he gone.

Beltran to the Stros. What happened to EE going to Astros Carpe Diem? I heard that Trump is looking into buying the Sox after his presidency too.

Was reported by Heyman today that it's down to FIVE teams primarily - of which the Dodgers are not included. He goes on to name like 4 more teams. So it's not new news - however this is exactly why nobody can trust someone with 6 posts. I'd ask that poster if he's willing to bet on his own rumor or source. I'd think no.

I wonder what our backup plan is now ..

In terms of players signing with the Sox if he was the owner? I think it'd have very little do with him or any other owner. It's quite easy. Think about it -- if you have two offers on the table... One is with Obama's Sox and is 3 years and 50mm One is with (insert worst person you can think of) as owner for 3 years and $60mm Does not matter who the owner is. It's about money. Now in terms of being able to negotiate a new place for the next stadium? Then you're talking. He could probably pull many strings to have us in a desirable part of the city or suburbs. Or at the very least have tax money put into the existing surrounding area.

I selfishly want the Astros to go through w. the trade. Ever since I moved to Houston a few years ago (back in Chi now) I became an Astros fan since I watched their games a lot. The Astros do make sense, and I do think that Bregman could be available. They signed Gurriel who is a 3b who was displaced by Bregman who was displaced by Correa. There were talks about Gurriel playing LF or 1B next year, but then they signed Reddick. And still have Aoki, and Spring in the OF ... so then that shifted him to probably 1B... which is where they have Marwin Gonzalez and AJ Reed and Gattis and McCann and have been tied to Napoli.... Basically what I'm saying is that I think they view it as they have excess bats and can sign FA bats but can't acquire the pitching. I think it's a good fit. What I'd want In return? Give me: Bregman, AJ Reed as a start. Kyle Tucker. David Paulino I think that's a decent haul. AJ Reed should be your DH/1B for a while and you're buying low. You're getting a probable stud in Tucker. And Bregman should be penciled into your lineup for years to come. I'm not a big fan, but wouldn't mind taking a flier on Marisnick or Moran as former top prospects and give them a shot.

QUOTE (ewokpelts @ Nov 16, 2016 -> 12:33 PM) Did any ticket holder NOT get the renewal letter/package? I havent gotten mine yet. I received nothing. Had a partial season - the weekend games + cubs. Regardless if they do though I think its pretty pointless to send or call me. My mind is made up. Call me in 2018 or 2019.

QUOTE (WBWSF @ Nov 16, 2016 -> 07:43 AM) Judging by what I've been reading everywhere it looks like Sale is going to be moved for prospects. Unproven prospects. Would anybody be surprised to see that most of those prospects turn out to be a bust? Remember the infamous White Flag trade when the key to the trade was Mike Caruso? KW said that Caruso was a grinder type of player who White Sox fans would come to love. Caruso was a grinder but he had one major flaw, he couldn't play shortstop. Every ball hit to him was an adventure. After 2 seasons he was gone and he was never seen again in MLB. Trading Sale and Quintana could turn out to be the biggest PR disaster since the White Flag Trade. I'm really worried that we're in some real dark years on the South Side of Chicago. Hope I'm wrong, but I don't think I am. What would your offseason plans be this year? Who would you sign? Also what would be your 2-4 year plan? I've been down this mental path before and I always come back to selling our assets.

QUOTE (palehose1 @ Nov 12, 2016 -> 10:04 AM) when you have seats go from a little over $50 per game per ticket to $54 that's significant. Our invoice went up like $1200. I don't mind paying that when they put out a good product but these last few years have been awful. If I cant make a game and have to sell n Stubhub I usually take a loss. I'm sure if someone did a study of the Cubs or other big market teams the resale value % is much higher, the Sox have to be near the bottom the league in resale value. Of course we could always cancel our plan but we wont, just too loyal to the team and its part of my summers for many years. It just doesn't seem like great timing to raise product prices 7% when you are having quality issues. That was my problem and the reason I generally don't think I'll buy season tix from the Sox any longer. I've had some sort of package every year since I graduated college. So I'm going on 8 years of some sort of plan. Whether that be 7, 14, 20+ games and I take a loss almost every year for games I cant go to, no resale value + I think its kind of a pain to have that many tix. I'd be exhausted on a Wednesday after work and rather sit on my couch. But If I had tix I'd have to trek down to Sox park and by the 7 inning I wanted to be gone so I can sleep in time for work the next day. I probably stayed to the 6 inning on average. My main problems in order are this: - it's almost impossible to get people to come to the games with me. Most of the time I have to offer my tix for free to friends for them to consider. - the resale value is almost zero. I had diamond box 5 rows up from the sox dugout for a year and those actually held better resale than anywhere. My only guess was that people were buying as special occasion seats. I've also had outfield tix. Price was like $25 per seat... very affordable. Only problem is I can get those on StubHub with no commitment to the Sox for like $10 most game days. - who cares where my assigned seat is? Not to be that guy, and I Hated it when ppl did this when I had diamond box tix, but I had OF seats this year and never sat in my assigned seat. Most of the time I was 10-15 rows up off the dugout. All you have to do is go on stubhub app like 20 mins before the game and look for the best seats that haven't sold yet. Then you know nobody is coming to sit in those seats... so you never have to deal with the embarrassment of being asked to move. Essentially I can pay $7 for any game and have the best seats. All That being said Palehouse if you ever want to unload a few of your games behind the batters circle I'm always game.

Okay, I'd like to see this boards rankings of how they rank our players in terms of perceived value in the market. AND THEN, Separately which of those you would trade if you are trying to keep anything alive in terms of winning/future. Mine would be: Sale Eaton Q Abreu Frazier Robertson Nate Jones Miguel Gonzalez Melky Lawrie And then I'd trade during the OFFSEASON: Sale, Miguel Gonzalez, Nate Jones, Robertson, Eaton. I'd keep.. Frazier, Abreu, Melky, Lawrie, Q. I don't think Lawrie has as much perceived value now as he would as a mid season addition -- one who comes with an expiring contract, can play multiple positions, etc. I also think someone like a Frazier would have more value during the season. Yes he hit 40HR, but he also batted like .220. Longoria is supposedly available on the market too. Turner, etc. I just think if you wait on him and he ends up hitting like .250 and on pace for 40hr again you can get a TON at the deadline. Also not the worst to keep him. Relatively young. Depending on what you get back for a Sale & the others you can be almost rebuilt in 2-3 years. Frazier could have 5-6 good years left in him... Don't forget the black hole 3B has been for the Sox since Crede... Melky? Not sure why I kept him. Just think he has the same value regardless when you trade him and I like him, so want to see him play ball a bit more. Abreu? Not much of a market IMO. Let the Trumbo and EE, Joey Bats, etc. all play out. I think someone will be more desperate later on. And again, almost like Frazier he could have real value at DH in like 2-3 years when this team might be rocking and rolling... In terms of Q. I'd want to keep him. If you can trade the other guys and have a nice minor leagues you could have Q, Rodon, Fulmer (if he turns a corner) + someone you acquired as a solid 4 man rotation. I think if done properly you can keep a couple of the guys and be considered a dangerous team as soon as 2019. of course that's assuming the FO that's never done anything right gets all the trades right. And I think history shows you never win trades where you give a superstar like Sale,.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Nov 8, 2016 -> 11:20 AM) Chapman and Jansen are awesome but paying $90 million + for any reliever that throws 70 innings a year is insane. Create relievers by using failed starters. Trade them when they get expensive. Rinse and repeat. If it was that easy the Rays and/or every team would have a factory pumping these type of guys out... I get your point though.

QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Nov 8, 2016 -> 09:49 AM) they could unload Sale, Melky, Frazier, Robertson and have a payroll of like $80MM. You think Jerry might like that plan instead? Yes. Tactically speaking he knows the Sox are dead in the water in Chicago. If you are going to go into hiding this is the time to do so. Jerry is a businessman. We'd all like to say we'd be different in his shoes, but it's not Monopoly money. If he spends $60mm extra and we don't show up he wont make as much of a profit. Yes his franchise is worth a ton more than when he bought it etc. etc. But it still money t the end of the day. If he cared about wining and the fans we'd have $3 beers and a stacked team.

QUOTE (BrianAnderson @ Nov 8, 2016 -> 09:37 AM) Yes. Which isn't all that crazy if you are making an actual push with the core you have (by non Jerry standards). It's a big number but all of it could be off your roster within 2-3 years. So it's not a Tigers like push where you'd be screwed long term.. I picked certain guys off that list that would have shorter contracts and that have value in the trade market (albeit older guys ... catch 22). If you want to win you have to spend. Not HAVE to, but basically do. Dodgers, Yankees, Red Sox, Tigers, Cubs, Giants, Angels, Rangers, Cards, Nationals, Blue Jays, Orioles, Mets... those are your top 13 payrolls at the end of 2016. Every one of those teams was in it with two weeks left in September except the Angels... and all of them had a payrool of $156mm or above... $160mm payroll is what it kind of takes... And last thing.. cause I should actually do some work today... that is BEST case scenario almost... if Jerry says spend $60mm. It aint happening. And that still doesn't give me all that much confidence.. which is why I say sell IMO

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 8, 2016 -> 09:26 AM) So, regarding the staying in budget part of that, without counting the "Some bullpen arm" I add that up as being somewhere over $160 million with the total payroll. Yes. Which isn't all that crazy if you are making an actual push with the core you have (by non Jerry standards). It's a big number but all of it could be off your roster within 2-3 years. So it's not a Tigers like push where you'd be screwed long term.. I picked certain guys off that list that would have shorter contracts and that have value in the trade market (albeit older guys ... catch 22). If you want to win you have to spend. Not HAVE to, but basically do. Dodgers, Yankees, Red Sox, Tigers, Cubs, Giants, Angels, Rangers, Cards, Nationals, Blue Jays, Orioles, Mets... those are your top 13 payrolls at the end of 2016. Every one of those teams was in it with two weeks left in September except the Angels... and all of them had a payrool of $156mm or above... $160mm payroll is what it kind of takes...

QUOTE (bmags @ Nov 8, 2016 -> 09:17 AM) Brian - that was a good post but it made me want to vomit. Oh, I agree. Your lineup would be: Eaton, Melky, Abreu, Desmond, Frazier, Reddick, Anderson, Lawrie, Castro To me that doesn't scream anything much different than what we've seen over the past years. The simplest way I can break it down is this.. what percentage chance do you think we have making the playoffs in any of the next 2-3 years with Sale/Q/Eaton/Abreu core? I think maybe 10-20% each year .... and because of that I think you blow it up. Just thought I'd play devils advocate if Jerry was open to adding $50-60mm to his payroll (not going to happen)

I go back and forth so much. From wanting to make a push and do it right with these pitchers and core to blowing it all up. I think if you are going to spend though you have to do it on guys like MLBTraderumors just mentioned. If we are going to make a push, unfortunately it will probably have to be a half assed one and with guys you can sign for 1-2 years and if it doesn't work out you can flip them. It's kind of what they did by acquiring Frazier and Lawrie and those guys before. It was an all-in, 3 year window where basically we knew we could blow it up this year and trade off pieces. If you are going to keep on that path someone like a Beltran. The people I like on that list at those numbers are: Ian Desmond - 4years 60mm (yes qualifying offer). I still think at $15mm a year he's a good get. Can play probably 5 positions and has value in trade market if you want to flip him. Also very tough to give up that draft pick, so it depends on if we are going for it this year. Rich Hill - 3 years and $50mm. You can never have enough pitching and I don't care that he's a lefty. IF you are going for it and you have a rotation of Sale, Q, Hill, Rodon, Gonzalez with Shields as your long relief guy and for any injuries + Fulmer if he turns a corner? That's a team that is probably the most stacked rotation in the league. Yes he's older. But if you can get a guy like that w/ only a 3 year contract tied to him? I think I'd do it. Josh Reddick - 3years 36mm. I think it's a buy low. He cant really hit LHP which is not good. But I think he adds a lot to this team being able to play all OF positions and allowing Melky to switch to DH some days. Kendrys Morales 2yr 26mm - If you don't sign antoher bat at least he's a guy you can count on for 25 hrs about a .275 BA with good OBP. I'd take him over Trumbo. And especially when you talk money too. Jason Castro - 2yr 15mm - simple, cheap, upgrade with no contract duration And then some bullpen arm and a guy like Beltran if you don't get one of those bats above. I think adding any of those guys in some combination still allow us to stay within in our budget yet improve and all have value where you can trade them in July or offseason if things don't work out. Admittedly Desmond would be the biggest gamble with the pick tied to him. If truly going for it. And Jerry gives the sign off? I'd go Desmond Reddick and Castro and Hill. You'd have the best rotation in the league. Desmond in CF, Reddick in LF, Melky at DH. You improved your OF defense, your DH spot, and your catcher/catcher defense. All that being said? Blow it up.

http://www.espn.com/mlb/draft/history/_/team/hou Actually here it is. Can bring up any team's first round picks. What I'll say is this ... you have to get lucky. If Fulmer does something for us? Having Sale, Rodon and Fulmer is actually a very strong 6-10 year draft history. If you have a 50% hit ratio of all-star type picks your team is going to be unstoppable.

I'd like to see the 1st round picks of the Cardinals or Cubs over the past decade. And I know those are strong examples. If not them, maybe throw in an Orioles or Tigers. Kind of middling teams. I wonder how much better or worse their first round picks are..

All I can say is that you have 2 heads of companies. Jerry and the Sox and this CEO of Guaranteed Rate and it really goes to prove you really don't have to be that smart to run a company. The fact that 90% of the public can pick up on why this isn't a good look, or how bad of a joke this is should go to prove something to whoever signed off on this decision. Keep the red in the logo, take the arrow out, put a house in. You can keep your down arrow in areas of the stadium by the food, or signage as you walk up the escalators but the main signs, the ones that get shown? those should not have a down arrow. In the end the CEO of Guaranteed RAte, although wrong, isn't really his fault. Him and his marketing people want exposure. They're getting it. He doesn't care about baseball. The real problem is that you had a group of Sox FO ppl who didn't have the foresight to see this problem and took a terrible sponsorhip for 13 year for a few million dollars extra........... dumb is what it is

Maybe they'll hire Brian Anderson as the MiLB head of hitting instruction! I think I just made up that title, but I'm sure we could find him a job.

Two notes from my end: a) what does his job entail now? Does he have power to say who we draft? Or is it just this fake title where in reality he does not much? Does he have contact with the players? This is a serious question. b) Well this is more of a statement. The reason we as a Sox fan base are upset with this hire isn't because we understand the effect Getz will have on the team or about anything to do with the hire itself... It has to do with this is such a status quo move by the FO and its sickening. We lose, lose, lose. And we build this culture of losing. so as small as it is, we go out for the AFL and make Rowand a manager. We go out and hire Getz. We go out after a losing season and hire our bench coach, who then retains everybody including Steverson. Those guys individually may be fine coaches and good in their roles, but it's the same ol same ol. There's no accountability by the FO, so how will there by any at the players levels? Just like at work probably in a lot fo your offices. If you have a boss or bosses that give you an inch you push it. No matter how gifted a worker you are, in the end if you aren't challenged from above you slip. I was really hoping this offseason it would be blown up. At least from a FO standpoint. I have nothing against Renteria and I think too much is made of managers, however I hate that he was already on this losing team. With how this offseason has started I can't wait to sign Mark Trumbo and Dexter Fowler and then try to tell the fan base we're going for it again. Then watch us get 2 lead off singles only to strike out twice and pop up in the infield to end the inning with zero runs.... This team is broken. And it's not Getz fault or Renteria, but at the end of the day it's just another status quo move for the Sox FO and another reason we will suck again next year.

QUOTE (Black_Jack29 @ Sep 29, 2016 -> 07:27 AM) Seriously? Uh, how about the money he's spent? In just the past two years, I'm counting about $150M in financial commitments to Melky, Robertson, Frazier, Shields, Samardzija, LaRoche, etc. Not to mention the long-term deals that he gave to Abreu, Eaton, Sale, Quintana, etc. That may not be George Steinbrenner money and one can question the intelligence of a couple of those moves (Shields, in particular). But it's pretty significant spending by somebody who doesn't have the Steinbrenner family's financial resources. If Reinsdorf doesn't care about winning, he wouldn't be spending like this. He could've saved a lot of money by fielding a team full of the Sox's crappy AA and AAA players. Look, I realize that you're pissed about the way that the organization is being run and I don't disagree with you about that point. But the idea that winning isn't a high priority for Reinsdorf is just dumb. We may think in this day and era that the pendulum is swinging back around to middle market teams and you don't have to spend to win, but that notion is wrong quite frankly. At least for this year. I am sure there are examples otherwise and I am cherry picking BUT: Of the top 14 payrolls -- only the Yankees and Angels are not in the serious playoff hunt - and one could say the Yankees were in that hunt up until about 10 days ago. The teams are: Dodgers, Yankees, BoSox, Tigers, Cubs, Giants, Angels, Rangers, Cardinals, Nationals, Blue Jays, Orioles, Mariners, Mets Flip that around, the only team in the bottom 16 that is in the playoff hunt or in the playoffs? Indians. You have to spend to win. It doesn't always mean that they are worth what you spend, however you need to keep spending. You can't let a Danks or Shields stop you because the problem is magnified. Also $140mm isn't a ton nowadays. It sounds like a lot. But in the baseball world, $140mm isn't what it used to be. $100mm payroll used to be something, now only the Marlins, Brewers and Rays operate under $100mm. Final thought? The difference between spending $140mm and $165mm may sound like a lot, but really isn't. Think about if we didn't go in with our plan this offseason and spend $10mm on COMPLETE JUNK (latos, rollins, etc.) Now take that $10mm + 25mm of extra funds..... $35mm this year could have landed you Cespedes (possibly) and Ian Desmond. Again I know this is cherry picking, but a lot of us wanted those guys. Imagine this team with Desmond as SS until Anderson came up. Or super subbing around LF, CF, SS with Saladino subbing around 3B, SS, 2B. Now you've created flexibility. You've got Frazier at DH sometimes. Melky at DH sometimes. You've got people getting rest more. Your lineup would be: Eaton Melky Cespedes Abreu Desmond Frazier Anderson Lawrie Catcher You pair that with our pitching staff? Add a bullpen arm for 3-4mm and kept Duke? Hard to argue that team wouldn't be rolling into the playoffs by now. You have improved OF defense, you have improved infield defense. A ton more power, flexibility, etc. All done with an extra $25mm payroll.......... hard to argue against the power of money

QUOTE (CanOfCorn @ Sep 28, 2016 -> 01:40 PM) I don't know about that first statement. Honest question, and not to get off topic, what do you think Joe Maddon would have done different. I am not in total agreement, but some agreement that he could or would have squeezed a few more wins out of this team. I'd think Saladino would have had a lot more playing time on this team all over the field. I'd think that we'd have way less Avi Garcia anywhere. And that there'd be more shifting of Lawrie and Frazier around the diamond. Like for example Abreu at DH, Frazier at 1B, Saladino at 3B some nights. Or even Melky at DH, Saladino in the OF, etc. Other than that, I'm not sure than morale how much he would have improved the team. Maybe instead of our record now we are like the Royals at just above .500. Just my completely unjusitifed stab at a guess.

QUOTE (bruni @ Sep 28, 2016 -> 01:22 PM) Simple - I have been a part of a 4 ticket season ticket block since 1994. One guy is already out after this year and if I pull the plug, the whole thing goes away. If/when he gets this one year lame duck extension, I walk and the White Sox lose a 22 year season ticket block... And I know I won't be the only one saving the $$ after this latest insult to the fans. I was there last night...crickets...upper deck closed due to lack of interest... I can't say I've been as loyal, but since I've graduated college in 2009 I've had some sort of season ticket package through the Sox directly. Whether that is 10 games or 20 games, etc. I've always done it through the Sox. It's a terrible investment usually. Take for example when you can't even get $6 for a seat on Saturday on StubHub, but I always thought of it as a way to show my love for the team and support them. That being said, I have written them off. I haven't even gone to a game since Mid-July. This only furthers my stance. Whether they bring Robin back or not, just the fact that this got out to the media and are handling this in this way is terrible PR and a slap in the face to fans. This organization is complete dog shiiii. All I can say is I hope whichever team they trade Sale to is a likeable team, because I very well may jump of this teams bandwagon and onto another. True question: Has anybody tried writing to Hahn or Jerry? Or the Sox? Like old school letter style? I really wish I could put together like a 3 page letter on all that I can't stand about this team.

QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Aug 9, 2016 -> 10:59 AM) What's actually nauseating about this thread is that several people are being sanctimonious to others about the impact of not seeing one's child on one's baseball stats, when this thread was actually intended to be the next nail in the coffin about Jose Abreu being "figured out" or his career being "finished." Would the lot of you please get off of your damned high horse and see the forest for the trees, here? JFC, the explanations aren't even consistent. If he was missing his son, why just for the first four months of 2016 specifically was it a factor? Yes, I have no doubt it gets harder as more time passes. However....who the f*** is anyone to tell me that 2 seasons was fine but the 3rd is harder? What the actual f***, guys? Would you guys care to look at Royce Clayton's personal life and tell me what was going on with him that accounted for his abysmal first half in 2001? Maybe if we look hard enough under a rock, we can find personal reasons why Frank Thomas struggled specifically in 1998 with average and 1999 with power numbers. While we are at it, why not explain away a million other things about Adam Dunn, or anyone else over the years in terms of their personal circumstances at the time? In fact, why don't we have a sub-forum with 25 individual threads detailing the day-to-day personal struggles of each member of this team? ...let me bring this thread back into focus with what should have been said three pages ago 3 home runs in 4 games should put to bed this NONSENSE that Jose Abreu is "finished" as a major league hitter or that major league pitching has categorically "figured him out" ...REGARDLESS OF HIS PERSONAL CIRCUMSTANCES. THANK YOU!! It's beyond me people are using this argument. I feel like I'm listening to a Pardon My Take Podcast on Barstool. Also, not to get the last word. I'll continue to read the board and appreciate the level-headed posts. But I can't post in a Sox downturn --- a number of posters grasp at straws and throw out ridiculous takes on what this team needs to do. Maybe we should sign Tim Tebow ............. Also my hoping for 2 for 98 is not necessarily a bad thing - it would probably help us get a protected draft pick, hah And I actually am a strong, diehard Sox fan - a dumb one, but a diehard one. I've had season tickets every year since graduating college. I watch 130+ games a year and never mind any of that.... I understand the game. Go back and read my posts if you want - they generally are pretty thought through. So with all that see y'all next year. For those who post thoughtful, fact checked and based statements and use that information to develop and share insight -- THANK YOU and that is the reason I'll still read this board. The others? You're the reason I'll get up out of my seats and move so I don't have to hear about how Brett "Lorrie" and "Tom" Anderson make a great infield. Thanks for being a fan - but get it together.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Aug 8, 2016 -> 06:44 PM) So a guy goes three years without being able to see his son on a regular basis and all the sudden people know that it shouldn't impact his performance because he was able to get through it in 2014/2015 I don't know about any of you, but the longer I went without being able to see my kids the worse I would get. It is crazy that any of you think it shouldn't matter, because it does. jaeowijfweoaijfweojaoifjwaoejif ARE PEOPLE SERIOUS?!!? Flip it around so: So you he goes 3 years without seeing his son and YOU KNOW IT DOES AND IS THE REASON ITS IMPACTING HIS PERFORMANCE???? come on man. Yes people love their kids. That has nothing to do with baseball. My god. This is so soft. Do you really think there is any correspondence? So we're saying there is a 91mph slider coming in low and away in 2014. Because his son was 8 months old at the time he didn't miss him as much and during that split second he lays off that pitch? BUT WAIT! It's 2016. Now that slider is coming in on a 2-2 count, the same exact fricking slider, but he has a more in depth bond with his son, which causes more sadness, so he swings at that pitch??? GTFO This is the same type of argument that is made when they say "oh you can't move such and such from SS to CF - it'll hurt his development at the plate beceause he is focusing to much on the defensive shift" It's pathetic making excuses. These guys go up to a plate 3-4 times a game for a total of 3-4 minutes. They can leave any personal issues at the door. I'm about done with this board for the year. I can't take reading this anymore. Call me when spring training fluff pieces begin. Also for the sake of this argument I Hope Abreu goes 2 for his next 98 while his son is around. I'm out.