he gone.

It may be for some fans. But these are the same fans sitting on FOUR playoff wins since Reinsdorf took over (taking away one magical run in 2005 that we all will cherish for the rest of our life and bought us sanity for a decade). Past is a good indicator of future, and at this point the past isn't so hot. Like it or not, outside the Mariners we have the longest playoff draught. Although I'd like to end that sooner than later, my expectation is that it won't happen.

I remain bullish on sustained, consistent winning over the next decade. I also am in the minority that thinks that 2022 is an acceptable year for this to come together. (compete seriously for a WS). Wins I expect and 100% okay with over the next 3 years: 2019- 77 wins, 2020 - 84 wins, 2021 - 88 wins. If we don't make the playoffs in 2021 I will still be happy with the progression as long as by that time JR is ready to open up his pocketbook for extensions, FA signings, and keeping the ball rolling FORWARD for the 5-7 year period following.

I think the second part may apply to every prospect ever haha. We've had a lot of 2020 playoff chatter when we can't even come to a conclusion about our #3 pick overall last year. Or keep our top international prospect healthy (Robert). Or have our former #1 overall rated MLB prospects (Giolito and Moncada) perform at the MLB level. Or count on our 2017 draft choice to hit off more than a teeball tee (Burger) ... our or other top prospect to do more than soft toss from 10ft (Kopech).. or count on other top prospects to ever make an impact at the MLB level (Hansen/Fulmer) or count on our front office to make a signing over $68mm (Machado) ... I agree and think we need to take 1 day at a time. I don't think this will be a smooth rebuild regardless if we sign Machado. Last year was a bumpy, bumpy road. Probably would grade the rebuild a 2 of 10 in terms of making progress. I want to see progress this year. Real progress.

This board is bi-polar sometimes. (all the time) So many hot takes on Madrigal, Timmy Anderson, Moncada, etc. Just give me 9 professional hitters that each serve a purpose and I'm fine. I just want a mix of power, speed, slugging, OBP, etc.

I may be in the minority, but I don't worry about his SLG%. Not everybody needs to fit a certain mold. A guy who has a solid glove and puts the ball in play is worthwhile. Also as everybody has kind of said, lets give it some time here.

I also agree with anti cheap knock offs from overseas. I can't stand that stuff. Some people say it looks similar, but it's actually pretty poorly made. I bought a Swisher and Alexei jersey in the past and it was just awful. Too skinny, buttons were all off, lettering was poor, numbers were spaced out oddly. Striping was significantly off from real jersey. The whole thing was pretty bad from top down. $30 for a knockoff v. $100 for a replica... I'd do the $100 every day. Just my opinion though. Have yourself 5 parking lot beers instead of 5 ballpark beers and save that money and apply it towards the real thing.

They do have the Oakland A's advantage though in a way.. not that this applies come playoffs as much, but they can survive at PetCo with some more suspect pitching than other teams. They still do need SP over bats though. I'd say Machado way over Harper. They have so many OF prospects that they cant play them all (although most haven't panned out like planned)

I was actually sitting in an American terminal in Vegas in March and this big guy comes by with like a family of 6 and sits down 2 chairs away... it was Frank and his family. He walked up to the bartender and chatted him up for like 10 mins. was on a first name basis. I believe he lives in Vegas or at least splits his time between the two. You don't get on a first name basis with the bartender if you don't do that flight a ton. Didn't bother him at all, but seemed really cool... I liked that he went up to the bartender and talked to him.. wasn't even ordering a drink, just being nice.

Yes, but what if Manny sets up shop in Gary, IN? How much money would that save him versus living in Lincoln Park? Have we thought about that?

I mean.... I think this is low on the list. It's about Machado and Harpers duty to their fraternity of brothers playing in the MLB, the MLBPA, it's still about MILLIONS of dollars that, even though he'll have a ton, is still MILLIONS of dollars. It's about a fair market value. It's about ego somewhere in there...but it's about being competitive. These guys are competitive more than anything and it could be over winning a video game or winning a $250mm contract and they'll react the same way. they want to win. I used to think along the same lines when I graduated college.. I saw people in my industry and go... that guy is so wealthy, why would he leave a good paying job to jump to another company just for a little bit more when he has everything I could ever want here? Job security, comfortable, no worries. But then you start working, and you start outworking your colleagues. You start putting in the time and the effort to be better than the rest. And then when you see someone who's not as good making more than you... it eats at you. You can be very comfortable in a lifestyle and have it all, but still want more. It's natural. So although Machado will have more money than he'll know what to do with.. it's about looking at some of these mega contracts that have been given out and saying... hey.. im better than that guy.. and that was 6 years ago... why aren't I making more. Or hey.. I'm worth more than Cano.. but I can't get more than him... it's a certain drive these guys have. it's what makes them the best. it's what pushes them even though he'll make more money in the first year of his contract than he needs for the rest of his life. It's a catch 22... cause you need that drive and that mentality to keep pushing your training and become the best despite you have a guaranteed contract. I fault Machado zero for holding out for the largest contract possible.

I don't think it's easy as we make it out to be as armchair GM's. I'm in the camp that Epstein is a bit overrated. He has a great track record in bringing consistent contenders though. I do think he struggles in the FA market a lot though. The Sox are going to have more than a few tough decisinos to make (hopefully) in the coming 4-5 years. Do you extend Eloy? Do you extend Dunning? Do you trade them at the deadline because you're 6 games out in August in 2024 and they're impending FA (not using correct years here, just scenarios) ala a Bryce Harper and Nationals situation? Or do you go for it since you have a talented team. This scenario will play itself out a ton over the next 5-8 years. Which prospects are you willing to part with for a NOW run? Which do you hold onto? Which players do you let walk? How do you ultimately become the Cardinals where you balance that all and win every single year? In my dream scenario we are the Cardinals. A team that can spend as necessary on some big names, but also lets a few walk. Always balancing. Always toeing the line.

I think you are as excited as you've ever been. I don't think that is true of all Sox fans. I remain cautiously optimistic in all regards, but in no ways do I think we'll hit 30-35k consistently. I think you have to draw on the past to determine the future. The fact remains this franchise doesn't win, doesn't spend and doesn't draw fans. Until proven otherwise I'll remain cautiously optimistic that we CAN get there. However even if we successfully rebuild and put out very competitive teams... you may have to factor in a baseball strike... likely will have to factor in a bad economy...

hate to burst the bubble of the board at all ... but the sox aren't signing machado AND harper and then sending Banuelos or Covey out there every 5th day. it makes no sense. Offensively you can make the case the team could compete with almost any two with those guys + eloy added to the lineup.. but they aren't rolling out that type of money and sticking with giolito, nova, banuelos, and covey for 3 spots in the rotation.

Maybe not a ton different. I think it would look better for the Sox, but just slightly improved. Money is still king. Which is a JR issue. And will continue to be. winning and $$ don't necessarily go hand in hand, but there certainly is a positive correlation.

I'm a die hard Sox fan and the Sox wouldn't be my preferred destination either. As a player the goal to win would be above else for me. Nothing the Sox have done with JR at the helm give me ANY faith that my time with the sox over 7-10 years would be any different. When have we ever won consistently and played for WS year in and year out?? MM just left an organization like the Sox with the Orioles. 10k people showing up to game.. more opposing fans than home fans.. cold weather... I hate to do this since it's cherry picking and most will be butt hurt about it... take out 2005.. since JR has been owner we've won 1 playoff game in 1983. 2 playoff games in 1993. 1 playoff game in 2008. FOUR TOTAL PLAYOFF WINS IN THIRTY FIVE DAMN YEARS. (excluding 2005). That sounds like hell. The Sox can promise promise promise about these prospects and how its different and they'll spend now. But all this dragging out the machado signing for 2-3 months has proven to me is that the sox will always be the same while run by JR. He'd rather win the deal, win the Balance sheet, win the income statement then win consistently with the Sox. Because if he really was fed up with the status quo. He'd throw a 8th, 9th, or 10th year onto the deal. MM is 26. He's not 30 like past FA. You're going to get decent years out of MM as a 34 & 35 year old. Sorry for the rant, but I'm annoyed by this all. Being a sox fan sucks most of the time and we finally have a promising long term window and two of the most accomplished young FA available, in probably the WORST offseason for FA EVER and we still won't pony up because JR is counting his damn pennies trying to get the best DEAL instead of the best PLAYERS.

Yikes. I know the weather sucks and people are angry cause Machado wont sign his quarter Billion contract.. but yikes. a- government taxes suck. they are a necessity. however you can't run a country this big without pissing off someone. taxes $$ is spent rather inefficiently and needs more accountability. Also true is that throwing money at a problem rarely works, however a certain amount of money needs to be thrown at the problem so that children can eat and have a roof over their head. b- student loans suck. it turned college into a business. government should not be profiting off these loans. c- schools don't give equal opportunities. life isn't fair. not everybody is given a fair shake. that being said if one finds enough will power they can make a good life out of it. we should be inspiring our kids. with knowledge. with passion. with a damn idea of what kind of jobs pay. how to manage day to day life. how to manage day to day finances. d- quit trying to win arguments. find common ground. everybody is trying to win their conversations. it's a discussion forum to learn from others and enrich your day! e- machado sign please!

If Rawlings marketing and Twitter staff have been given the news then I think the whole world would know who Manny is signing with. Let's chalk it up to Rawlings wanting free press at a smart time.

This. We all fall in love with prospects and I truly think Eloy is the real deal however not all debuts go as planned. I think we all thought Moncada might have some struggles or Giolito or Fulmer, but basically it's more common that prospects fail to live up to their billings, especially in their first cup of tea. Hate to be Mr. Pessimism - but this is exactly why I think fans that think the Sox have more than a 1% chance of winning the pennant in 2020 are either a bit foolish or too optimistic. You'd have Cease, Kopech and maybe Dunning trying to go through their first season in a rotation. Kopech would likely be on an innings limitation. Likely all guys would be. It's also probably expected those guys would fizzle as the year goes on, and probably fool hearted to expect them to go through a grind of a season AND THEN pitch amazing in the playoffs. Same with bats... Madrigal, Robert, Adolfo, Collins, etc. would be taking lumps as well. Probably not as bad as pitching, but still guys that are going to have to learn to adjust at the major league level. I'm still aiming for a 2022 WS run. 2021 would be a very, very, very, successful early run in my book. A lot would have to go perfectly right if we are making REAL noise in 2020 or 2021 (real noise = winning more than 1 game in the ALCS)

Taking the thread in a different direction ... kinda... and probably been discussed somewhere in 600 pages.. but if you were Hahn and you signed Machado, what else would you do to complete your offseason. Even with Manny I still think we're probably 2 years from actually competing for a pennant. So therefore I'd be okay adding some players on short term deals while we figure out with more certainty how our prospects start panning out. There inevitably will be guys who look like studs in the minors and fizzle out in the majors or maybe that take a year or two to figure it out (Moncada & Giolito as examples -- likely these guys are going to need some time to work out their kinks) So that being said.. I'd do the following moves: Sign Adam Jones. He won't be a long term answer, but I'd give a 1year, $5mm deal, with a $2mm buyout and a mutual option for a second year at another $5mm. Low risk. He can play a league average RF. League average bat. A guy who has some left in the tank and the ultimate pro's pro. Having him in RF allows Engel to be your 4OF and late defensive replacement (at least once Eloy is up) Most of your season you'd have Eloy/Jay/Jones -- 4OF of Engel. (Pushes Delmonico to AAA - basically prove yourself and prove your opportunity. Pushes Palka to AAA likely as well, but maybe a bench spot as DH/1b/OF) Sign Evan Gattis to a minor league pact. $1-2mm if he makes the team. ideally I want McCann gone. I'd rather have Gattis as my backup catcher who spells Castillo about 20-30 games and can also fill in at DH. Nothing great about him, but he's better than McCann in my mind and doesn't cost much. Sign Peter Moylan. 1 year. $2mm. He has had a top 10 groundball rate over past few years combined. Maybe even a minors deal would work. Inevitably we're going to have issues with our SP where runners are on and we need a GB DP. I like him for this role. Sign 2 SP. I don't care. I want two. Injuries happen and always will. I'd take one high risk, oft injured, or one guy who you basically would be happy to get 100IP out of. Bucholz.... Ervin Santana.. I like either of those guys. Then I'd want Gio Gonzalez or Keuchel. I like Keuchel GB rate again. Gio has had some very nice years and a few down years. Ultimately I'd take the lower risk, shorter, cheaper deal in Gio. I'd go into the year with a 6 man rotation and see how it all shakes out over time. Rodon, Gio Gonzalez, Lopez, Nova, Giolito, Santana. Somebody gets hurt or loses his spot to inefficiency by June 1. Lineup: Jay, Machado, Abreu, Eloy, Jones, Moncada, Alonso, Castillo, Anderson BP: Colome, Herrera, Jones, Moylan, Fry, etc. Bench: Gattis (C/Dh) Yolmer (IF) Engel (OF) maybe Palka -- not sure if that fits. People screwed by these signings: Palka, Delmonico, Engel, and other shitty OF on the edge. Also McCann.. I dislike him. *** Note I'm not sure how signing 4-6 guys would mess up the 40 man and protecting certain guys.

Yes. I am pro racism. That's what I said in my post. You've joined my mute list. Welcome.

These types of subjects on message boards is what I live for! it quickly gives me an insight of how un/reasonable people are.

Racism story + internet = rabbit hole ... If my dad was a billionaire and racist it doesn't mean that I am a bad person. I think we've all had many topics we'd disagree with versus our parents.

In terms of a Cubs story it's basically nothing. What if Jerry Reinsdorf's dad said a racist comment? He'd be like 125 years old so it'd be amazing, but lets say he was alive and said something racist? It's not a Cubs story at all. Also I think it's pretty well known that the older generation may have more of a tendency to be racist in many regards than the younger generations. We have more access to information and cultures than ever before. All you can do is learn and grow. Take this as another step towards growth. On my 0-10 scale of shock and being offended by this story .. I sit at a 1.2

Separating ourselves from the siuation of trading Tatis, bringing back someone like Shields does really make sense. He eats innings and actually had a decent year. In terms of quality starts he had ONE less than Kershaw, Bauer and Gerrit Cole. I'd be very open to bringing back Shields as a true veteran leader who can mentor the young pitchers and give you 200ip of decent ball. At this point he probably couldn't cost more than $3-4mm.

I agree, Manny Machado is a good school teacher.. wait. what? I'll come back when he signs and we start putting together wish lists of remaining FA to sign and making hopeful future lineups.