he gone.

I know there are a lot of names that can be thrown out for a #5 spot. Just bring this up since I saw it on MLB Traderumors this morning. They also mentioned us and the Padres as nice matches. I for one would like to see us bring in someone with more possible upside to flip at the deadline, but I guess this wouldn't be a bad consolation prize. He'd come as a cheap alternative, probably no more than 1 year, $3mm + incentives. He also has always been known for his bulldog mentality. Figure he'd be a good clubhouse guy - you'd be getting yourself a $3mm pitching coach as much as an innings eater. Again, don't think he's the high upside of a Chatwood or whoever else that maybe you hit on, but I think he fits the mold. What say you Sox Talk?

I'm squarely in the don't trade Avi boat. I'm not sure what his value is, nor do I think most of us know what his value is. In cases like that I feel like the downside outweighs the upside. Who knows if last year was for real, but we're in the situation to find out. If it was a fluke? You lose out on some mid-level prospects. But if he repeats and turns in another year like last year? I mean he's still young and remember the excitement when he came in for Peavy? Lil Miggy talk? I just think it makes sense to roll the dice with him again this year. And this comes from a very anti-Avi guy a few years back.

QUOTE (BrianAnderson @ Nov 1, 2017 -> 10:11 AM) I was really disappointed with the service within stadium club my last few visits. In years when the Sox were doing well the place was pretty well staffed, cleaned, etc. The last few times I was there I sat at my table with no service, had to go up to the bar and grab my own menu, you'd essentially have to order a beer when it the first was being brought to you as it would take 15 minutes for the next check up, etc. I said screw it and stopped going. No reason to pay an entrance fee to pay essentially stadium prices with bad service. Lately I've been going to local Bridgeport restaurants beforehand.. Kimski has real unique and good food and decent cocktails/beer list. Antique Taco is also a decent stop. Rather frequent those joints and pay $5 a beer and $10 for a really good meal than spend it at Stadium Club. Also forgot to say I was clearing my own table.. in years past, although it was more crowded when a table opened up you'd sit down and within a minute a bus boy would clear and clean the table and a server would come up to you. The last few times I sat with dirty plates in front of me for 5 minutes+ without anybody caring ... just kind of a gross dining experience. That being said, they still keep the resources and staff size for Scout Seats, so that's a positive.

QUOTE (ewokpelts @ Oct 31, 2017 -> 07:42 PM) stadium club is an additional $1000 a year. and parking is only a savings of 2-3 dollars. and sunday games have no discount. I was really disappointed with the service within stadium club my last few visits. In years when the Sox were doing well the place was pretty well staffed, cleaned, etc. The last few times I was there I sat at my table with no service, had to go up to the bar and grab my own menu, you'd essentially have to order a beer when it the first was being brought to you as it would take 15 minutes for the next check up, etc. I said screw it and stopped going. No reason to pay an entrance fee to pay essentially stadium prices with bad service. Lately I've been going to local Bridgeport restaurants beforehand.. Kimski has real unique and good food and decent cocktails/beer list. Antique Taco is also a decent stop. Rather frequent those joints and pay $5 a beer and $10 for a really good meal than spend it at Stadium Club.

The math just isn't there in my mind. Parking may be discounted, but I just take the red line. Also stadium club has really fallen off the past few years in my opinion. Plus we all know if the Sox are playing well in 2019 they'll roll out a plan in like July or August saying if you buy 7 or 10 games that you get playoff access for at least the ALDS and ALCS. That's what I'll probably end up doing ....

QUOTE (ewokpelts @ Oct 25, 2017 -> 03:35 PM) too bad most September games, even lower level seats, are $6 on stubhub. I second this - I took a bath on seats.. last time I bought a package it was the all weekend games one ... by September I was getting $6 a ticket and then StubHub taking 25% or whatever their cut was... Between corporate hookups free and not being attached to a schedule it's just much nicer to get tickets at 6pm for a game for $6-10 and sitting wherever I want. I've had the diamond box seats before and paid the $60-70 seat charge before, and was pissed when ppl do what I do now, but for $6 I can sit In those seats still... little known secret? Just go on stubhub app in the parking lot while you're walking in... find 2 or 3 of the best listings still available and sit there. Nobody is buying those seats therefore nobody will bother you all game. Works like a charm.

QUOTE (champagne030 @ Oct 24, 2017 -> 06:59 AM) The 20 game packages get you 2-1-1 for ALDS-ALCS-WS. The 40’s get you 3-2-2. I'll have to work the math out, but I feel like this is my conundrum each year. I want to be guaranteed playoff games if and when we get there, but at the same time I am just throwing money away buying season tix packages... Through business connections and secondary markets its quite easy to get to 10 games a year for probably less than $100 between free tickets and cheap secondary games.. I feel like if I add all those savings up I can pay for the $250 tickets when it comes time for playoffs in 2019 or 2020.

Speaking from total ignorance on how these Tv deals are structured, I wouldn't mind the Sox somehow being ahead of the curve and pulling off some deal that makes sense not just for today, but the future landscape.. Meaning - is it possible to work a deal with the Netflix, Hulu, Facebook's of the world along with a TV deal?? I mean, I know absolutely nothing when it comes to this ... just seems that with all the cord cutting and drop in sports ratings that it would be refreshing to be the team that leads some kind of digital charge. Think about how the Cubs grew their fan base through WGN back in the day... they grew it through cable and everybody across the US being able to watch them.. essentially they became America's team this way for people without a market. Is there a way to team up w "new cable" aka digital world?

I'm so glad we got rid of Sale! This game proves to me that he'd never be the type of pitcher we could count on in the playoffs. He always had antics to where it upset the clubhouse. It was really time for him to go and I think that the team is better without him. We got lucky in that deal ridding ourselves of a headcase like him! (Ignores the facts that he is one of the MAIN reasons the BoSox are in the playoffs, that he was one of the most consistent pitchers in the games over the past 5 years, that he actually had his velocity yesterday, that he's only let up 6 homeruns to lefties all season, that he will finish Top 3 in Cy Young voting, that he is a competitor through and through. He lives and dies by his performances more than any of us -- that's a great thing when he won for us, but then all of a sudden he loses and that's what his problem is??? Come on now guys... anybody who is posting on a White Sox message board after a 66 win season in October is way too involved in the White Sox highs and lows.. Sale is the type of pitcher we should all love.. someone who takes a GAME way too seriously to the point where its not healthy. Give me 25 Chris Sales on my team.... This thread is so "Sports call in radio" it hurts. Now this is not all rah rah Sale talk ... I think if I was a BoSox fan I'd want to see him turn more into a pitcher than a thrower, I think I'd want to see the BoSox limit his innings for future playoff appearances, and finally I think it's all moot. I could see this from a mile away - Sale gets amped, misses his spots, and gets hit sometimes. Then he gets in his head more and more .. I think if I was Farrell I'd pitch him game 2. Yes the media would blow you up for starting Pomeranz game 1, however Sale is the type of guy who gets too hyped. Giving him the ball game 1 was a mistake. I could be wrong ... but I fully expect if he pitches again in game 4 or 5 that he'll be dominant. 7 innings of 1 run ball and like 10k's. Just my guess though.

my 2 cents: If you have a choice between Arenado, Harper, Machado and Stanton and you tell me the Sox WILL sign one? I put Stanton at the back of that list. I still like Arenado and Machado a whole lot more than the others. However at the same time if you tell me this is JUST a contract dump? I'd entertain Stanton. I do think he'll have a big trade market however if it just a contract dump. Giants, Phillies, Yankees, Cubs, RedSox, Dodgers can all absorb that price tag a lot easier than us.. People may think I'm crazy, but I can see the Yankees going after Stanton AND Harper... Imagine an OF of Judge, Stanton and Harper ...... infield of Torres, Sanchez, etc. But to go back to the original question - yes I'd acquire Stanton. He'll be 38 at the end of the deal ... Pujols is 37. It's not inconceivable for Stanton to play 6-7 really good years within that contract and a few more at replacement level.

QUOTE (bmags @ Sep 29, 2017 -> 03:27 PM) Jimenez was one of my favorite prospects so I'm glad it worked out the way it did. But, I'm not writing off these guys yet as failed. Glasnow definitely looks like he may be a BP piece, however. I wouldn't write off Glasnow. Look at his AAA numbers this year - absolutely filthy. He's a Coop tweak away from being a very special pitcher. If there was a way to acquire a guy like that this offseason I would explore - that being said we really don't have what the Bucs are looking for. Garcia wouldn't net that and they don't need a player like him. Just saying I think he'll be a very talented MLB pitcher

Let's be honest, it's Rodon. Rabbit said that we'd have "closure" by the end of the week on Rodon a few days ago in another thread... Well here comes closure .... we probably won't see him until 2019.

I think we can read between the lines here and guess Rodon ... not good. Not sure who else it could or would be.

He's a student of the game and a hard worker. I seem him following almost a Pujols type of path.. that may be lofty in expectations. Pujols: 27 327/429/568 32HR 103RBI 28 357/462/653 37HR 116RBI 29 327/443/658 47HR 135RBI 30 312/414/596 42HR 118RBI 31 299/366/541 37HR 99RBI 32 285/343/516 30HR 105RBI 33 258/330/437 17HR 64RBI 34 272/324/466 28HR 105RBI Abreu: 27 317/383/581 36HR 107RBI 28 290/347/502 30HR 101RBI 29 293/353/468 25HR 100RBI 30 308/359/560 33HR 102RBI Looking at those stats? Even a top 10 greatest of all time bat in Albert fell off a bit after age 30. I think if he wants to take a friendly deal then we take it. If not, maybe even let him play out the next two years and then extend him. I want him back even at diminished returns at least at DH, but I don't think there's a rush. Even if he's batting .260 with 20HR I think there is good value there with how he approaches the game.

I'll settle this once and for all with one simple question to all the people who are upset that we'll most likely pick 4th instead of 2nd or 3rd (I think we all conceded the top pick to SF a while back - though this tigers drop off has been out of the blue and sudden) Name the top 5 prospects in the draft by name and position without looking it up... I know the names Turang and Singer off the top of my head.. Exactly. In April it was TANK FOR BEER!!! Well guess what he's supposedly a mid to late 1st round pick now. Trout was what? 23rd? Pick 1 and 2 in 2014 was Brady Aiken and Tyler Kolek. Unless there is a Harper, Bryant, etc. at the top there are very few sure guys. From what I understand there are MANY solid players in this draft with no real standout. I wouldn't be surprised if the top pick 3 years from now was from someone who picked 10-20.. Let's look at the top prospects in all of baseball... Torres - signed Robles - signed Vlad Jr - signed Eloy - signed Acuna - signed Rodgers - 1st (3rd) Tucker - 1st (5th) Senzel - 1st (2nd) Kopech - 1st 33rd) Buehler 24 Honeywell 72 Brinson 29 My point? You have to trust our scouts ... This isn't the NBA where one player like Lebron wins you a championship. This isn't like NFL and NBA where a likely consensus top 3 guy is a guarantee.. the 1st round and top picks are littered with injuries and burn outs... if there is something to get bent out of shape about it is that our signing slots are less with each pick down...

While although a problem in the Current setting, I don’t think it will be as big of a concern when it matters. Now if you are one of the minority that think if all goes well the Sox can compete next year (ala the Twins) then, yes, we probably have a problem and should be searching hard for a solution this offseason. However I think next year is just another step forward in the learning curve so this is less an epidemic and more of just a problem we need to solve in the next 2 free agent classes and drafts. I think we are an Astros/Cubs Lite in terms of rebuild. The Astros went from 51 wins (yikes!) to 70 wins to 86 wins to 84 wins before finally breaking out this year. I would think we’d follow a similar path with less swings. So with that being said let’s look at 2019… Players that will most likely be around in 2 years: Abreu, Anderson, Moncada, Garcia (likely). I think we can all agree Abreu is not a problem. I think we can also agree that we’ll take whatever Moncada gives us which will probably be high strikeouts and high walks. Anderson won’t improve much either, but you hope he starts putting it all together defensively and more so how he’s played this second half of the season. At the end of the day if your SS is playing defense with range, a strong arm, stealing 25-30 bases, hitting 15-20 HR and batting .270? I’m fine with him not walking and comfortable with his strikeouts. He just slots in the 7-9 spots in the order. Garcia? He’s a wildcard. So that leaves Catcher, 3B, RF, CF, DH. Catcher – Collins – He’s show he’s a OBP guy. Can take walks, and most likely will be up by 2019 I’d assume DH – I’ll slot Burger in here for now. I’m not sure he’d be on the 2019 team, but probably 2020 for sure. Who knows if he progresses in the minors and makes the majors, but again, he’s a guy who takes walks 3B – I’ll be completely optimistic and hope for a FA here. Machado or Arenado a year later. If so? Golden RF – Eloy – if he is what we think he is? My lord, no problem there. CF – Robert? Probably a year too early.. Rutherford…probably a few years too early and not sold on him.. so let’s just say a defensively minded CF Overall I don’t see many problems. Hahn and co. have done a great job of making sure the guys who are younger have a better approach. I really don’t see 2019 as a problem. Now 2018? Yes… this team will continue to have the same issues if they run out the Davidson’s, Delmonico’s of the world. I just don’t see those guys being around in 2019.

Moncada is playing some good baseball lately since switching bat weights. He's always had that eye, but it's nice to see him making adjustments at the MLB level. The pitchers and fielders positiioning will undoubtedly readjust to him as they gather more info on him So it will be interesting to see if he again can readjust. I still maintain that he won’t be that “next level” player that we are all expecting and hoping for however I do think he’ll have a few all-star seasons and be an above replacement player based on his speed, power and tools. Side note to make on this. I wish we would just extend Abreu in the next 12 months. I think he likes this team and is comfortable with the direction they are headed. After he knocks in a few more RBI’s he’ll be one of FOUR players to ever start their career with 20+ HR and 100+ RBI’s in his first 4 seasons. I believe the others are Ted Williams, Dimaggio, and Pujols. To think some of the lineups he’s done this on?? I just think it’s foolish to not keep him around. I think he’s the type of guy who’s going to be productive until 34-35. He puts in the work, is a student of the game. A great mentor for the young guys. Can slide into a DH role as necessary, etc. He’s arb eligible, but will be a FA earliest in 2020. If half way through 2018 he’s again doing the same at age 31? I say you buy out his 2019 and 2020 arb years and extend him 2 more additional years. That’s 4 year extension at say? $15-17mm a year? I’m not smart enough on arb numbers. Not sure what he’ll get each year for 3 years. But if you go over market value there, and then under market value for the last two years? I think its smart.

Let's see what JD Martinez gets this offseason. The Tigers didn't get a whole ton for him at the deadline and look what he's done on AZ. He's mashing the ball. The guy has produced every single year since coming to DET and his trade market was poor. Doubt Avi would get much in a trade so my incentive to trade him is low. No in terms of an extension? I'd rather play out the years with him and see where his market value stands. We have money to spend. If he plays his way into a contract so be it. I've gone from an Avi hater to essentially "Gordon Beckham" mode on him. My stance on Beckham after his few down years was always - he's not the problem, he's not the solution but you can run him out there and have him fill a role on your team while you plug other holes. If Avi can play 0-2 WAR for the next 3-5 years I take it happily. I don't expect him to crash and burn and I don't expect him to suddenly be a superstar.

QUOTE (cjgalloway @ Sep 15, 2017 -> 08:05 AM) I can't stop but get confused why people this Avi is a power hitter.. Why do they? Because he is tall and bulky? The dude has 17 homers.. May not even crack 20 this year (he's 26) and people still think he could hit 30? He is what he is. A singles hitter. Let's stop assuming and hoping he's all of a sudden going to become some power hitter you need to backout the outfield for There have been a few posts in this thread I really like. That's level headed and I like it. Listen, he's still young'ish & I like this Avi more than the other version but my best case scenario is that he plugs a hole on this team at LF/RF/DH for the next 4-5 years as a league average, or slightly above league average player. It leaves one less hole to have to fill via FA or prospects. Another way to look at it is that if he's doing well, you don't have to rush a Robert or Rutherford in a couple years. They can learn down on the farm and come up and be ready. I'd expect something like a .260avg with 15-20 dingers moving forward. There's still value there though with his legs and his hot streaks (he's always had hot streaks in him)

QUOTE (South Side Fireworks Man @ Sep 7, 2017 -> 02:02 PM) And Anderson should have to improve his defense as well as his offense. Yet he seems to be the anointed starting SS. Why not let him compete for a job like everyone else? Leury is a much better SS and it's his natural position. Defense matters. This. I get in trouble sometimes on this board for being too negative - but I don't think Anderson has proved enough to me offensively or defensively or on the base paths to be considered THE solution at SS. That's not to say he cant play a role or be the SS for 3-5 years. I just wouldn't stop drafting infielders early or be against signing a FA in the future

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Sep 6, 2017 -> 01:22 PM) Sometimes I am truly astounded with peoples inability to detect sarcasm. All he was doing was pointing out that we wish and pray and hope for guys who in his opinion don't deserve it which is Saladino, Sanchez along with Engel. Edit: Realize this was answered and is no knock on you Jose . Sarcasm is one of those things that is harder to pick up in writing I guess because you can't hear tone of voice. I just see it a lot here . Thanks. I'm not trying to come off as a dick or attack anybody on the board. I'm here reading daily, posting semi-weekly. I just can't stand the topics sometimes. And I get it's because of the state of the Sox. We want ANYTHING to be excited for. I just think there are levels to that. Yolmer was a legit discussion when he was named Carlos and was 23. Saladino was a legit discussion after he did well for a full year. Engel is not a legit discussion cause he's never done anything. Delmonico isn't legit cause its been a few weeks. I'd much rather have conversations about free agent classes, the approach of Renteria with the bullpen or bunting, how Giolito is mixing pitches better, or Moncada's approach at the plate and the positives and negatives that may bring down the line. Instead I feel like this board sometimes reverts back to the lowest common denominator of "Engel made a nice catch" which then equals "can he be our everyday CF?" s*** I get it. It's painful. I just want more baseball analytical discussion than sometimes what happens on this board. If not give me discussion on Giolito, Lopez, etc. rather than Delmonico and Davidson

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Sep 6, 2017 -> 10:34 AM) This is the biggest contradiction ever. Saladino, Sanchez, and Alvarez have never hit more than 9 home runs in a season, yet they apparently have the potential to hit 25. Engel has never hit more than 7 home runs in a season, yet he's the one out of the four that's apparently not going to figure it out and become a sudden home run hitter, despite being the youngest. This was either a remarkably poorly informed post or a troll attempt. To clarify - yes. That was all sarcasm - I thought I laid it on thick so I didn't use the green font. I love defense as much as anybody and I'd love a Saladino or Engel on my team in a playoff run but they just never will be good enough offensively to make up for it. Also to clarify - someone said they hate when people say they hate the board sometimes. I really don't care. I'm allowed to roll my eyes when people suggest that Engel, who has 28 CAREER homeruns (OVER 5 SEASONS) in the minors is going to suddenly hit 25 a year in the majors. I like this board when I can discuss prospects and the future in a civilized, realistic manner. But I feel like a lot of times the board is just a bunch of topics about _________ hot streak and can they be a piece in our 2019 run to the playoffs? Kevan Smith, Engel, Delmonico, Yolmer, Saladino, etc. etc. None of them will be contributing members yet there have been discussions dedicated to each of these players. (And yes, I know I can be over-reactive the other way. I dismiss all these guys. I have softened on Delmonico as a contributing member in the future -- but only as a bench player at best IMO

QUOTE (Lillian @ Sep 5, 2017 -> 06:56 PM) Leury has done very well, but he does not have Engel's upside and he is not really a good defensive centerfielder. Regarding Engel's arm. My understanding is that his arm is highly regarded. Here is what Future Sox had to say: "Engel has true plus-plus speed, a strong arm and elite athleticism. He's gotten body comps to Mike Trout, and he's got enough strength that some scouts see latent power potential he's yet to tap into. Defensively, he's a true center fielder who tracks well, has the speed to cover a lot of ground and a very good arm, so that's already a foundation to work from." I just think that if he could hit .250 with an OBP of .330 plus and hit 20 - 25 homers, he would be a terrific player, the way he plays centerfield. I just think if Tyler Saladino could hit .270 with 25HR he would be a good fit. Same with Yolmer. You know who else impresses me in the minors? Eddy Alvarez.. if he could hit .250 with 25hrs he could be our next SS for 5-7 years. I can't stand this board sometimes. Adam Engel makes a nice catch and all of a sudden we go goo goo ga ga over him. He's never hit more than 7 hr's in a season. He's not figuring it out now at 25 years old. He should be happy he's in the Sox organization when they suck cause he wouldn't sniff the majors if he was on 25 other MLB orginizations. He should be happy that he can tell his grandkids he played in the MLB and that he accrued MLB time and is on the 40 man roster and gets a nice bump in AAA for a while. Other than that? Sorry. His biggest role EVER on a contending team should be in September to be a late inning defensive guy for like 1 inning total. Or running the bases. But in two years when we are hopefully good? He's 27. And guess what? You can find his speed elsewhere readily and you can find defense almost anywhere too. Engel can be throw into the pile with almost everybody on this team ... thanks for being a warm body and playing mlb baseball for a year and a half.

Didn't read the whole thread ... but to answer the question shortly? Any doubters left? Yes ... me. Also think there's no reason to trade him. We aren't going to the playoffs next year so might as well send him out there for another year to see if he can replicate this season again. Plus the value for Avi isn't very high. JD Martinez didn't fetch a whole ton and he is a damn star compared to Avi. IMO you won't get much back for him, so let him do this another year and then evaluate where he plays in 2019 (DH, RF, LF, traded, released)

QUOTE (BrianAnderson @ Sep 1, 2017 -> 08:49 AM) I think as an organization, if you have a chance to acquire the best power bat in MLB you do it. Now what is the cost? I'd have to look at his contract and opt outs, but $30mm for him? I think I'd do it. He's young enough - though I feel like a bit injury prone. But as someone said you'd have him during his prime over the next 3-5 years right when the Sox are going for it. Imagine THAT bat at Comiskey... protecting Abreu who is getting on base non stop... All else equal ... if you said I have $300mm to spend on ONE FA or trade? I'd go: Machado Arenado Stanton However the caveat there is that Machado and Arenado are not guarantees ... the hope is that $300mm gets the job done ... but you'll have Philly, SF, NYY, etc. etc. all in play for these guys. I personally take Stanton. Now if they eat $50mm? I'd throw in almost anybody outside our top, top guys. Think about this lineup .... and also think about how quickly this rebuild is almost complete with this scenario... let's just say 2019 Opening Day.. forgive me for the lineup construction ... may be off CF - Rutherford 1B - Abreu DH - Stanton 2B - Moancada LF - Avi Garcia RF - Robert 3B - Burger C - Collins SS - Anderson I mean... have fun getting thru that lineup as a pitcher. Yes that lineup is unorthodox -- at the same time this scenario won't ever happen so who cares... I like putting the best hitters up in the order more. Abreu protected by Stanton who is protected by Moncada (who should be improved)? That's scary. Oh s***. I forgot our best hitting prospect in there! Eloy .... holy crap. Just add him in I guess over Avi? Or ... something... Maybe shift Robert to CF and then Eloy to RF and Rutherford to LF? See this is what I'm talking about... just in my head I'm thinking Christ.. how scary is that.... Eloy, Abreu, Stanton, Moncada - back to back to back to back....