he gone.

it will be interesting as time goes on to see how Cleveland balances this all out. they have a really nice core, but like Oakland, tb, Minnesota of the past ... they'll have to balance it all perfectly to maintain relevancy. Oakland were the kings of this in 2000's. TB has done a good job over the past decade. for our sake -- I personally hope cle doesn't do well in their endeavors but outside of that would like to see the small team survive. Personally a Verdugo return to me would be strong. He'd slot right in, probably 1 or 2 in the order as well.

we're all in basically the same agreement I guess. it's not a huge deal, but would rather see Hamilton than engel out there.

Yes and no... Engel probably tops out at 30sb over a full season and slightly worse with the bat. Hamilton gives you 40-60sb and has that former top pick allure that generally means nothing, but would be worth giving a spin. You're right, not much different, but I'd say Hamilton has a 25% more likelihood to make a difference on a future contending sox team.

It annoys me that the Sox didn't strike at $6-7mm on Billy Hamilton. Obviously there's so much more to come and maybe bigger moves based on this whole Harper/Machado thing... but Engel/Hamilton comparison is an easy one. Seems like a nice calculated risk to take on.

I haven't given it enough thought either way because it's probably a Candy Land idea anyways, but it would be interesting if we signed both to how it affects the team now and going forward. If we did this route it would be almost akin to the Cubs where we place a premium on bats since they play everyday. In theory builds a consistent team. Also it's not terrible depending on how you view our pitching prospects. Some assumptions: Abreu loves the direction of the team - resigns to be your 1b/DH for a reduced rate of $10-12mm a year for 3 more years after this. Your lineup around the diamond (assume 2020) Collins, Abreu, Madrigal, Anderson, Machado, Harper, Robert, Eloy. Moncada at DH -- but really, you'd just put whoever at DH -- could almost be anybody. Regardless -- we get it.... effing scary lineup and probably could compete for a WS every year on that alone. That being said, you couldn't sign a pitcher really... so you're relying on Rodon to be an Ace. Kopech to be your #2 and that he'd mature quickly enough to be a real threat in the postseason. that Giolito can be a serviceable 4/5, Lopez to be a 3/4, that Hansen maybe regains form and can slot in. Cease matures quickly and can be a #3. That maybe you draft a pitcher this upcoming year. You could then dangle your minors depth -- the adolfos, rutherfords, etc. etc. and hopefully get a pitcher midseason for WS runs. It's a risky proposition.. it's one where you're going ALL OUT during the next 5-6 years to win a world series... if it doesn't work youre saddled with expensive aging contracts and stuck in purgatory for another 5-10 years again as you pay Machado and Harper 40mm a year at ages 32-38. It almost feels like the Tigers now that I type it.... you go all out with your Victor Martinez, Miggy, Kinsler/Fielder, JD Martinez, etc etc. They continued to develop their young pitchers in Price, Scherzer, Verlander, Porcello, etc. and hoped that young stud pitching + great offense and spending would result in a WS title. Now they're stuck in that purgatory area. Summary: after typing out this scenario ---- screw it! I'd do it. That'd be a fun 5-7 years on the Southside. The chances of the Sox working this out perfectly where we become the STL Cards and perfectly manage young talent and smart FA signings on a somewhat smaller budget than the big dogs is slim to none. So why not go all out and have fun for once?

I like the rumors, but man are you feeding off the power of people wanting information, ha.

I like this idea. I still think the Sox have less than a 5% chance to actually sign Harper or Machado. Maybe thinking outside of the box makes sense here. Ideas: clause to make top 5-10 paid player in mlb, or top 3 OF in the league for a duration in the contract deferred revenue over a time period HEAVILY front-loaded contract to the tune of something silly like $60mm in year one when we likely won't compete - then like $30mm for years 2-5 with opt-out. ownership/equity stake in the sox attendance clause/escalator - I think Encarncion had one of these in Cleveland other?

Because you can get the same production out of Fiers, Shoemaker, etc. for a lot cheaper. Leake makes $15mm a year or so and pitches a 4era ball. He'll get you a 185 innings of okay ball as a 5 starter. You can do that with Shields for a lot less money. Shoemaker is never healthy, but his FIP is generally better when healthy. Only way you take any sort of flier on a Leake IMO is if they tie in a prospect of some sort or some useful piece. Even at that, I'd pass on Leake. We just rid ourselves of Shields. Don't want another dead weight contract. I'm up to exploring all options on Seattle though.

Beat me to the punch, was thinking about a thread on him. I am a BIG proponent of getting somebody at 3b. We never seem to be able to fill the spot. So in short, yes. I'd love Seager. I'll pencil his .250 BA and .315 obp into the lineup and 20hrs and whatever else comes along with it. I just want to plug that hole. The mariners GM is like a fantasy baseball/MLB the Show type of GM..... he's trade crazy. He loves pulling the trigger. Let's get creative! Wish we had a need for Segura too. Or maybe even Dee Gordon. (although he has a little juan pierre feel to him and no room for him). Basically I'd love to keep talking to the mariners and find something to matchup on .

It feels like more decent players were non-tendered this year than in the past. I figured I'd put a discussion thread to discuss said players instead of having separate ones for people like Billy Hamilton. List as follows: Billy Hamilton, Schoop, Wilmer Flores, Shelby Miller, Boxberger, McCann, Robbie Grossman, Mike Fiers, Justin Bour, Hunter Strickland, Matt Bush, Tim Bekcham, Blake Parker, Matt Shoemaker, Kendall Graveman, Avilan, Dan Jenning, Xavier Cedeno, Chris Owings. I'll start: Tier One -- pursue aggressively in my opinion: Matt Shoemaker - I've always liked him and rostered him quite a few times in fantasy baseball. I like his stuff, but coming off forearm surgery. I think he has a real chance if healthy to be like a Bucholz or Fiers, etc. of last year. I'd love to give him a chance. Which leads me to the other pitchers.. Kendall Graveman and Mike Fiers. I'd love to go after 2 of these 3 guys and let them fight it out as 5th starter/long man in the bullpen. Without a doubt there will be injuries, etc. Bullpen: I admittedly don't follow bullpens as well - but I'd kick the tires on any of our past three guys. If we liked one more than others then why not have a reunion? Bats: Hamilton intrigues me the most especially with nobody really blocking him or taking time away from any prospects. Other than that? I think Leury and Yolmer are about the same as a Wilmer Flores, Tim Beckham, Chris Owings, etc. So although I do have some interest, not enough to sign. Likewise for a Grossman, etc. I think Hamilton fits because of defense and speed and position, but I'd pass on the other bats. So in recap: Shoemaker, Graveman, a former Sox bullpen guy if Coop liked them, and Billy Hamilton.

He can still be our backup plan, but lets go fry some bigger fish.

I like it? Or I don't? I'm not sure. I always said Avi was like a hot-ex girlfriend who was a bit crazy. When you think you were done with her she'd reel you back in. Every time I hated Avi he'd go on a mini run or do something like 2 years ago. And then follow it up with his normal junk. But then ride a hot streak again.. I think it's good to move on and delete him from all social media and my phone. Undoubedtly he'll marry onto the Astros or Indians or something and have a ton of success and be rich. I'll be upset. Such is life with Avi Garcia, the hot ex girlfriend.

I think the price will ultimately end up being too high because of his name/past pedigree/speed so I see someone else overpaying. However, I wouldn't mind trying him out in CF over Engel and other in house options at this point.

I'd non-tender Davidson, tender Avi and Leury. (Dependent on how convos and progress are going on trades and FA talks). If Hahn has a good feeling or made progress on trades for the OF then I don't think you take on Avi.

Yikes. I take away my support of a Cano trade to the Sox if that was the asking price.... I get the Swarzak and Bruce part -- two years and $26mm left. Swarzak has 1 year and $7mm? That's off the top of my head, so apologize if that's incorrect.. Let's say the Mariners throw in $15mm - that basically equates to $48mm or two years of Cano deal being eaten by the Mariners. If following my wonky math still... the trade is Cano, 3 years and $72mm and Diaz to the Mets Mariners receive Bruce and Swarzak for a period of time and Kelenic. I call that a win for the Mariners. (my assumption is $15mm is going back in the deal to the Mets -- that's complete guess work). I think it's crazy the mets would include a prospect. I'd rather just take on Cano and not tie in Diaz than give up Kelenic.

Didn't say anything about age, defense or PED's. Just giving stats of players that are considered available. Two of them cost $40mm a year. One is $24mm and you can get a Diaz included for free or possibly Haniger if you send back an asset or two back in their direction. Just saying I'd be interested in talking the Mariners.

Not trying to bait anybody and not really interested in hammering this subject much more. Me saying that I'd have Hahn CONSIDER and do due diligence spiraled into this. I think it's quite clear that no sane human puts beating a woman on the same level as cheating on a woman. That'd be silly. If you think that's the hill im trying to die on I'd have to be crazy and dumb. My point I was trying to get across was merely that I find it interesting psychologically where we draw the line as humans.... Addison Russell = BAD! But at the same time I've read this board where the majority were in favor of considering a Yasiel Puig trade or perhaps signing Jeurys Familia as a FA. Look no further than Chapman and the Cubs. It's a blurred line that shifts to fit our own narratives.

OPS+ over the last three years: Harper: 133 Cano: 129 Machado: 128 That being said, if the Mets are eating a part of the contract AND giving back a guy like Kelenic?? I'd take the whole Cano contract if you gave me Haniger as the incentive and throw in like Carson Fulmer and Basabe... but that's about it.

I knew this would digress, so not taking the bait. I'm not sure where In my response I said " I SUPPORT ADDISON RUSSELL AND BEATING WOMEN". In case it's not clear - I do not advocate spousal abuse. I said I'd do my due diligence. To think we know the whole story is being naïve. Let Hahn or whoever else is paid to do so -- do the work and come to a conclusion. I think it's likely to lead to the conclusion we'd assume, but I think you do the due diligence.

I chuckled to myself when I read the topic because I knew that the response would be just this. As a society we have the tendency to really be social justice warriors and identify people as "good" or "bad". And we naturally want to be on the good team. Now don't let that previous paragraph be misconstrued as support for Addison Russell or for trading for him, however it's just funny to me that we are so dismissive of Russell and act like the rest of the team are saints and loving, devoted husbands blindly. They may not be beating their wives but I have been to many a bar where Sox players have frequented and I'll just say the large majority are not choir boys. Why or how we decide how much abuse is fine for us to be a fan of players is bizarre to me. Again this is not me advocating for Russell, but think it's crazy to think a 24 year old person with the right guidance and counseling couldn't change. All that being said. I'd CONSIDER Russell for 3B based on many factors. I wouldn't open the door without consequences - however I would at least do due diligence. if you have boundaries and rules in place and he abides -- then I don't see why you don't consider.

mlbtraderumors does attach haniger as a possibility to cano's contract as well. so let's just play for fun and say the sox decided this was the move ... kind of an Alex Rios move of sorts.. let's then put Haniger in CF (played 35 games in CF last year) and build out the defense. Let me preface this with he's a below average CF, but maybe he can man it for 1-2 years before shifting into LF/RF.\ Lineup for 2019 and 2020: Cano- 3B Haniger- CF Bryce Harper - RF (follow along in dream scenario) Abreu - 1b Eloy - LF Palka - DH Moncada- 2b Anderson - ss You add on $65mm of payroll ($40mm for Harper for 5 years) and then opt out -- so front loaded, and then $24mm for Cano. You now have for the next 5 years -- Cano, Haniger, Harper, Eloy, Moncada, Anderson locked in. Shift Cano to DH when Abreu time is up, Harper to 1B, Haniger to RF and add Robert to CF 2 years from now. You shift the infield to include Madrigal 1.5 years from now & add him to the core. Future lineup -- all locked in for 3 years. Madrigal - 2b Haniger - RF Eloy - LF Harper - 1B Moncada - 3B Robert - CF Cano - DH Anderson - SS All you have to do is sign Harper (obviously BIG IF AND UNLIKELY) and take on Cano's contract.

I mean... I don't really get this stance. He's played 150 or more games every year since he was 23 years old. This year he played 80 ... was suspended for 80. So he played in 80 of 82 games. He produced a .303 batting average. .374 on base percentage, doubled 22 times ... homered 10 times, and knocked in 50rbis. Just by simple doubling math - that'd be 44 doubles, 20 homers and 100rbis over a full season. In fact he's played 159 of 162 games in 8 of his last 12 seasons ( 156, 157, 150, 80 (PED) in other seasons) I think it's kind of foolish to think he can't play more than 75 games at DH anymore... Of the 80 games played - he DH'ed 2 times and played 1B 14 times. The rest were at 2B and 2 games at 3B. Based on his remarkably consistent career I think it's fair to assume he's more cut from the Adrian Beltre cloth than some of these other superstars. I think it's very reasonable to actually think he could play 2 more 3-4WAR seasons (has had one season in 2008 where he was under 3oWAR) where you get the $24mm worth of his contract at 3B (plus Haniger in my dream scenario by attaching a mid-level prospect). After that? I think 2 0 WAR seasons I think is acceptable in a Ben Zobrist role. Final season is a BATH. money down the toilet. https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/canoro01.shtml

Just the way of the world on message boards I guess.. Everybody loves to argue a point and take sides. I'm more or less just throwing out ideas for discussions from boredom at work. Don't think it's insane to tie a good contract to a bad contract.

I completely realize Cano's age and the history of players at ages 37, 38, etc. however I would direct some of you to his baseball reference page -- I think you may be surprised. He hasn't show a real drop off yet. I think it's very realistic that you get 2 above replacement seasons out of him. Then maybe 2 replacement level seasons and then one season where it's a complete loss (which also be during a hopeful serious Sox run with $24mm of dead money on the books). But if you attached Diaz or Haniger for eating that whole contract? That's my whole question. Seems like the board is pretty unanimously against it though. I'd be on the fence.. my biggest issues with a situation like this is: a) $24mm in years 4/5 when we'll hopefully be in the thick of it b) cano does indeed fall of the cliff in production right away.

What a world we live in - we're all so excited to jump down others throats! Yikes! Maybe it wasn't phrased correctly, I was trying to say that if we were in the Mariners shoes where we were stuck at 78-84 wins per year (like we have been in the past) and it was time to make a move..... like the situation they are in........ and the WHITE SOX had a Cano like contract of 5 years and 120mm to a fictitious player that I personally would be willing to attach a Moncada or Lopez type guy to said contract to get that player off the balance sheet. I say this as a White Sox fan -- not a Yankees or cubs or red sox fan. A contract like Cano's can really hinder a Mariners team. A white sox team. A royals team. a pirates team. Cleveland, etc. To be able to rid that long term liability would be absolutely huge for the Mariners and would allow their current GM to then have King Felix AND Cano off the books for next years free agency and put his own stamp on the club.