? It simply wasn't worth that money. In parenthesis yes or no I would want that contract going forward) The tops are: Scherzer $36mm (Yes), Greinke $35mm (Yes - it's two years only), Verlander $33mm (Yes), Price $32mm (Hell no), Kershaw $31mm (Nope), Sale $30mm (on fence), DeGromw (Yes), Zimmerman $25mm (No) There are only a few pitchers in my opinion that are worth that type of coin - arguably Wheeler wasn't even a Top 3 pitcher on the Mets. I'll take a pass on $120mm contract.

Not me. Wheeler would be a fine addition, but no need to get in a bidding war over a guy like him. There are other fish in the sea. I actually think we are getting too aggressive a year early. I mean look at the Cubs and Heyward - most people were ecstatic with the signing on the North side, but fast forward a few years & the Cubs were cash strapped in 2019. That money could have been used to shore up a few other positions and been very beneficial. While I'm not against signing a Wheeler I do think we should be patient for another year and figure out what we have in house and the deficiencies that may arise (or be filled) internally. I'd like to see if Moncada, Giolito and Anderson can repeat their successes. I'd like to see if Kopech can come back and be effective and throw strikes. I'd like to see if Cease can round his game out. I'd like to know how Vaughn, Madrigal, Robert and various other prospects can handle MLB level. If Eloy can truly become a star. Is Collins just a backup DH/C or is there something there? There are just so many questions and so many outcomes that I think plugging holes with expensive multi year free agents at this time is pressing the gas pedal too quickly. it's one thing if you're the yankees or bosox or dodgers, but we're not. We don't have a whole ton of room for error under JR's budget. My opinion is that I'd rather let some of this shake out in 2019 and just add veterans on 1-2 year contracts right now that help us be competitive and fun. There's a <1% chance of us winning a World Series this year ... it's murderer's row getting through the Yankees and Astros and Dodgers and all the other tier 1 teams & I just don't see Kopech/Cease and other younger arms holding up through any playoff run. So definitely strike on guys like Grandal and Wheeler if you are SURE those are holes you'll have and NEED. But you have to balance that with the fact that you may need that money in 2-4 years when you have a real glaring hole & a better shot at the World Series after you know your young rosters true talent a bit more. I just am worried that we'll be like the Cubs where there are clear issues in 2023 and JR sits on the sidelines due to $$ constraints.

I'm not sure it's really a sacrifice. MadBum has been a proven ace in his career, and although he has more innings on his arm, has also been healthier throughout his career. His stats can stand against Wheeler any day of the week, and one could easily argue are stronger. All for less money and less commitment. Not sure how it's a sacrifice ... You're getting yourself a #2-3 type guy.