he gone.

haha. that's not what i said. I said i'd be open to exploring 3rd base as well. Vargas is a 3rd baseman/OF. He's not necessarily known for his fielding and has bounced around 1b, 2b, 3b, LF. he kind of feels like burger as a quick comparison but admittedly dont know very much about his defensive grading. I'm just saying if you have 3 options on the table for liam and one of the options is a Jung or a Vargas I wouldn't discount it on the account of Yoan who in all likelihood is only here for a few more years, is expensive, has experience at 2B, and hasn't performed up to standards. If you find a return that makes the team better to where yoan has to slide over, I'd consider it. I'ts really not that controversial.

Also in 2021 he graded out at 1 run prevented and 2 OAA, again both middle of the pack. It's not a knock on the kid, but he's not exactly champan or kebryan hayes out there with the glove/arm. If his bat is working and hes taking pitches and has value there ... fine... but he hasn't consistently done that. I'm not outwardly looking to upgrade 3b, but if the opportunity presents itself then we need to consider it and be open to moving him around the diamond to make us a better team.

Curious, what site/grade do you use? 2021 he had a good season. his 2022 had a UZR of 1.2. His dWAR graded out as 0.5. His outs above average rated at 4 which is 11th. Runs prevented was 11th His arm strength graded out as 16th (right below jake burger and ryan mcmahon and above devers) Also, it's saying that we shouldn't make decisions based on Yoan. If we get a 3B as best return and that kid is known for his glove?, roll with it and shift him to 2b. if it's an OF, then roll with Yo Yo at 3B and go with our AAAA guys at 2b. I'm not guaranteeing yo yo a spot because he hasn't earned it. He's had his shot and now its time for him to move where best for the team.

Call me crazy, but I like an angle like this. I even think we should be pursuing 3B. At this point Yoan Moncada is our worst contract and don't really care about his future with the team. He's getting paid a boatload and if we can get someone like a Vargas you can just slide Yo Yo to 2B. For all the hype and talk around his solid glove it doesn't great out THAT well. I'd be exploring all options whether that be a Jung or a Vargas, etc. Nothing would be off the table for me. Also, i know we s%*# on the FO a lot for mismanagement. I'd call a trade of Hendriks, even in the position we are, a win. Closers and relievers are so up and down. David Robertson was out of the league and now he's playing a pivotal role on a world series contender. Sell, sell, sell if you can get yourself a controllable guy back.

every time a big contract is signed we all say the same thing. so that aside, this, in my opinion, will be a regrettable contract. If they win a World Series then it's a win. The people in Philly remember their 2008 championship ... the years in between rebuilding they do not. The Sox don't need to be the Cubs, BoSox, Phillies, Padres of ALL IN! and spend spend spend to eventually tear down, wait, and do it again. But they also can't be this version of a franchise. Alas it's much more likely grandal, hendriks, and giolito are traded than the sox actually try.

admittedly i haven't watched brantley a ton in LF, but i think his WAR in the field was more or less breakeven most years. eloy was more around -1WAR. Not saying he's great or terrible, just if you're going to hide someone LF is generally the place to do so. if we can get a professional LEFT HANDED bat on a shorter, reasonable contract who gets on base? I'm for it.

I dont mind Brantley at all. Actually all things considered in terms of pay, length of contract, cost of acquisition, etc. I almost prefer him. Benny is younger and seems like he's going to cash in on his best year going into FA. Paying him $14mm a year seems a bit over the top. Brantley brings a steady bat to the lineup and really outside a two year stretch was pretty consistent in playing time/staying healthy. Last year obviously not ... This will be an unpopular comparison, but i kind of liken it to Melky. We're not going to get a ton of homers or anything above average defense, but you will get yourself 30 doubles, a .300BA, .360OBP and a solid #2 hitter. Not sure what the markets were predicting ... I'd say i'm happy with like a 1yr, 12mm contract, $2mm buyout and an option for a second year at like $9-10mm. Seems fair off shoulder issues. Hell give me that + Conforto for RF and tack on like $6mm to the above terms and I'd be ecstatic (relatively speaking as a Sox fan with a low bar). Call it an offseason right there. Your OF is Brantley/Robert/Conforto wtih Colas given as much time as needed. Eloy DH. In house 2b. And you roll.

too many teams linked to murphy. someone needs to tell hahn to lay off trying to find solutions via FA for 2b and C. The salvy thing interests me a bit ... a very little bit. to almost none. it better be a creative trade if we did that .... i am tired of spending at dumb positions.

Time to pass the torch to Leury. All great franchises have to pass the torch.

Makes sense. The timing of both the Clevinger and Abreu signings were very close. I'd guess that all these offers were on the table (including Houston with Verlander) and the dominoes finally fell. Aka, this is our best and final Jose and he went with Houston. Which then led to the Sox announcing Clev, the Verlander meetings with NYM and LAD, etc. Houston came forward with a very good deal for Jose. He's not worth 3/59mm at this age. I love the guy and it's not my money so I can be salty as a Sox fan, but he's just not worth that price right now. The difference is the Astros are a well run orginization that can absorb $10-15mm of wasted money, the Sox are not.

I'd also add, 3 years and $58.5mm is rich. Jose and his agent did well. I think my assigned value to him would've been closer to 2 yrs and $30-34mm and if we're getting crazy, add on a buyout of like $3-5mm with an option for year 3 at like $10-12mm. So at the very max we're talking either 2 years and call it $36mm guaranteed w/ buyout or like 3 years and $45mm. Think he got a very good deal and based on the Sox own self-imposed ban on winning and spending, it probably made most sense to assign that money elsewhere to have the best shot at winning these next few years. (because of their own mismanagement previously)

Also, there's little doubt in my mind if Abreu didn't outplay his last contract (aka he had a poor season or two) that the Sox would've brought him back. He was too successful for a poor franchise. If he could've been had on a 1 year, $8-10mm contract and was a shell of his peak performance you'd see him splitting time at DH/1B. Simply put, good franchises retain their talent when they perform Bad franchises look to offload those guys for cheaper, controllable talent. It's the same for real every day work too. Good companies retain their best employees. Bad companies let them go to competitors that value their time and talent more. The sox are a bottom feeder franchise and will always be a bottom feeder franchise until JR is gone.

If that's all it took for you to turn on Jose then you may need to look yourself in the mirror. the man played through injuries, came to compete every day. he asked to have one day off... one ... maybe you dont remember when he'd get pegged and TLR was talking about how he needed a rest day and Abreu refused? but he took off one day ... the last day as a Sox fan to sit out and you think he's not a leader?

me thinks the timing of this = more or less abreu having this offer in hand w/ astros for a bit and waiting on the sox to make their final decision. not saying it was right or wrong decision to let abreu walk ... i see both sides. But ... clearly this team is going to be worse without him.

welp. But just further cements that Sox have no real legitimate shot to win it all. at best they'll have a phillies like shot ... this is a race between the top dogs again. mired in mediocrity ... mediocrity during our "championship window" is just moved from 80-84 wins to 84-90 wins. Still no legitimate shot. 2nd place organization.

14.3 WAR over 6 seasons = approximately 2.5 WAR per season = approximately $16-18mm value per season. Now, some of those are skewed because of great seasons. So, let's discount a bit for age and recent results. Add a bit back since you're getting an under market DURATION deal (aka the pitcher is taking the risk) plus add a bit more back for being 2 years removed from TJS and settle on 1.5 WAR this season? Does that seem fair? What does 1.5 WAR equal in terms of a salary. About $12mm.

Define drastically. Most outlets were projecting around $10mm deal. $12mm is around $10mm.

I wouldn't be shocked if we do replace Johnny with Johnny. I have a feeling we just replaced Giolito with Clevinger. I'd give Cueto 2/18mm and an option/buyout for a 3rd year. He's not going to be last year, but he still should be able to give you 4ERA ball give or take.

Put me in the category of this is a good value and upside/downside. You have to remember we paid Cueto $4mm after the season started and VV $5mm. Obviously the Cueto deal went swimmingly and was maybe a top steal of the offseason. All things considered $8mm is not a bad deal at all. Two questions that come to my mind ... 1) with the deal being just one year, what does that mean in terms of a Giolito trade? 2) are we still in talks for other SP's The winning side of me wants to role with Giolito because i think it gives us the best chance to win a WS. But if we don't have a realistic chance of resigning him then we should be exploring options. Better to get something than nothing.

The White Sox are 100% in position to take back a bad contract. The White Sox are 100% never going to take back a bad contract without sending one of their own back. Both are true statements. In a wishful mind (not realistic) this would be the last year to push the pedal down. It completely makes sense to press here knowing the contracts that are coming off at the end of the year. However, absent doing the right thing, the only other path is actually systematically dismantling the team to where you can convince the fan base they still care/competitive. Aka, the Brewers trading Hader and Renfroe. Aka, us trading Hendriks and Giolito. If you're not pressing, you better be trading your assets with a year left on their contract to get some level of talent back. You absolutely cannot just sit around and be caught flat footed and get nothing in return for your assets if you're not going to pay your assets when the time is due. Unfortunately, this path sucks because the FO didn't properly stagger, draft, and develop a deep enough talent base like the Rays or Cardinals do to withstand trading away MLB talent/shuffle contracts. Currently the Brewers are playing this game, and have some OF talent and a deep enough bullpen that they're hoping to be successful in their first turn over. The Sox won't be so successful in my opinion. In order to properly do this game (the way Jerry wants to) you need to kind of do what Cohen is doing (not to that extreme) and spend to buy time to develop a deep enough bench in the minors where you can supplement and trade from the MLB roster where a guy isn't re-signable. At current we have ... no real SP depth, minimal to unproven OF depth, minimal position player depth. Andrew Vaughn and possibly Colson Montgomery are examples of (hopefully) successful examples. Outside of that? Just terrible, terrible FO job again.

Or getting a young pitcher to replace Giolito. They're chalk full of those. Not sure how desperate they are to get rid of money v. return on their pitchers. Avi Garcia is also out there on a bad contract. Both are not ideal, just thinking there's a match to be made between the parties if they want to look that direction.

Here's a name sure to freak out the board. Jorge Soler. He's got ties to the Royals and Grifol, the talks of how he had his best years under the Royals/hitting instruction, the fact that the marlins match up quite well in terms of trade partners, and the fact we know hahn wants to go after power. Now, he doesn't grade well in the OF, but it's not something I'd rule out in terms of throwing him in the mix at LF, RF, DH rotation. You have to consider his salary, and the ability to use that salary as a sweetener while maybe looking at a controllable arm that can slot in for Giolito. I could definitely see a trade where we go after a Trevor Rogers, Jorge Soler and then turn around and trade Giolito to another team for a piece. Just a thought, and something I wouldn't be surprised has been kicked around. Have a feeling these are the type of moves you'll see this offseason rather than getting in the mix on a guy like Belly.

based on the names i've seen floating around twitter I am not surprised, but still disappointed this is the path we're considering. I have many doubts we'll find lightning in a bottle on guys that others are passing on. i like hendriks a ton, but at this point it seems like the only viable option to bring back real, meaningful talent since JR and team will not be putting in a real effort to supplement the talent we already have.

Would love the internet to put together one of those clips montages of 1) Hahn saying we will spend the money, the championship window phrase 2) sox losing 3) all the backers like Garfein, etc. who said to remain calm, remained optimistic (they're paid to, so i give them a bit of a break) 4) a bunch of negative clips from the TLR season 5) us spending nothing this offseason/goodbye video to Abreu who signs w Astros/competitor. 6) ending in more losing moments over the next two years 7) finishing scene of hahn saying "we had a seat at the table" In terms of a rebuild and going through a tear down? I give the white sox brass a D+

dude, quit having a boner over everything i say. you nitpick. kind of getting tired of you.