he gone.

Well, to be fair, the Sox are a dreadful team to be a fan of. That to me is the best case scenario. Encarncion to me is almost a given. We have very little competition on the market going for him... like I really can't even find a team at all. Mariners=voglebach, astros no, rangers no, astros no, yankees likely not, red sox obviously no, rays probably not, orioles nope, jays? maybe? Twins, nope, tigers, nope, royals, nope. indians - id guess not. Sox will pick him up for cheap.

a tough project no doubt. I have no clue on most of these, but i think cole will get his 8 years. Cole - 8years, 275 million Rendon - 8 years, 250 million Stras - 6 years, 180 million Bumgarner - 3 years, 70 million, option/buyout year 4 Chapman - 4 years 70 million JD Martinez - resigns with BoSox Ryu - 3 years, 75 million Donaldson - 3 years, 65 million Wheeler - 5 years, 90 million Ozuna - 3 years, 54 million, option Grandal - 4 years, 70 million Odorizzi - 4 years, 60 million Hamels - 2 years, 25 million Didi - 6 years, 75 million Keuchel - 2 years, 30 million Castellanos - 4 years, 65 million Miley - 3 years, 33 million Encarnacion - 1 year, 10 million Moustakas - 3 years, 33 million Puig - 3 years, 39 million

Another angle to consider is the trade route. Just names of guys I've come up with ... some with service time left, some with a year or two on their contract, but possible difference makers that may be available.... Corey Kluber - inter division trade would be tough, but i don't think it's out of question. He really hasn't had a fall out, just a freak accident this year and maybe one that kept his arm fresh for an extra year. Best case scenario is you trade and re-sign him and he turns into Verlander'esque. German Marquez/Jon Gray - not sure the Rox would trade either of these guys espeically with how much money they've dedicated to some of their recent signings. But maybe you can do a deal where you take on Blackmon for RF (i know his splits are troubling and paid a lot) and you take on one of those pitchers. Doubt they'd do it, but I like the Rox roster a lot for trade possibilities (Garret Hampson, Brendan Rodgers/Story, Blackmon, Gray, Marquez, etc.) They are a team that has stretched their budget and if you're willing to take on a bad contract maybe you can get help there. Boyd - Again, another division team, but they are a few years away from all their stud SP coming up & are in needs of bats. Maybe you put together a deal that gives them some minor league bats. Marlins pitchers - none of these guys are likely your true difference maker, but Marlins are a terrible orginization always willing to trade. None of those are super inspiring - but then again not that easy to add impact SP, which is why you need to spend on a Cole type when available or why someone like Quintana was worth so much.

And did i offer the you nationals in our bet? Nope. Why? Because of Corbin, Scherzer, and Strasburg. I also placed bets on the Nationals at +2500 in early September and +1200 at the beginning of the playoffs. There were only a few teams with a claim to WS this year. Astros, Dodgers, Yankees, Nationals. One could make an argument for Cardinals/Rays if all went right, but they were really, really fringe. The rest --- Braves, Brewers, A's, Twins had almost zero shot. It was no accident that I offered a combination of 5 teams including the Braves, Brewers, A's, Twins and Rays.

Correction - I would be trusting you for the payout since my point was proven during the bet. You had no chance at the $1,000 even going into the Championship series round. The trust was on both ends. We both had to trust the other would pay out. You didn't take the bet because you know your point was wrong. Which all ties back to this off-season and any subsequent off-season - the Chicago White Sox, almost regardless to how Robert, Madrigal, Eloy, etc. turn out -- will not be winning a world series unless we have 2 STUD top of the rotation pitchers, or 4 VERY GOOD pitchers. I can't say with confidence that we have met the quota for even ONE - "very good" pitcher yet. Giolito is our best hope. Kopech too. Cease has the chops. There's the talent there, but at the end of the day Grandals, and Gardners and all the people I'm even hoping the Sox sign mean absolutely nothing. Nor does James McCann. Nor does any other FA signing. It just means we play 2nd place ball like JR wants us to.

Yep. I said Grandal is best catcher in baseball. You love to move the target on discussions and put words in peoples mouths - you do it consistently on every post. Would have been a nice $100 to take off you on our playoff bet that you backed out of. Grandal fits the White Sox, just as he did with the Brewers and Mets this past offseason. He's not a world beater, however the Sox do not go after Gerrit Cole, Hapers, Macahados, Rendon's of the world. We'll never get those guys. With this being a "realistic" offseason thread.... Grandal is about the top of talent pool the Sox will acquire via FA. I would easily sign him without thinking twice and send McCann off to no mans land. Here are the Sox worth rostering and caring about in tiers: Tier 1 : Giolito, Kopech, Robert, Eloy, Madrigal, Cease, Moncada Tier 2 : Anderson, Abreu, Lopez Tier 3: don't care about any other sox player enough. they are very replaceable. The job of the Sox FO is to add a TOR pitcher into Tier 1 and then fill tier 2 with a bunch of FA. Grandal would make Tier 2. We then need a Tier 2 RF and DH as well. I expect the Sox to never come close to signing a TOR pitcher via FA. I do however epxect them to sell off a bunch of the farm in 2021 or 2022 to acquire a controllable starter like Cole or Quintana.

Yes, I'm sure Will Smith, Keibert Ruiz (not to mention Cartaya and Wong both in their top 20 prospects) had nothing to do with it....... C'mon man.

So we can all admit the following: 1: Catching measurements are iffy at best 2: We don't know much on how to judge them confidently 3: The majority of us did not like the McCann signing at all in the offseason 4: McCann is neither the problem or the solution 5: Catcher is not the biggest issue at hand, but is up-gradable via FA 6: JR is cheap and no matter who the Sox sign it will be a half measure

Saying that you only judge a player by his whole season numbers in one sentence, and then having the following sentence extrapolate a 2 month subset from 2017 to support your case in fact totally contradicts. McCann is neither the problem or solution. I really don't care what the Sox do with him. Give him arb at $5mm and trade him or just cut bait -- doesn't really matter to me. Hell keep him. If they keep him so be it. But he's not your catcher when we are playing game 1 of the ALDS in 2021 or 2022. We're not making any WC next year so if we don't sign Grandal let's see what we have at AAA. This whole thread has digressed to McCann who in the grand scheme of things has ZERO to do with the future of the sox winning a WS. Pitching is king and until the Sox man up and sign a Cole or Strasburg this offseason or trade for one next offseason it's all moot. This team will never contend for a WS until we have 2-3 TOR starters. As i see it we have 2 at best in house, so must go get that third. That should be the real discussion. Not career backup catchers and their future as a backup.

Grandal 100 games catching, 40 games DH Abreu 120 games 1B, 30 games DH Collins 60 games catching, 40 games DH Gennett 50 games DH, 50 games 2B, 15 games 3B, 15 games OF

Hey ... uh ... do you realize that your points 1 & 2 completely conflict with each other? And I'm not sure where I said "they cant". Sure they can. I won't even pick at the rest of the argument since it's not an argument I even made. These two scenarios can exist: McCann is a fine/average player. He is not the problem. Sox trade/sign/replace McCann with Mercedes and nobody bats an eye.

It's not the 3 best month of any given year... its the 3 best months of his whole CAREER. He's never come close to putting up that production before. As quickly as it emerged it went away. McCann is not a part of this teams WS future. if the sox keep him, so be it. He'll bat .230, catch for giolito in 2020 and be gone next year or released mid-year. To me that's a waste of a spot. The only reason to keep him is for Giolito, but if Giolito is ever truly going to be an ace or #2 for the long term he's going to have to find another catcher. You cant roster McCann solely for Giolito.

Rewind 1 year and re-read the comments and expectations on McCann. Then look at his second half stats. Then look at MLB production at Catcher. All i'm saying is $5mm is a lot of money for a catcher that's likely to hit .230 next year. I'd be just as comfortable with Yermen Mercedes and Collins if need be. We're not winning next year anyways, so who cares if you take some lumps figuring out if one of those two guys can be your guy if you strikeout on Grandal? Secondly, just don't strike out on Grandal. Simple as that. Again, just my thoughts. I thank McCann for a fun year like I thank Palka for a fun year in 2018. I doubt McCann will be on the roster at the end of 2020 even if he does get his $5mm arb.

More or less he had a career year in almost every category and those we're driven by the first half stats. His second half had a BA, OBP about 100 points less than the first half. His OPS was almost 200 points less in the second half. He's a pumpkin who had a crazy good half of one season. If you want to make the argument that he served as Giolito's personal catcher I can see that angle... but i dont think that's worth $5mm+. Giolito isn't going to have McCann around his whole career. So I'd cut bait now.

Still haven't given this a ton of thought or researched what may be available everywhere via trades, etc. It's just a gut feeling, but i think you'll see Hahn make some sort of trade for a controllable RF or DH. Obviously I think finding a cheap DH that's serviceable should be the easiest ... they are a dime a dozen, but based on Hahn's track record .... it hasn't been the case so far. My keys in general: Find your team MULTIPLE high OBP guys. Guys who take walks. guys who put the ball in play, etc. Madrigal will be a good start. Eloy should be better next year in that category. Robert can't be worse than Engel and Cordell. However, we'll likely get regression from guys like Anderson and you can't have a whole team of Anderson's. We need better, longer AB's that force the pitcher into more uncomfortable situations and get to the bullpen quicker. You can't have a team and win CONSISTENTLY with having so many all or nothing guys. We have a decent core, but having so many nothing guys hurts. I mean look at the Cubs (or a lot of modern baseball). You can have a ton of talent, but you need some consistency guys like the (hopefully) Madrigals. So that being said as much as I'd like a Puig and some of the other popular names being thrown around - I can't say he's going to make the team much better, because i don't want a bunch of .280BA with a .300OBP. I want guys who will work the count. I'd look to teams like the Pirates and Rockies and Mariners, etc. and see if there's a way to grab one of their younger controllable guys. So without further ado: Sign Grandal, don't resign McCann. McCann was great in 2019 & that's fine. But let's move on. It's the Palka story of 2018. It was a fun career year, but there's a bunch of history here and I don't think he repeats. With Collins and Mercedes and Zavala at AAA I think you take whoever does the best in ST and put them on the roster. Hopefully that's Collins, but we'll see. They start 60-80 games behind the dish, another 30 or so at DH. Grandal does the rest splitting between 1B, DH, and C. Grandal rated 4th in all of MLB in pitchers per AB. I like that he fills a hole as well as a mindset. A guy like him can be very valuable to a young clubhouse. Catcher position is now put to rest for the next 3-4 years. As is DH with Abreu/Collins/Grandal/Vaughn. Those 4 should be able to rotate between 1B, DH, C pretty well. Backup plan: If you don't sign a Grandal, I'd take a 1 year flier on Justin Smoak. Despite his numbers he really put up some amazing statcast numbers and was subject to a bunch of bad luck. He could fill the DH/1B role along with Collins. In that case, I'd add in an Avila, d'Arnaud (probably too expensive now), or some other very releasable catcher. Either promote Madrigal quickly, or sign Scooter Gennett. Scooter can probably be had a pretty low price, maybe even on a 1 year deal. Again, depending how the above plays out i think he can also play your 2b, DH role as well. He's also played RF, LF and 3B in his career. I like the idea of him as a super util guy once Madrigal is up. But if he does as well as he did outside of a freak 2019? I think you have yourself a steal. I'd try to find a way to fit him even with a Grandal. Sign Brett Gardner. Grandal ranked 4th in the MLB in taking pitches per AB. Gardner ranked 5th. He's old, but hasn't really slowed down. He's the perfect example of a veteran presence and someone who has consistently won. Since he's older you can probably get him for a reasonable price too while your OF prospects hopefully develop. Perfect stop gap. Perfect price. Perfect length. Perfect fit all around IMO. Ultimate prize, but unlikely JD Martinez. Give me some combination of the above & I'll be happy. Lineup by May assuming Madrigal and Robert are up: C - Grandal, 1B Abreu, 2B Madrigal, SS Anderson, 3B Moncada, LF Eloy, CF Robert, RF Gardner, DH either Smoak or Gennett. Bench: Collins for 1b, DH, C .... Gennett for LF, RF, 2B, 3B ... Leury Garcia for SS, CF, other fill in. In terms of pitching I'm all in favor of signing a big name, but if we spend $30mm for 3 years of gardner + $8mm on Gennett + $4mm on Smoak + $70mm on Grandal? I doubt we shell out the big money. So I'd be all for paying market price on Strasburg or Cole. I would be however against signing Wheeler. He's the type of guy like Eovaldi last year. He falls into that category of a pitcher that is in Tier 2 so is more affordable, shows flashes, etc. so gets overpaid because theres more demand cause few teams will make the big splash for a Cole. I pass on him. I would however go after Rich Hill, Wade Miley, Wainwright, Ryu, and Alex Wood. I prefer a Alex Wood or Rich Hill or Wainwright. All of have injury issues and/or age issues and would come cheaper therefore are realistic which is the point of this thread. Plus with Rodon coming back say... July? August? You really only need a healthy rotation for part of the year. So my rotation would be: Giolito, Alex Wood, Kopech, Lopez, Cease, Wainwright. That's right I'd go a six man rotation. Keep the arms fresh, especially since Wood is known to be injured, Cease has a history plus is a rookie, Kopech coming off a year away, Wainwright old and frequently injured. That 6 man rotation probably only goes through a few turns before its unhealthy anyways. Rodon back midsummer. Let the best guys play by August in a five man rotation and move the other 2 to the bullpen (assuming all are healthy). Wood shouldn't cost too much more than a Sonny Gray contract of this past year which was ... 4/50? Get Wainwright at 2 years and 20mm? ' And that's my team. I think this team contends with CLE and MIN next year for a division.

There's only a few teams that can deploy this strategy well -- and it's lead by the Rays. Even with all of their talent on the MLB roster and on the way i wouldn't trade my spot with them.

Exactly the situation with them and the Twins, Cubs, etc. You don't win (many) championships without having the front end rotation studs. Yankees are running into it now as have the Cubs, Brewers, etc. Those teams all had the bats. For instance... take the Houston rotation and put it on: Yankees, Boston, Minnesota, Oakland, Texas, Angels, Atlanta, Mets, Philly, Milwaukee, Cubs, Cards, Rockies .... all of a sudden they are all REAL threats to a world series. (You can probably dispute a few of those successfully). Some of those rotations were even decent. As long as we run out our rotation as is we will not be in the TRUE running for a world series title. So as expensive and risky as it is, you need to acquire guys like Cole rather than Rendon. Likewise, it's probably not smart to acquire those type of talents until you are truly ready to compete offensively for a WS because of injury issues.. My personal opinion is to wait on a guy like Cole (for a team with an owner like the Sox) and then acquire via trade and FA in 2021 when you have fully assessed your holes and opportunities on offense. If you were a team with JR not as your owner you absolutely sign Cole, but making a big mistake signing with JR is like a game of jenga, could unravel a franchise.

I'd love to sign Rendon, however, you can add as many bats as you'd like, however pitching wins championships. If you're going to spend $30mm a year, you do it on pitching. The teams that are in this thing at the end of the year are teams like HOU and WAS BECAUSE of their front end starters. You need 3 TOP arms to have a legit shot. Sure there will be exceptions, but theres a reason these teams are left. Right now if you look at our roster.... Kopech - has a shot ... but TJS, innings limitations, etc. He's our best shot at a true top end shut down pitcher in house Giolito - obviously looked strong this year, but we saw the few years before. IMO he's not your game 7 pitcher .... yet. Maybe he gets there. But right now he's a nice 2/3 in an IDEAL situation (aka your Greinke on the Astros, or Corbin/Strasburg on the Nats). Cease - I think at best he's your Anibal Sanchez. Hopefully he can be your 4 that you roll out in the playoffs. IMO you go out and get Gerrit Cole if you truly believe in Robert, Madrigal, Vaughn & your other bats coming up soon. Otherwise wait a year or two and then trade your minor leagues for the Greinke/Cole/etc. that is available in 2021.

Maybe so. But my suggestions are more or less "realistic". The Sox are never going to go out and sign a big name. So take Cole and Rendon off the list right away. They are most likely to go after short contract guys. Has been proven over & over.

Gimme a buncha shares of Scooter Gennett @ a discounted price this winter. I'd take him on a bounce back contract or a 2-3 year deal if he's willing. Give him maybe 1yr, $7mm. Or maybe something like 3 years and $15mm. If that can get the deal done let's do it. I'd actually love to bring him in for the rest of the year. Who cares if it costs $2mm. Let him learn the coaches, team, city, etc. and see if there's a mutual fit. He's played the OF before, played a few games at 3B, obviously plays 2B. Don't see why he wouldn't be able to play 1B in a pinch and also DH. Make him our Ben Zobrist. Let him play 2b for April/May until Madrigal is called up & then you shift him to playing 4-6 games a week. Get him a start at 1B, 2B, 3B, OF, and DH each week. That's 5 games a week on average. You're basically getting a nice super utility guy at a reasonable price who should hit .290, 20HR, and hit some double with maybe a .800 OPS. Maybe he doesn't do that well, but I'd take that over Yolmer. Outside of that my targets are Justin Smoak on a 1 year deal. Again that's around a $3-7mm commitment. Let him be your DH/1B with Abreu. Smoak has amazing Statcast numbers. Give him a shot for a year, can't go worse than Alonso. OF I'd want to sign Marcell Ozuna or Puig. Not a fan of their low OBP, however they both play hard, good D, and bring pop. You now have an OF of Eloy, Robert, Ozuna. An IF of Moncada, Anderson, Gennett, Abreu/Smoak. Catcher is Collins and Mercedes. Madrigal by May. Gennett to super UTIL role. Pitching I'm okay with a Nova resigning for cheap. I'd go out and sign a few other wild cards. Maybe Rich Hill if Dodgers let him go. Give him like 2 years and $25mm. He's the type of guy that will be hurt, but that's fine. If you truly are going to make the playoffs as long as he's healthy then he can be a real asset. Plus you'd have Rodon coming back halfway through the season too. I just want like 7sp, you have stack extras like the Dodgers knowing you'll have injuries. Then why not throw a few bucks at Alex Wood too. Also always injured. Give him a Sonny Gray type contract. Now you have a buncha guys and don't have to care about Kopechs innings limit as much. Can give him rest. Wait on Rodon, etc. Giolito, Lopez, Cease, Wood, Nova to start the year. Hill out bullpen in a multi inning late reliever role. Kopech by mid-April/May. Maybe move to a 6 man rotation. By Summer you probably have Nova as a middle reliever guy. You have time to ease Rodon into a SP role again. Wood and/or Hill are hurt. Rotation is Gio, Lopez, Cease, Kopech + healthy body. Total spend: $7mm on Gennett 1 year. $5mm Smoak, 1 year. $25mm on Hill over 2 years. Wood $50mm over 4 years. Nova $4mm, 1 year. All affordable and shorter term guys. Not bad. Ozuna would be your prize. And you'd have to pay him maybe 4 years and $80? Have no idea if that's low or high.

As much as Tatis stings - I'll say this .... he's going to be a bit of a bust through his first 2 years or so. His power is undeniable and he may be able to field. However you're going to have a Sano or Joey Gallo like player on your hands for a bit. That being said .... he's ridiculously young. So it's really not a big deal or a precursor for a bad career.. I just think we as Sox fans won't be too disappointed in the trade until like 2022.

Hopefully something like 19-11 so that Hahn can go out there and trade Madrigal or Cease for someone like James Shields. Who's that in todays game --- Julio Teheran? Alex Cobb? Jordan Zimmeran? Giddy up. Can't wait for this season to start. In my whole life I've never been more nonchalant about a season's start. I've either worked from home or taken the day off my whole career -- this year I doubt I'll even flip the game on. I'll probably watch the Astros/Rays over the garbage they're dumping out to us fans.

This is correct. It's a cost benefit analysis for both sides. It's just ridiculously in favor of JR and the Sox as they are the ones with the money, the current broken system in place, the control, the power, etc. Eloy on the other hand is negotiating from weakness. What if I blow out a leg, an arm, a bicep, etc. etc. He has a lot more to lose. So because of that he can be taken advantage of. It's a business decision for all parties involved.

True, but that's why it's a hedge. Let's say Eloy earns $80mm through his arb years. JR paying $20mm for peace of mind in case all of a sudden the system flips on him? What if the system flips and Eloy is worth $150mm. Then it just become a cost benefit analysis.

The point being missed, or that I haven't seen talked about is the new CBA agreement. It's been made clear that the players are going to push being given more guaranteed money earlier in their careers. I think JR knows this and knows the gravy train of paying rookies and young arb guys almost nothing is about to end. Giving Eloy $100mm isn't so much about him believing in Eloy or being a nice owner. It's a calculated hedge to lock in a (hopefully) budding superstar at below market cost if the players association successfully negotiates a new agreement. Jerry Reinsdorf is Old Man Potter from It's a Wonderful Life. He doesn't miss a trick. He's offering 50 cents on the dollar.