he gone.

This is a very good take. I guess I didn't consider the past as much as I should have. I think the change may have to do with the newer "tanking" method as well. more and more teams are copying the tanking method of the cubs and Astros of past which is allowing more talented players to be available. Then the top teams acquire those guys creating super teams. Who knows how long that goes on for... pendulum always swings. So maybe by 2022 you do have a Royals/Giants or 83 win cardinals situation on your hands again.

Depends on what you, yourself, consider a contender. I think I'm in the minority that making the playoffs and being a TRUE contender for a ring are not mutually exclusive. If you believe that making the playoffs means you have a legit shot of winning it all, then I think it's realistic starting in 2021/2022. I just think there's a difference between making the playoffs with a young roster (particularly pitching) and coming out the other side with a ring.

We'll never find common ground on this, which is fine. My stance continues to be 9 of 10 times this isn't true. The Braves, Rockies, and Brewers had a very SLIM shot this year of winning it all. I understand this isn't the NBA, but even the perfect year for the Brewers... and let's say for fun they beat the Dodgers... they were not getting through the Red Sox gauntlet. That team was TIRED. Offense was fine.. the pitching was taxed. Odds entering playoffs in 2018 in Vegas pretty much mirror my thoughts. Los Angeles Dodgers: 9/2 Cleveland Indians: 8/1 Houston Astros: 7/2 New York Yankees: 7/1 Boston Red Sox: 3/1 Milwaukee Brewers: 7/1 Colorado Rockies: 10/1 Atlanta Braves: 12/1

Question wasn't for me, but I'll answer my own opinion. Contending for division -- as early as 2020, but realistically 2021 or 2022. Contending for a pennant -- as early as 2021, but realistically 2022 or 2023. Contending for a WS -- as early as 2022, but realistically 2023 - 2024. Obviously many, many moves can be made that change that timeline. Also development of our younger guys play an important role of moving this up or back. General feeling this: Kopech, Cease, Dunning, etc. have talent, but like any other rookie pitchers or batters will have their flashes of greatness and learning experiences. They will also have to build up innings and not fizzle as the year wears on. Then build up playoff experience. To me, 2020 is the learning experience, 2021 is putting it together, but when your arms fizzle down the end (think of Braves this year or Astros on their first year of making playoffs). 2022 is when you probably have expectations of winning an ALDS and where I'd be disappointed if we didn't. 2023 is when I start having WS expectations if all goes to plan. Again, this all can shift up a year or back a year based on injuries and setbacks. AKA -- kopech loses a year... if dunning ends up losing a year this year .... burdi losing a year ... adolfo losing half a year .... Robert losing half a year .... Hansen losing his control and prospect status .... fulmer being a bust ..... burger losing almost 2 years... This list will continue to grow. Maybe losing out on Macahdo and Harper.. etc. etc. etc. A successful (AND REALISITIC) rebuild (IN MY OPINION) would be this: 2019: Acquire Machado to 8-9 year contract ... I actually want him at ages 34/35. I think he's a pure bat ala Beltre, Pujols, MIggy. Don't think ages 34/35 will blow you away, but think he'll still be good. Acquire major league talent on a 2-3 year basis that pushes the young guys. learning experiences, no major injuries, giolito takes a nice step forward. lopez continues to progress. Get a good, healthy year out of Rodon to where we either extend or trade him. Moncada takes a giant step forward to being a fringe all-star each year. 77 wins and competitive through the whole year. 2020: Bring up Madrigal. Have one of our OF prospects force the issue and be up by June. Cease up. Kopech back. Have our top prospects learn at the MLB level. 82-85 wins. Be in the hunt through August. 2021: Build build build upon the last year. bring in TOP TALENT supplemental FA to fill holes of prospects that didn't pan out. spend spend spend. 90-94 wins. Win the division. win 1-2 playoff games 2022: Build upon the last year. no slump after making the postseason. 90-95 wins. Win ALDS series. compete in ALCS .. winning at least 2 games. 2023-2025: Make or win the World Series or Bust.

True. somehow missed that connection. my brain is mush. at least its not called Milwaukee county stadium and doesn't look like Milwaukee county stadium.. that place was a dump

he won sit out, but I do think if I were him I'd make sure any long term deal has a very easy opt out. I'd want to get out of the contract to be able to renegotiate after this next MLB strike.

AmFam is a Madison company btw. Insurance just isn't as sexy as beer.

to be fair, it is just a name change from one corporate sponsorship to another corporate sponsorship. It's not like it's Soldier Field having a name change.

Would love one.. would save me a lot of time in life rather than posting/stalking here for Machado news. I'd pray that Hill got traded just so I can remove myself lol

Anybody want to bet me they don't trade Rich Hill then? Send me a PM and we'll set up a gentleman's agreement and a PayPal exchange. $10. Keep it low value. You don't trade one of your most dangerous playoff shutdown pitchers when you're coming off back to back WS runs. Especially when the only available difference maker at the trade deadline is Bumgarner and on one of your rivals. You trade Puig's, Kemps of the world because they are relatively easy to replace. You trade away Homer Bailey, take on some of his salary and attach a prospect. you don't subtract from your current roster when you can't actively replace that position of need without spending more.

Why are the Dodgers trading Rich Hill? (don't say money) This is a team that's tied to Harper, and Pollock and bringing in Kluber... money is not an issue there. Plus who do they replace him with? Urias, Ryu? who? the rotation is full of injury prone guys. They want to caryy 6-7 guys as they did last year.

Another thing I'd add in this pursuit of Joc Pederson ... if the price is too high (I don't think it will be) then you can go out & look at someone like Carlos Gonzalez or Adam Jones, Not saying it's necessary at all. They'd both make the team a bit better, but don't think it's necessary. Both should be pretty affordable. Just saying there are a bunch of options out there that shouldn't cost the sox too much if that's the direction they want.

Rich Hill will not be traded. The reason we keep adding him into deals is cause we want him. Outside of Kershaw and probably Walker Buehler now, Rich Hill is their most valuable shut down type pitcher for the playoffs. I don't get why we keep adding him in on fake deals. Joc Pederson has value. Not sky high value though. He's a guy making $5mm in the arb process.. even with a nice year he'll be at like $8mm next year. Do you remember what Avi got offered this year? There you go.... Avi is a former all-star as well. Avi has the tools as well. Avi had nice exit velocity and flashes of power. Avi was non-tendered. Also, the Dodgers have OF's in waiting. They have Verdugo that can step right in. They'll sign Pollock if the rumors are correct on this Pederson/Pollock rumors. Then Bellinger in the OF as well. Teams are not knocking down doors to acquire Joc. The braves have some interest ... im sure others have interest... but he's not this hot commodity where we're giving up Hansen or Basabe.

So your definition of a few million dollars more is... Joc Pederson, 2 years ... say $13mm ... and you trade a mid-level prospect or someone like Fulmer, Bush v. Pollock, 3-4 years at $45-65mm ... and you have to give a compensation pick up which is likely more valuable at this time than Fulmer, Bush or any mid-level prospect we'd give up to acquire Joc. Got it. I'm here when you want to admit you're wrong.

Dude... come on now you're stretching things to fit some narrative or to try and force an argument. I didn't mention money. I simply was adding on to the last comment that it would be a 4-5 year commitment when we have OF's that are coming up hopefully sooner than that. Would seem foolish to lock into that for as you say.. an oft injured CF. Also, just for arguments sake .... you do realize that $12mm + $5mm is $17mm right? Also your argument is FOR an oft injured 30 year old and signing him for more money? I'm just not really getting any of your points.. Also if you want to talk money guesses.. I'd guess Pollock gets 4/$60mm or so. He's not settling for a McCutchen deal at 3 years. So my guess is 4 years at $15mm with a possible buyout or option for a 5th... again it doesn't really matter, the point is theres no reason to lock into a 4 or 5 year commitment when you have other cheaper, shorter term, less injured options out there and when you have OF prospects that should be up sooner than that timeframe.

It's a jump .... to conclusions mat. You put different conclusions on it.. and you JUMP to them. Come on man......

and a 4-5 year commitment where we have 4-5 promising OF's that are just 2-3 years out.

Danny Farquar signing a minor league deal has more latest posts than this thread... I think it's safe to say that we've reached Machado exhaustion.

I think we should wait to see who is traded ... I'm not nearly worried as many people are. These "prospects" rarely turn into much. For every Tatis trade there are 4 more Jeremy Reed trades. That's not to say I'm advocating trading our prospects for 2 years of a stop-gap.. I'm just saying that I don't think it will take that much to acquire Joc.

There is a difference between tanking and winning a world series. this whole "if we aren't winning this year we should just tank" mantra is tired. We had what ... the 8th pick a few years ago and picked Carson Fulmer.. it's not really where you pick as much as who you pick (also I realize this is probably the worst example as Benintendi went the pick before.. so the easy argument would be if we didn't win a few pointless games we could have him) What I'm saying though is most years there are just as many busts at 6 as there are at 15 or 24. By the theory above we don't need Rodon, Abreu, any of the bullpen guys we got, Yolmer... really anybody. We'll tank for 2 more years and then All of these minor leaguers are going to come up all at once and koom-by-yah were going to the world series!! These tank years are nothing more than a PR stunt and excuse for JR to line his pockets more.

We'll agree to disagree. I put Rich Hill and Morton in the same category. Morton is slightly more valuable because of health issues. If you told me Hill would have a completely healthy year, I'd take Hill, but that's as likely as the Sox making the playoffs this year. So yes, on the free agent market he's probably worth $10-13mm a year for a year or two contract. If Matt Harvey is getting what he did from the Angels and Garret Richards is getting $15mm to rehab... then Rich Hill can get $10-13mm easily. There are only so many pitchers that you can rely on in the playoffs.. and that is valuable. Rich Hill is one of those guys (if healthy). Rich Hill can be injured all year and the Dodgers don't care.. they need him in October. in regards to your six pitchers... check how many they carried last year... they have a nice reputation of fake DL trips and balancing their rotation pretty deep to manage innings pitched. This year will be no different. My guess.. and feel free to bookmark it.. they'll use all 6-7 pitchers... then come July go after a SP close to FA. maybe even Bumgarner to solidfy for their stretch run. On Abreu I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Check his stats since he's been on the Sox. I'll continue to keep him and look to extend him at a reasonable value of like 3/30 where he can serve as our DH.

Yes. That we won't get Rich Hill. Rich Hills market price is actually quite similar to his pay. For example Charlie Morton went to FA this offseason and got 2/$30mm. Also an older pitcher, also very solid KO guy. Another example that might ring more true to home for you is Jose Abreu. If you received Bryce Bush, Bummer or Fulmer in return for Abreu would you be happy? Okay, now imagine having Abreu on a team that just came off the WS two years in a row... would you now accept Fulmer in return to free up cap space? Finally, the Dodger rotation is not quite the greatest and will likely need and want to acquire a SP during this year.. what makes you think they would trade one? Kershaw is coming off many injured years... they have a young guy in Walker Buehler ... Ryu ... Maeda ... Urias ... Stripling ..... so let's put the cards on the tables. Why would they trade Hill? Anything else Mr. Greedy? This isn't MLB The Show 2019.... it's real life. Rich Hill isn't being traded and certainly not being traded as some add on to a Joc Pederson trade.

Message board Monday. First a rumor about Joc Pederson. People complain. then make up a scenario where the Dodgers are desperate to get rid of Rich Hill's contract when the Dodgers currently are looking at adding AJ Pollock and have been linked to Bryce Harper.... eofjiwaoiwjefawfo.. finally convince ourselves that we're doing the Dodgers some sort of favor taking on said contract and that all it'll cost is Carson Fulmer for both.... wefoiawfjoawjfwfij

The cubs convention was this weekend... it's all canned responses.... local media covers it a bit, but it doesn't make national news. Sox signing Machado will be national news. I don't care if Mark Giangreco gives an extra 30 seconds on his 5:00 sportscast to the Sox it equates to nothing in real life. nor do I care if the Score or Tribune cover it. The extra media coverage around SoxTalk does equate to dollars and cents or ticket packages sold. Signing Machado does. So if or when that happens really doesn't matter. (to me, that's my opinion.. obviously we're all different which is fine) It really is a nothing event put on for autograph hounds, families, and die hard sox fans.

I think sometimes posters put way too much stock in one season. Jon Jay has been at this on GOOD teams for almost a decade. He's fought off the Palka's and Engels and other prospects every single year. He continues to find playing time on teams... and continues to play roles on contending teams.. Cubs, Cards, Diamondbacks last year, etc. I get you're saying at this point in their careers. Also it's tough to compare the two as one is a home run guy and the other is a guy who can play all 3 OF positions and has a very, very strong track record of getting on base. The sox need less home run/strikeout/low OBP guys and more guys that can set the table for Abreu, Eloy and hopefully Machado. Having a guy like Jay get on base in front of those guys is entirely more valuable than Palka swinging for the fences out of the 6 hole.