he gone.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jan 24, 2018 -> 08:11 AM) Look at it this way: last year, we traded Adam Eaton (a young, cost-controlled OF) for three prospects. We did this beause we didn't have enough good players to compete, so we needed to take the chance to turn one good player into MORE THAN ONE good player. What good would it do, a year later, to trade 3-4 prospects for Christian Yelich (a different young, cost-controlled OF) when the MLB team is WORSE than before? Yelich is younger and better than Eaton, but not substantially. Does keeping Eaton throught the rebuild instead of trading him make sense? If the answer is no, then trading for Yelich doesn't really make sense either. There will be a time where trading for guys is the right move, but we have to have some of these prospects turn into MLB guys first, because until that happens, we still need the prospects. True and not true. I get where you are coming from. However at the same time, at that point we didn't have Eloy, Robert, our whole draft class and our position in this years draft. Not to mention Rutherford, Cease, etc. etc. I definitely agree you don't give up a top 4 guy (Eloy, Hansen, Robert, kopech) but if you can get it done for the right pieces? I'd pull the trigger. We're not as far away from winning as we may think and getting a Yelich doesn't preclude us from going out and spending big on a FA next year which is the added bonus to me.

QUOTE (BurlyMan56 @ Jan 23, 2018 -> 12:37 AM) Scahill= Swarzyk A - Swarzak B - He definitely does not C - Scahill will sit in the minors for the majority of the year and be depth for the White Sox. He'll probably be up 1-2 months all year and give you 15-20 innings total. D - I went to high school with him and played with him - he's not capable of being a guy who is flipped for any type of prospect 5 months from now. Youre talking about a guy who walked 4 per 9 and struck out 4 per 9.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 21, 2018 -> 04:29 PM) Why would we be dumping our starting SS at we’ll below his max value? To play who there, Leury Garcia? You want to pay top value to Andrus for this year? Yolmer? You have seen Anderson’s offensive and defensive numbers the last two months, yes? You can't cherry pick a few months here and there. If you did that you could cherry pick Fulmer's 4 good starts. I just go by what I've seen over time and to me? That's a very average SS. Maybe he puts it together, but I think its more likely at this point that by 2020-2022 when we are hopefully really pushing for a WS that Anderson will either be a bench piece, not on the team, or our #9 hitter and the weakest link on the team. Just my opinion. Nothing makes me more or less qualified than you and your opinion - just don't think Anderson is a "special" player.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jan 21, 2018 -> 07:40 AM) I’m confused here. Are you suggesting the main two pieces would be Cease & Rutherford? Cause if so, the Sox would have made that trade yesterday. The problem is it’s going to cost a lot more than two fringe top 100 types. Rumor is they asked for Acuna from the Braves. And while that was just the initial ask in the discussions, I fully believe the Marlins wouldn’t accept anything less than Robert or Hansen as a headliner from us. That’s a no go for me. Yes. Cease + Rutherford + another big piece that isn't our top 4. Literally anybody from Anderson to Burger to Giolito to Lopez. I don't think the Marlins are going to get the return they are seeking. We were extremely lucky with what Hahn pulled off. I may be wrong, but I highly doubt they get Acuna or Hansen types. I think they settle for 3-4 pieces. 1 MLB ready player (Lopez, Anderson) . 2 that are very strong prospects (Cease and Rutheford type) and then a throw in (Adolfo type). That's my personal guess.

QUOTE (Wanne @ Jan 19, 2018 -> 05:29 PM) agree with the last two statements. First....a little early to be dumping top prospects...and I really want no part of trading our pitching assets...yet. One thing about this view... "yet" is the best of both worlds. I don't think you are afforded that luxury. The only way you are afforded that luxury is that you absolutely are in a place where you don't have to make any deal. So you do have the luxury of letting this play out. However, I think we can agree that not all these pitchers or prospects will pan out. if they do we'll be the Astros. So if you trade now Cease and Rutherford may be worthless in a year and you ended up trading _______ for Yelich. Flip side? Cease and Rutherford might be David Robertson and well... Yelich in 3 years. In that case you lose. I'm okay waiting a half year and pulling the trigger. But at that point your package may look completely different.

I don't know the rules in the MLB. It may be like the NFL where they only allow alternate jerseys every once and a while. But if not? Personally I love the Sunday home jerseys the most. Would I love them full time? No. But I think the Sox have a unique opportunity and past that they should take advantage of. We are the SMALL majority of fans in Chicago. We can't deny that most everybody are Cub fans, I'd imagine with how much they've won that the generation under 10 years old is leaning even heavier. I do think if you were to rotate between the 83 jerseys, our current jerseys, mix in the 59's, mix in the 80's, mix in a couple of new designs? It may sound stupid or kitschy however becoming the Oregon of the MLB actually could be a real solid marketing angle. Baseball to the average fan has become drawn out, boring, etc. (not me, I'm posting on a board in January, just outsider perspective). I think you take that opportunity and market outside the box. For instance, those grey jerseys in the first post? Those are fire. I know this view would upset the old school fan.. but hey.. you want to survive you have to adapt. The plus side of all this? The more variations you have the more merch you sell the cooler you look the more casual fans you will gather.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jan 19, 2018 -> 03:11 PM) Yeah sounds more like dumpster diving type moves. Yah I think he's alluding to smaller moves now that I read it again. But at the same time Hahn rarely plays his cards so outright saying the team will look different. It made me curious. As far as Yelich? I am 1,000% not 100, 1000 percent on board if it doesn't take a Hansen, eloy, Robert, kopech. if its cease, Rutherford + ________ I am in. The last one in my order of preference Burger Anderson Lopez Giolito Other

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Jan 19, 2018 -> 02:52 PM) Didn't he say the opposite? Forget where I read and apologize if I misread. It was a few days ago via one of the sox beat guys. Clicked the link on twitter and read the article. don't remember which though... I remember him reading that he said there are more moves to be made. Didn't elude to anything big like a Yelich, made it sound more like small deals from what I remember. But I remember thinking it was odd saying that the team wouldn't be as it's currently constructed in a few weeks. Seemed like an odd statement. Again could have misread.. That article aside, I just have a feeling that Yelich is coming to the Southside. It just fits too well into what he keeps repeating. About not making a deal unless it has a strong long term effect.

Mark my words the Sox will make a relatively nice move in the next 2-3 weeks. One we weren't necessarily expecting. Could it be Yelich? I personally hope so. But the Sox are going to add. Hahn said in an interview a few days ago that the team as constructed currently won't be the team reporting to camp in a few weeks. He's got something cooking still. Sign me up for Yelich.

My personal guess is that it will land on FM radio. Just a hunch.

Also one more point to make before I jump on the train. I am just throwing this out there as a hypothetical because both seem like they can be acquired for less than fair market value and would have 5 service years attached. I realize the bullpen is a mess. That we still have Shields and MiGo in the rotation. That Eloy isn't ready. Moncada probably isn't ready. etc. I just look at the Twins. Not bad if you can pick up a few guys, build a winning culture this year. I think that goes a way in selling a FA next year too.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 17, 2018 -> 04:12 PM) What did you all think Rondon was for?! hahah. yes... but for real. if you have the following offensive talents .... Abreu, JD Martinez, Yelich, (Garcia at some level of last year), (Moncada and Eloy playing to a solid chunk of their potential).. then I'm not sure you need more than a Defensive SS and some kind of something at 3B (Nunez/Davidson/Frazier??) etc.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 17, 2018 -> 03:22 PM) I don’t doubt that the Marlins could do better, but I think you guys are exaggerating a bit how far off that offer may be. Not sure how many teams even have the ability, yet alone the stomach, to better that offer by much. That's the thing. I don't necessarily condone getting aggressive a year early, however a)look at the return they've gotten for both Stanton and Ozuna (realize Stanton had a massive contract). They've showed their hand and are almost pot committed at this point. I think they'd want a MLB ready player (Lopez, Anderson, Gio) and then a few prospects. I am okay with this personally. I know the comparison is the Eaton deal since they are so similar in age, how they play, etc. However I think it goes without saying that Hahn got a hell of a deal there.

Edit to my above.. I wouldn't include Kopech, Hansen, Robert, Eloy. But you can take any other 3. I'd give up 3 of Rutherford, Anderson, Cease, Burger, Collins, Dunning, Lopez, Giolito, Burdi. (In some combo, but not all. Wouldn't give up Lopez, Gio and Cease)

QUOTE (Tony @ Jan 17, 2018 -> 02:54 PM) Yeah, that's not happening for Yelich. I'm just repeating what I heard on a podcast with Our Chuck Garfien. I think it's low too as well. But the Marlins have really painted themselves into a corner. Look at the return they got on Ozuna. Very meh. Besides the point though.. we are not GM's and we don't know the trade value. The premise is if you can acquire both at that general price.. $20mm and 3 prospects would you do it? I am on board. My thought process is such: Although you may be able to find a diamond in the rough aka JD Martinez with the Tigers through Tilson, Gilaspie, Davidson, Cordell, Yolmer, Nicky D etc. etc. through letting those guys play every day in the MLB I think we can safely assume that the best those guys will be MLB depth at best on a championship caliber team. what you do know is that Yelich and JD are already there. I don't mind taking playing time away from those guys if you bring in two guys like JD and Yelich. Also it's not an overbearing contract at $20mm and 5 years. Finally one could make the point that Eloy, Kopech and Hansen are being held back for Super 2 reasons.. not saying they are completely ready. However if we were the All-In Sox of the past I think you might have seen Kopech already up. My point is I'd take the for sure players in the door over waiting a year and MAYBE executing.

Reports are saying JD offer from the BoSox is 5years and $100mm. I realize this won't go over well on the board, but if that's all it took? I'd do it in a heartbeat. Trade a few prospects (Burger, Cease, Anderson) for Yelich and let's roll. I'd rather do this now than wait for maybe Machado and end up wth Donaldson or something. If can get two guys like Martinez and Yelich for like $32mm combined in the door? And a sure thing? And it costs just a few prospects? I'd roll those dice over Machado all day. Yelich Moncada JD Martinez Abreu Garcia Nicky D at DH Nunez 1-2 year deal. Castillo Yolmer Within no time you have Eloy up, move rotate JD at OF/1B/DH. Your OF is now set with Yelich and Eloy. You have power. And you still have a bunch of arms that are just on the verge of competing consistently in the MLB. (Kopech, Hansen, Gio, Lopez) You have to plug a few holes moving forward... SS, 3B.. but that's it. It's also not mortgaging the future as one could consider $20mm for JD "affordable" and Yelich at under $14mm "affordable". I realize being paitent is key.. I get that.. I also have watched enough from the FO of the Sox where I don't see them hitting a homerun as necessary when push comes to shove. If this is an opportunity I'd take it.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jan 15, 2018 -> 09:50 AM) I just don't see anyone on the market today whose skillset can't be bought every year. So why not buy a 2-win player like Nunez when you actually need those two wins? Otherwise you're just hoping he doesn't decline much between now and the competitive years, and holding the bag for the salary either way. I'm definitely on board with looking for free agent opportunities in unique markets like these ones, but I think we have to be looking for upside. No matter who you sign, the only production you can be reasonably sure of is what comes in the next 12 months -- anything else is a substantial risk, and should be considered an additional "cost" of acquisition. That cost can be worth it to pay, but we need to feel like we have a good chance of getting more production than we're paying for. I just don't see any upside with Nunez/Melky/Jay types. It's possible you could get that with Martinez, but it sounds like the Red Sox are already offering him a pretty reasonable deal, so his price floor isn't really that low. I'm all about over rebound contracts to guys like Tillman and Buccholz, but I would think that the Gonzalez signing means those guys are still holding out for multi-year deals, because I can't believe Hahn didn't look into those guys first. Good points.. I didn't think of the aspect of that these type of players are available every year. I still like Nunez, but can see with his injury history (hamstrings a lot if I remember) that if you zap his speed a bit, and combine his age, he can go from a really really nice UTIL and 3B fill in to just dead weight quickly. If you could get him on a 1 year deal I'd still consider though. I think he has flip ability.

As I think all us baseball fans who frequent a message board in January know, this has been an extremely slow offseason with almost no activity out there. This is the kind of offseason I hope next year is like when we are step closer to competing, because at this point one can probably pick up some really nice pieces that can contribute. I know it's unlikely the Sox will add for two reasons. A) they want to know what they have and let their own guys like a Tilson or Cordell play it out. See what Yolmer can do again in 2018, Leury, etc. Plus we are full on our 40 man. b) why add payroll to a team that is very likely not to make the playoffs? However below are some names I've compiled that I'd be interested in kicking the tires on for either the reason to flip them. Or, possibly on a 2-3 year deal to where they might be able to help us make a run in 2019 or 2020. Eduardo Nunez - I think you can nab a guy like this on a 2-3 year deal. He can play 3B, spell Anderson, Moncada, play in the OF. Basically all over the place. He also can steal bases and hit for average. You say Leury, I say Eduardo. Davidson is not the 3B of the future. Yolmer is fine and well as a utility guy. I'd pickup Nunez and slot him in at 3B. You can rotate him as necessary to get looks for the guys you want. He's a nice insurance plan if a Machado or other big name doesn't sign with us at 3B. He is also insurance in the OF and at SS in case of a trade or injury. If we do end up signing a Machado he slots in a super UTIL. I see very little downside. Jonathan Lucroy - This really isn't on my list NOW. However, and this is just my opinion, I'd rather have signed him than Castillo. Who knows how that will play out. I just think Lucroy has a better chance of being something special again. Jon Jay - If nothing else he's a good filler. I want to see Tilson and Cordell along with the others too. Jon Jay isn't exciting. If nothing else a small one year deal and flip him for some low end prospect to a contender in June/July. Melky - Poor mans Jon Jay. Not sure he really serves a role anymore. Hes probably stealing AB's from Tilson, Cordell and Nicky. So not a huge advocate here. But in the right role and at the right cost? Who knows. You could probably pick him up for $2-3mm Tillman - Can never have enough fliers at pitcher. I don't care about Shields. He's as much dead weight as was Johnny Danks. Bucholz - in the same light.. why not? Lastly, I would CONSIDER, not advocate for looking into Alex Cobb, Lynn or JD Martinez. I get it's pissing away money this year. But if you can get them at a HIGHLY discounted price? You saw it with the Astros and Cubs among other teams over the past few years.. it doesn't take a whole bunch to go from a young team to a WC contender. In a perfect world Eloy and Kopech come up this year and progress to real contributors ala Judge or Severino (just used those comps cause both were on the same team). If Moncada takes steps forward? You upgraded Catcher. You have Abreu still. Throw in a healthy Rodon and Hansen, etc, etc. Giolito, Lopez... It's not out of the question that we take a big step forward in 2019. So if you can get a JD for 5 years... or if the Lynn and Cobb market is not what it should be? You throw away a bit of money this year.. but you never know. Just for s***s and giggles.. lets say JD.. Going into 2019. DH - JD RF - Eloy CF - Leury/Tilson/Cordell/Engel/FA Signing LF - Avi 1B - Abreu 2B - Moncada SS - Anderson 3B - Nunez C - Castillo UTIL - Leury/Yolmer/Nicky Pitching - Rodon, Kopech, Giolito, Hansen, Lopez. So although you'd piss away a year of JD? Again, not advocating for it, just kind of pointing out that we are an Eloy, Kopech, and Hansen + 1 year from really being a player away from competing seriously. So although this may seem like a dumb time to be involved in FA, with how its progressing, it may actually be a great time. I'll hang up and listen.

Well, that didn't take long after my response. I forgot about Gonzalez to be honest. I'd throw in the same category as a Hector Santiago. I'll take it. I still wouldn't mind Bucholz as a piece in the pen if he's willing. That's where you hit your real HR on a flip deal. Imagine if he turned into a nice bullpen arm somehow and revives his career. you can hit the lottery.

Give me whoever has the best flipping upside. If I had to rank that? I think Bucholz is the type of guy that Coop could work with. And then once Rodon is back, you flip him to the bullpen. We've seen renaissance's before like this where all of a sudden maybe he's worth a bunch to the Sox. I actually had my eye on Henry Owens before he signed elsewhere. Great arm, no control. I really wanted to stockpile guys like that in this offseason and so far we haven't. Rubby De La Rosa, Owens, Bucholz. Why the hell not. After that I'd go with the Santiago/Tillman type of guy. Jesse Chavez does me no good. He fills a hole like Shields. He'll give you innings, but to me, you can get those innings and wins elsewhere. And I actually don't mind Chavez, hes been on my fantasy teams for spot starts for the past few years, just don't want him in a ChiSox uni.

Could it just be that Hahn & Co. are floating this out there to show their interest to Manny & Co.? To say, look we wanted you all along and were willing to trade all of these assets? Again, in the end money wins. I don't see a situation where Manny falls in love with 17,000 fans at The Rate and signs an extension in season. Thought about starting a new topic on this - but if Hahn is really willing to send prospects to get Machado to help increase the chances of signing him next year wouldn't it make more sense to try a similar tactic and use those same prospects to land Yelich? I'd think a team with Yelich next year and beyond + Robert + Jimenez + Moncada + Abreu, etc. would be more enticing towards Machado than playing one year here on a 79 win team. I'd send over almost the same package as we got from the Nats - say you send over Lopez, Rutherford and Cease + _______ (probably light) for Yelich. Then next year you sign Machado. You have your rotation pieces still there... Rodon, Kopech, Giolito, Hansen, etc. Your lineup is probably Yelich, Moncada, Machado, Abreu, Jimenez, Garcia, Castillo, Anderson.

I mean, it's not happening for the Sox this offseason, nor do I want them to. The biggest upside to a team trading for him now is getting ONE year out of him and using that opportunity to impress him so much that he either signs an extension or would give some kind of preference in free agency to them... I'd guess there's a 98% chance he tests the market, so I say let's just reproach next year. The interesting comment as noted in the first post is that he wants to play SS. If that's the case I'd like to see some experimenting either spring training or late in the season when we are out of it to test Anderson in CF or 3B. Still a very small chance we get him, but in the case we do I'd like to see how Anderson plays the diamond elsewhere.

I actually played baseball with him from little league on, was my quarterback in high school too. Went to Willowbrook out in Villa Park. I've seen some talks about comparing Swarzak on Twitter... not sure I'll agree there. Has a nice fastball, not sure this is a "Coop can fix him" candidate. I'd see him more as a candidate to fill some innings but doubt a career revival in the making. I'm thinking split season between AAA/ChiSox is probably a safe bet.

My thoughts are that Rodon won’t be ready at the outset of the season and fulmer will likely fall to a bullpen role. Sprinkle in a few injuries and kopech not up til later in the year? I think signing a better version of holland makes a whole bunch of sense.

QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Nov 15, 2017 -> 02:36 PM) The White Sox are in the catching market for their up and coming pitching staff. Does Jonathan Lucroy make sense here? https://twitter.com/MLBBruceLevine/status/930868813423407104 I LOVE the idea of Lucroy. I really, really don't see the downside if he's willing to come here. Personally, I'd even give him 3 years with a 4th year mutual option. Take the annual price down a bit and give yourself a solid veteran game caller, bat, and clubhouse guy. Think the upside is too great to not look into. Think about 2 years ago - ppl were talking $100mm salary for him. Sign me up. He can either be a nice flip candidate or he can man 100 games behind the plate and 20 more at DH.