he gone.

QUOTE (wrathofhahn @ Feb 26, 2018 -> 12:53 PM) I think he realizes that which is why he's trying to transition to SS. Last year he was essentially a 4 WAR player if he did that again at 3B he can kiss 300 milllion goodbye. He'll he can kiss 200 million goodbye. If he proves he can play SS however he knows teams will pay a premium regardless if he has a down year Bringing it back to Moustakas he's a 2 WAR to 2.5 WAR player he clearly doesn't have the upside defensive wise but is the question would I rather spend 3/33 on Moustakas bandaid 3B for 3 years and sort of see where we are at in 2020 well that would be preferable. That's my take too. I'll take the here and now at a discount rather than wait it out. Especially at a position where we've historically had trouble plugging. And one that outside of Burger? I really don't see a solution. (I also don't think Burger is the solution nor do I think he'll be above replacement level in 2018 (obv. reasons- in minors), 2019, or 2020.) Here are our choices: Internal - Yolmer, Davidson, Burger External 2018 - Moustakas, Jung Ho Kang (If he were ever to get cleared and come back - could see getting him for practically free for 1-2 years) External 2019 - Donaldson, Machado -- then big drops to guys like Headley and Jose Reyes who I wouldn't even entertain External 2020 - Arenado, Castellanos, Rendon, Todd Frazier External 2021 - Jake Lamb Internal -- Anderson, Moncada, draft picks? Would seem like it'd be a player playing out of his position - not a fan. On that list: Moustakas - can drive your own terms from anywhere between 3-5 years at decent price Jung Ho Kang - competing against nobody, not sure I'd want him or he'd even represent anything better than Yolmer, don't see any reason to get involved Donaldson - if Machado is a SS? Donaldson is the #1 target of teams, is a bit older, would expect to be overpaid Machado - I like the guy. I'm okay with 8 years and $250mm but can see how giving a contract like that to a team that historically has a lower payroll effects the future Rest of 2019 class? - Garbage Arenado - Same thought behind Machado. I'd pay whatever necessary. Also think like the Yanks and Machado that we'd be a dark horse and wouldn't count on us signing him Castellanos - he's been improving, but sounds like Detroit has been trying to extend him too, so who knows if he'll be available or if he's really gonna get much better Rendon - would be a solid option Frazier - hard pass Lamb - I'd hope by 2021 we're still not searching for a 3b Other/Trade - always an option, and probably a solid one when looking at the above options. So looking at that list... what does the board think now. Obviously pie in the sky options of Arenado and Machado are best, but also come with the downside of paying ONE guy a huge contract while you have a number of younger guys who project to be stars and may need the money too. We almost have to think like the Rays or A's and not go too heavy on any one guy unless we go ALL-IN on smaller window After that? What? Pay Donaldson too much? Rendon would be solid. But Moustakas represents a really solid option. I get it's not that inspiring, but I'd take him on a 3-4 year deal and cross of 3B on the list. We have prospects in almost every other position that look strong..OF, SS, 2B, C, pitching arms, etc. 3B is our biggest long-term hole. I'd like to get rid of it and think this would be a safe option. My final verdict: Give him 4 years, $48mm

I'd disagree and say it IS about plugging holes. Especially if you like the guy (Sox seem to if they are even considering giving up a pick). I'll put it this way... I think it's more probable than not that the Sox have a lineup in 2019 and 2020 where we NEED a 3B. Rather than overpay for a Mark Teahen type in 2020 via FA or trade, I'd sign a Moustakas this offseason for cheap than market price now. Giving him 3 years and $30-39mm hurts us in no way. Shoot, go out and sign Machado, Donaldson, Arenado still. At $13mm you can just move him over to DH if you can land a Machado. This whole thing that the Sox and JR spin about "rebuild" and how we act like a lower salary this year means anything to us? That's marketing hogwash. My ticket is the same price. My beer is the same price. My parking is the same cost. The only person benefitting is JR and his team. JR will spend the same amount next year regardless of is Moose is on this team. Another thing we ignore? Machado doesn't even want to play 3B. So go out, sign Moustakas. If the Sox can't go out and sign guys next year because they have $10mm more on the books this year we have bigger problems to worry about.

This post is off the top of my head... and without checking stats. So take it FWIW. What do we really think our chances of signing Machado are? I think like some of players of past that we will make an EFFORT, but one where we ultimately will fall, very short. I can see JR throwing out like an 8 year, $210mm contract and the Yanks going to 9 years, $270mm and then the Sox turning around and being like, well, we tried!! I really think the chances of Machado signing at like 5-10%. At that point is anybody really confident with an aging Donaldson who, as he loses a step loses his defensive edge and probably his pop a bit. Then you wait for Arenado and hope the Rockies don't resign him and also nobody else does too... I can just see a situation where 2-4 years from now we are sitting around plugging in Mark Teahen like we have at 3B for the past 20 years (save for a few Crede years) I'd be okay signing Moustakas as kind of a Todd Frazier plugging of a hole. It's not going to win you a championship in the long term, but it also eliminates a hole.

QUOTE (ChiliIrishHammock24 @ Feb 23, 2018 -> 12:28 AM) I've always like CarGo. I think he would be fun on like a 2 yr/$16M deal or something. I'd think you could get away with a 1 year, $4mm deal at this point... I don't think there's any reason to attach a second year on the deal unless as an option. 2 years and $16mm might get you Logan Morrison at this point.

I would think we have a better chance of bringing in a Moustakas than another OF based on Hahns comments a few days ago. He basically said he doesn't want to block the guys in AAA from getting a look. Moustakas doesn't block anybody except Sanchez and is a fall back option if/when we don't sign Machado and pass on Donaldson. Shall see though.

Don’t want to be the downer here, but I feel there was some of this same hype after Saladino flashed some decent signs a few years ago. I honestly see him as the 24/25 man on our roster at best. In a perfect situation he’s a guy who can offer flexibility at 1b/dh and corner of. But if I had to guess, I’m putting him as not onthe team in 2020.

I think the question to whether we should sign/trade for Dickerson/ any other remaining FA is kind of ridiculous. If it makes the team better now, and into the future, you consider it. The reasoning's behind most people's stance seem to be to let the kids play. So instead of arguing the merit for or against Dickerson I'd like to discuss the guys we have and how people rank their prospects in the future with this team. I'll run through each of the guys, and give my blurb of what I think they could be on a Championship caliber team. Matt Davidson - Best case scenario is last year with a few more walks and a few less strikeouts. Even at that I don't see him as a key to the future. Saladino - I think he was given the chance, is a bit older, and is a career UTIL for maybe 1-2 years before he's ulitimately in AAA or retires. Leury Garcia - I think has a real chance to be a super UTIL on a Sox team contending for the playoffs. Would like to see him get playing time. Yolmer - I've soured on him over time. I used to be huge proponent of his and oddly am not anymore even coming off a top year. I realize there is no real solution at 3B for this year and think he represents the best option both short and long term currently so would like to see him get the AB's. I don't think a Moustakas should be an option because of the draft picked tied to him. Tilson - sucks to see an injury take him out of contention. Best upside? Maybe a 4OF? Engel - quite frankly I'd rather have a full health Tilson over Engel. Unless he found a magic bat I don't care about his playing time. I'm content with him in AAA figuring out his swing. If something clicks then let him get another shot. Cordell - I think he lumps in somewhere above Engel and maybe right below Tilson. Worth a shot, but if another option is available to make the team better, I wouldn't hold back on the account of Cordell/Tilson/Engel Delmonico - I know he gets love from this board. I personally think that in the year 2020 he won't be on this team. I see this year maybe, next year as a UTIL and 2020 gone. I get he's still young. I get his OBP is decent. I dunno, I'm skeptical, but don't mind him getting playing time this year over other options. So my rankings? Leury, Yolmer, Delmonico -- I'd be for letting them play and seeing what we have for another year. Tilson, Engel, Cordell, Saladino, and Davidson I'd rather them prove something consistently in AAA and EARN playing time. Not just be given it because we're not contending. Which leads me to Dickerson - I understand his faults, but you're talking a guy who went to an All-Star game, can/will hit 30HR this year, entering his prime, and is controllable. I'd let him play DH for us and take some time in LF. Just cause we suck doesn't mean I should have to watch Engel and Cordell struggle against MLB pitchers. Let them do that in Charlotte and if they are producing bring them up to prove it and take time away from a Dickerson. We have to build a winning culture and you do that by signing the best available guys.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 15, 2018 -> 09:43 AM) Seconded. Great read. Very good read. I've always liked Jake. I will say the part about the divorce made me roll my eyes a bit though... his stance as the victim doesn't really jive with my personal experiences of his escapades. Other than that I wish him well in a comeback. Hopefully he can do well. Can see him as a pitching coach or on a coaching staff down the line.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Feb 16, 2018 -> 12:25 PM) There's also Logan Morrison. He's LH primarily DH /!b and if you like road splits his were insane . Over a 1.000 OPS. He also knows how to take a walk which not a lot of Sox know how to do besides Moncada.. This. As we add talent we need to add guys that walk and don't strikeout as much. I Know we've focused on this in the past few drafts, but wouldn't be bad to add FA who have a history of doing so too. I have no problem with free swingers. I actually kind of like it. However if you have a whole team of those guys it can kill a rally prerty quickly.

QUOTE (BrianAnderson @ Feb 13, 2018 -> 10:19 AM) Hector Santiago – From memory, and not numbers, I remember his time with the Sox being pretty good. I'm not good at this quoting thing ... I wanted to just highlight the Hector blurb. oh well. I guess Rick Hahn reads the board.. Hey rick, go get Cahill next. And trade for Profar.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Feb 13, 2018 -> 02:11 PM) Rasmus or Revere probably aren't better short-term either. Which is why there isn't a line to sign them...most teams have interesting 2nd tier prospects like Delmonico et al (While I am a sucker for sweet Septembers, I'm really looking forward to seeing Delmonico play this year). If you attached either Rasmus or Revere's line to Delcomnico or Cordell/Tilson I think we would be quite happy. Both have their holes though no doubt. Rasmus could probably be expected to post a Todd Frazier lite type of line. .230 or so BA, strikeout way too much. Knock 20-25HR's and play all OF positions. I guess when I type that out it doesn't sound so great... haha Revere probably has the better promise. I think you could expect .290BA, limited strikeouts and 25SB. But definitely get it I guess. The more I run their stat lines & the more I type the more I fall in line with just signing a few more arms and leaving our bats as is. My interest remains in Profar, Lucroy and all pitchers though.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Feb 13, 2018 -> 12:52 PM) Profar is competing with three guys for the LF job in Texas. The question is who would the Rangers want back in return? If he could play 3b, that would be huge, as well. The more talent, the better. Profar can quite literally play the whole infield and some outfield too. He's Zobrist (not really, but kind of). I find it so odd that hes buried in TX and that no other team has come calling.

When I brought up the list I was actually really surprised to see Cahill. Forgot he was even out there. https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/i-guess-now...cahill-is-good/ Good article on him. I mean, he did awful after this. But if he can rediscover that magic with Coop and Duncan you might have yourself a very affordable piece for the future. I'd go so far to offer him a 2 year deal with a 3rd year option and stick him in the bullpen. Type of piece that could really pay off in a few years. The other name I liked, although not a FA was Profar. I have no idea his trade value anymore, but man would I like to see him given a shot to play 100-130 games at the MLB level. He is super talented. Had a higher walk rate (11% v 9%) than strikeout rate. That's gold to me. Also hit .300 in the minors last year, puts the ball in play, can play the diamond in many positions. I mean, he made the majors in 2012! At 19! Getting paid $1mm this year.

I feel like I may be beating a dead horse as I continuously drive this narrative. It’s just such a crazy year out there. I feel like you could field a team of bad news bears with these FA’s and turn in a playoff team. There’s just that much talent available. Two things I get: - Let the kids play. They are on rookie contracts for cheap, let them play, see what we have. No reason to bring in vets and pay them their minimum. - We likely aren’t going to be the Twins of last year and surprise folks. (I would counter that with if the Royals don’t acquire some players we’ll have the Tigers and Royals as really, really poor teams. The same way the Twins loaded up on W’s against us and the Tigers last year and snuck in) The link is to the alphabetical list of FA’s remaining. I picked a few I like. Feel free to counter my arguments. http://www.espn.com/mlb/freeagents/_/type/available Colby Rasmus – with the amount of OF’s we have, this may not have upside, especially at 30 years old. But this is a guy when he gets 400-500AB’s is guaranteed to play average defense at all 3 positions and can hit 25HR’s for you. Can probably pick up on a Jurickson Profar (not FA – but trade candidate) – played 1b, 2b, ss, 3b and is still what? 25 years old. Needs out of TX. A guy who hit the majors at 19. Perceived to be an attitude problem, but hey, I’ll take a shot on him all day every day. Flip them whoever and let’s see if it works out. Trevor Cahill – if you look at his advanced numbers he to me is my #1 FA I’d like to sign. Coop and Duncan could make this guy into a really nice piece moving forward. Andrew Bailey – His numbers don’t lie. Love adding bullpen pieces. RA Dickey – Older. Probably a 1 year deal if he feels like playing. But an innings eater and last year after he got going was actually really serviceable. Just another good veteran guy in the clubhouse who does it the right way. AJ Griffin – I’d say to look at his career numbers. Really serviceable. Injury history. Lower on the arms I’d take a flier on. Francisco Liriano – talk about an up and down guy. And Coop couldn’t really fix him first go round with the Sox. But the Pirates did. He’s the classic “a tweak away” from being really good. Or maybe you just utilize him in the bullpen. Would think it would be cheap to bring him in and the type guy that could be flipped for a decent amount if he becomes dominant in the bullpen under Coop and Duncan J. Lucroy – this is a guy I wanted more than Castillo. But maybe you can find him a spot platooning at C, 1B and DH. I think you could find him 120 games with that method. He flourishes? You can easily flip him for prospects. Ben Revere – a guy who has basically hit .300 consistently minus a really down years with the Nats in 2016. Can swipe you 25-30 bags with enough playing time and doesn’t strikeout Hector Santiago – From memory, and not numbers, I remember his time with the Sox being pretty good. Ichiro – okay stay with me on this one – it’s an outside the box idea and frankly I have no idea of Ichiro’s English. But going back like 5? Years when KW mentioned that he floated the idea of Konerko as a player manager? Ichiro said he wants to play for as long as possible. What about an idea of him as 4OF + coach? I know this is a wacky one. But in the same way Abreu is teaching these guys by example I’ve heard that Ichiro is the type of guy to be at the ballpark 6 hours before the game like Thome was and has crazy preparation. I can’t see it hurting to have a guy like that teaching your young talent. My overall thought process simplified: - Engel, Willy Garcia – see 5% and 0% chance long term respectively. Engel for sure if he could figure out his bat.. but don’t think itll happen - Demonico, Tilson, Cordell – Yes I’d like to see them play. I don’t necessarily think a Rasmus or Revere is better long term – just food for thought - I’m bigger on the pitching aspect. I feel like as proven last year at the deadline that you can flip an arm for something (Jennings/Swarzak) but not a bat (Melky) as easily. I also think Shields/Gonzalez etc. won’t net you a prospect no matter what, so if you can bring in someone else that DOES possibly net you something? You do it. Plus those two aren’t in your long term plans either. Also we owe nothing to those guys in the bullpen. So bring in as many arms as possible. - Which leaves Lucroy and Profar – if you can convince Lucroy to come over I’d love to have him split between C/1B/DH. Profar is has just too much upside and can play so many positions that I would love that gamble. I get not all these guys have a fit, but I can’t see the cost being inhibitive. I also know we aren’t trying to win this year – but is it so crazy TO TRY to win? Instead of schlepping Shields out there every 5th day, why not move him to middle relief/mop up duty? Replace him with an RA Dickey or Franky Liriano, Cahill, Santiago? Never can have too many arms and Rodon is down likely til June. Also a lot of these FA’s may be inclined to take a Spring Training invite and minor league deal… especially with a team like the Sox that is supposed to be bad. Gives them the best shot to earn a spot.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 8, 2018 -> 03:16 PM) What odds that Swarzak would have been a flippable arm? 5%? 2%? I mean, you are completely right. Anything is possible and I cheer for him to do great - it's a cool story from my hometown. I am just very skeptical when people expect just because Coop and Duncan are aboard that every project could be great. I personally hope he does do great and is part of the team to come - it's just my personal opinion playing with him since little league (not saying that means a thing in terms of skill - obviously players develop .... I mean that as someone who watched his career for that long) that I see him more as organizational depth. I think his best way to stick on the team is in a long relief/mop up roll. Otherwise I think he'll be a 30IP guy who bounces between AAA and Majors and susceptible to being picked up off of waivers.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jan 23, 2018 -> 10:27 AM) What's the relevance in this comment when talking about how he is now or if he can toss a career year? The relevance is stating I've followed his career since he was 16. I think that qualifies me to give an opinion over the guy who couldn't spell Swarzak. I don't get why you would try and be keyboard hero for no reason. I've followed him with more interest than anybody on this board. Can you give me a reason why you think he'll be a candidate like Swarzak? Can anybody else on this board tell you off the top of their head about him being drafted by the Yankees, playing at Bradley, having surgery, his draft status, his time with the Rockies, Pirates, Brewers? Do I need to go on? This board is so annoying sometimes. So like I said, he's got some heat on his fastball, but saying he's going to somehow turn into a flippable arm in 3 months time isn't happening. He's got less than a 50% chance making the team. Will probably be called up and sent down a few times throughout the year based on injury and likely is picked up by another team before 2018 is up.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 1, 2018 -> 01:20 PM) Translation: White Sox do not have a radio home as of today. RadioInsight.com‏ @radioinsight US Bankruptcy Court has approved Cumulus’ request for termination of 14 contracts. Awaiting ruling on Merlin Media deal for sale of WKQX/WLUP Chicago. I think it's because not many people listen..... I personally don't care either. I've listened through my app on my iphone the past few years. I couldn't tell you what channel they were on the past 3 years anyways.

QUOTE (ChiliIrishHammock24 @ Feb 6, 2018 -> 10:44 PM) The $50M rule only affects the team receiving the comp pick. If it's more than $50M, the comp pick is after the 1st RD. If it's less than $50M, the comp pick is after the 2nd RD. The team signing the player still loses a pick. Forgot the pick tied to it. I'd reverse my interest in Moustakas. They need to revise that rule even more in my opinion.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Feb 6, 2018 -> 02:07 PM) If he goes back into free agency a year, he would be consolation prize to those teams who need a 3B and didn't sign one of Machado and Donaldson. And if he takes a 2 year deal, he's a consolation prize for anyone who doesn't sign Arenado. aka, us next year or the year after.... I love me some White Sox and I want to believe in Machado or Arenado, I'm just not hopeful.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 6, 2018 -> 12:37 PM) I continue to dislike the concept and will respond with "play the kids" under any and all circumstances. Put Sanchez at 3b this year and let's see what he's got. To do this right, we have to rebuild for 1 more year. That's all we have to do, keep the powder dry for 1 more year, play the kids, and don't get distracted from the main goal. I get this, but at the same time ... dry powder this year might be a hell of a lot cheaper. I feel like teams have saved their cash for next years' FA market. So maybe for a complete guessing game..... What do you think Moustakas gets on the market next year if he takes a pillow contract this year? Maybe next year he gets the 5 year deal at like $75mm (15mm average). If that's the case, I don't see the issue of taking a shot at 4yr/44mm this year when the Sox have been historically really bad at plugging 3B. My other issue is I really don't trust Yolmer -- and that's coming from a really pro-Yolmer guy since like 2015 (also coincidentally after his best year in the majors). Yolmer types are better suited as super utilities or as #9 guys on teams. You can have one MAYBE two yolmer type guys on your team as starters if you're really actually serious about playing for a championship. (This is where WAR arguments are always brought up -- I get he had a good WAR last year)

QUOTE (BrianAnderson @ Feb 6, 2018 -> 12:10 PM) We are now, what ..? A week from pitchers and catchers reporting? I think we've kind of all come to the consensus that we'd rather sit this FA out and let the kids play and figure out what we have. I am in this consensus after swaying a bit. With the Sox having a hole at 3B for basically 15 years minus a few years of Crede -- and then somewhat with Frazier.. would you CONSIDER taking on Moustakas if you could get him at 4 years and $40-48mm? Listen, I'm not even a Mous fan, I am just asking the temperature to a deal like that. A guy who you could lock up from age 29-33 and hits 30HR a year. The interested parties have dwindled QUICKLY, and if there is someone you can get for a big, big discount I think it's him. I personally would consider under these circumstances. - a deal that is at least 3 years, but not longer than 4 years. - a deal that has an AAV of no more than $12mm, but hopefully closer to $10mm - a deal that doesn't have any opt out (we don't need him at all in year 1, and probably year 2) I consider this because of our history at 3b, that if you don't truly believe in BUrger sticking at 3B, and with the consideration that this doesn't preclude you from going after Machado and putting him at SS. (Figure out Anderson later) I just read Boras represents him. So don't see any of this happening. If I had my prediction I'll say he signs a pillow contract... maybe a 2-3 year deal with an out after year one. I'll call $13mm a year.

We are now, what ..? A week from pitchers and catchers reporting? I think we've kind of all come to the consensus that we'd rather sit this FA out and let the kids play and figure out what we have. I am in this consensus after swaying a bit. With the Sox having a hole at 3B for basically 15 years minus a few years of Crede -- and then somewhat with Frazier.. would you CONSIDER taking on Moustakas if you could get him at 4 years and $40-48mm? Listen, I'm not even a Mous fan, I am just asking the temperature to a deal like that. A guy who you could lock up from age 29-33 and hits 30HR a year. The interested parties have dwindled QUICKLY, and if there is someone you can get for a big, big discount I think it's him. I personally would consider under these circumstances. - a deal that is at least 3 years, but not longer than 4 years. - a deal that has an AAV of no more than $12mm, but hopefully closer to $10mm - a deal that doesn't have any opt out (we don't need him at all in year 1, and probably year 2) I consider this because of our history at 3b, that if you don't truly believe in BUrger sticking at 3B, and with the consideration that this doesn't preclude you from going after Machado and putting him at SS. (Figure out Anderson later)

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Feb 5, 2018 -> 01:57 PM) Not to be callous, but the death of Jose Fernandez really messed up their chances to win. I mean think about the White Sox pre-selloff if suddenly Chris Sale just straight up disappeared. Not something you can just recover from. Totally forgot about him! True, you add him back into the mix? You are probably just one FA or trade for another strong arm from being right in it for 3-4 years. That really sent that team into a tailspin.

The Marlins seem to be doing a really brokea** Sox rebuild a year later. Thank god we have Hahn and not Jeter and Co. You look at all these talented guys being auctioned off and you think to yourself how the hell didn't they compete.. Yelich Ozuna Gordon Stanton Realmuto Then you still have okay pieces in Bour, I forget their third baseman off the top of my head,.. the overpaid, but decent 3B. I mean, they had a heck of a lot of talent but no real SP. Kind of the Sox, but opposite. We had Sale and Q and company, but just not enough bats. Then when didn't have what we needed to trade or acquire them to finish the team. Has to suck to be a Marlins fan.

I think Milwaukee got a steal there. They really didn't give away much in this trade - think Miami did a poor job. I think Hahn did talk to them, but not sure why Miami went after what they did. I think Miami wanted someone who was going to be in the majors this year to weaken the blow, and they accomplished that. Exactly why I think they woulda taken Anderson + Rutherford + Cease. But oh well.