he gone.

I've sold mine, but feel free to direct message me for any Sat/Sun game for the rest of the year. I unfortunately bought partial season tix.

QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Jul 19, 2016 -> 03:37 PM) Are we living in a Twilight Zone episode? This same sentiment has been repeated year after year.....and we're in exactly the same position. So we'll be entering 2017 yet again having to fill offensive holes via trade and the scrap heap. It doesn't work out for us, and looking at our record since 2005 few ideas for roster construction have worked. You know the one idea we haven't tried? Selling players with high value! If Hahn fails at receiving high value, which many are afraid of, so be it. He'll be embarrassed, then fired and we'll start over. It's a risk I'd be willing to accept. Continuing on this course of mediocrity will not change our fortunes. And honestly, if the results of the tradeline thread is any indication, a large portion of the fanbase would support selling. Yeah I know....sample size, we're a passionate segment of the fanbase, but assuming the overall result holds true, I don't think many would be upset with selling players like Quintana, Sale if we received good value. Even if it meant conceeding on the season and perhaps the next That might be true, however look at this roster. Just take a giant step back and lose all Sox ties to it. Then ask this question - can this team win a WS? For you to answer yes to that question, then you keep going and try to acquire pieces. If no, then you try retool. Here's the first thing - although we are all fans and love to dream, trading something like Sale during the season isn't happening. He just won't be the first player moved, they lose all leverage on all other players like this. You move someone like a Robertson when you have internal answers in Fulmer and Burdi and Jones in the pipeline. That's the smart move. But take that line away for a second - the FO sees this as such: Rodon should take a step forward next year (though honestly I was expecting that this year too). Shields should be very serviceable as 4/5. Now you have a solid staff lined up to throw 200IP from 1-5 (just pluggin in Miguel Gonzalez for kicks next year). With that pitching staff you shouldn't have to rely so much on your bullpen, but even at that, you should have Robertson, Jones, etc. next year. Some of the arms that were injured and then throw in Burdi. Plug maybe a decent FA. You move to the offense. One can make a case that around the infield diamond we are fine next year. We are fine in Lf/RF. We are not fine at DH. We are not fine at C. We are not fine at CF. Not saying its possible - but let's say somehow you acquire a Dexter Fowler, Ian Desmond (should have had him this year except were being giant morons), Colby Rasmus or Carlos Gomez (on the cheap, personally don't like him at all) At Catcher I'm not plugging in anybody - its a terrible position with not much talent out there except LuCroy. Somebody else has a better minors system than us to get him. At DH get me a Carlos Beltran for a year, or something. Or maybe you make some trades giving up decent trade chips, but ones you can afford to knowing if it fails, that you are rebuilding anyways, so who cares. Spencer Adams, or a decent trade chip to get someone like a Volgbach from the Cubs. What I'm saying is you spend money or trade and you can have a lineup that is decent, pitching that is good and defense that is above average. If that team can get you to the playoffs -- hten you have Sale and Q to lead you. At that point WS is possible. Which is why the FO will keep plugging until the tear down next year if they don't produce. Think of that lineup Fowler Eaton Abreu Beltran Melky Frazier Anderson Lawrie Avila Not too shabby. Beltran could probably be overpaid at a 1yr deal with a ok buyout. or 2 years at the most. Fowler/Desmond would probably take 4/60, but is tradable in a tear down. So you really aren't adding much risk.

We won't sell. Just not happening. FO is looking at this going: a) pitching - there are many pitching starved teams out there - that actually one of our stronger points. We are 5th in the AL in ERA, near the tops I believe for quality starts and we've done so with Latos and Danks and a bunch of others. Add in Shields we should be better. With all of them coming back next year the FO sees this as part of the "window of opportunity" b)fielding - we have the 3rd fewest errors. We have pretty solid infield in terms of range. Not the best - can have improvement out of Lawrie and Abreu, but nonetheless very decent infield. Our OF? Probably a CF away (AJAX defensively at least) from being a very good OF. Hahn is probably thinking about acquiring someone who fits the mold of a 1-3 year rental player where we give up an Adams, etc. to acquire and bolster our OF both offesnviely and defensively. c) batting --- AWFUL. We are near the bottom in almost every category. However, if I am our FO, they are probably thinking, "well Abreu will bounce back. And Frazier will start hitting doubles. And we can improve DH without Garcia" Point being - the FO is going to put one more offseason in this trying to acquire bats. A DH, Catcher, CF. My guess at least. And to be honest, I don't hate it, but don't half ass it either. If you are going to get a bat - go get one. Go get a Lucroy. Go get a solid ass DH. If they come back trying to tell me Avila is a good get or that Ajax is a solution as a starter? GTFO If it doesn't work then you trade everything.

That's also the part that makes this team infuriating. We have such a nice core to the team - we just need a few pieces to make this thing run like a finely tuned machine. But we wont. We plug with the The Lawries. The Shucks. The Morneaus. Just isn't going to win any WS this way.

QUOTE (Deadpool @ Jul 18, 2016 -> 02:35 PM) The team trading away the "superstar" rarely, if ever, wins these trades. I also agree with this. Look at the Miggy trade. I don't even know what it was, but no way the Marlins won that trade. Also someone responded this isn't what we think the Sox should do, it's what WE want them to do. If it's up to me? It's tear-down. It's been tear down for quite some time in my mind. If you are the Cubs or Yanks or someone with a hug payroll you could make this team work easily, but the sox won't spend, so tear down. Think if the Tigers FO had this exact roster in the offseason... you'd have Cespedes in your OF, you'd have maybe a Zobrist at 2b, and probably signed a nice pitcher ala Lackey. Eaton, Zobrist, Cespedes, Abreu, Melky, Frazier, Anderson, Avila, Shuck Sale, Q, Lackey, Rodon, Gonzalez. Amazing how much money can fix a situation. That team would roll for 2-4 years while you build your minors up.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 18, 2016 -> 01:52 PM) Sale isn't moving. Sox are going to push for one more year, after which Frazier, Lawrie, and Cabrera are off the books, but Sale and Quintana still have a couple more years and thus some value. We will stand pat or dumpster dive at the deadline, and our guys will have ample time to try to go on a run. We'll add a few short-term pieces in the offseason to bolster the roster for one more shot. If we fail in 2017, I expect Sale could move. Exactly!! I think sometimes people fail to realize the contract situations out there. They are going to add small, marginal pieces at the deadline and in the offseason. Maybe even bring in another controllable type OF player via giving up a prospect on our end. HOWEVER, it's not by surprise that we are on year two of a "three year plan" and many of the contracts end after next year. The Sox are going to sit pat right now and try their best to re-tool for a run next year as well. If things are off to a bad start? Then you'll see Melky, Lawrie, Robertson, Sale, Q, Frazier, etc. all traded. Maybe even players like Eaton. My only worry is the Sox do a half tear down and keep a few "key" players around. Now in regards to this Sale to Houston thing -- I'd totally love it. My second favorite team to watch is Houston, so wouldn't mind it from that perspective. Real hard to say what a fair value for Sale is. They have a plethora of talent over there, so you have to choose what you want or fits best. I'd personally want: Reed and Bregman for sure. You'd have 3b, ss, and 1b/DH all set day 1 of the trade. I'd also want a Tony Kemp or Mike Cameron's son in addition to one prospect arm. Think that's a pretty fair deal. From their end they just added Chris Sale and lost ZERO from their MLB roster. We would have an immediate CF/2B, DH/1B, 3B and a prospect arm.. However, if you are trading sale you gotta trade everybody else too. And you give up a ton of leverage as a white flag trade if you move sale as your first piece. You'd want to move your other pieces first --- Robertson is a good example. At least you sell him in a weak market and can sell your fan base that Fulmer can do his job and Burdi is on his way by next year. You cant sell your fan base that Sale can be replaced.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jul 14, 2016 -> 06:51 PM) Jose has been fairly disappointing since 2014, but he remains a very good hitter that is a tremendous bargain. He is paid like a league average player and is much better than that. I hope this isn't the new Abreu and he's just in a funk, but even if it, Abreu isn't the problem. Totally. So disappointing. I hate 30 home runs and 100 rbis. We should try and trade him -- if we can even get anything for him. That way we can slide Morneau into 1B and open and slot Garcia back into a full-time DH role.

Yah, not really sure on Shuck. I've always been a decent fan of his - but he definitely a 4of type of guy who can fill in long stretches decently -- preferably in LF or RF. Throwing him in CF is not ideal. I still like Billy Hamilton.. A guy I've been about for a while. He's going to hit .235, but when he's on base he can change a game in a second. Imagine a 9-1-2 of Hamilton, Anderson, Eaton on the bases before Abreu, Frazier, Melky. Any of those guys get on? Stolen bases. Really can change a pitchers approach. Plus his defensive in center along with eaton in RF would be amazing to watch. Cincy has probably soured on him over the past few years where he probably is attainable with the right package of players

so .... baseball starts again tomorrow right? next topic please

This feels like a trap series to me. Eyes on the players days-off or mini-vacays against one of the worst teams in the MLB. Sale, Q.. etc. On the surface seems like we should take 2 of 3 easily and maybe sweep. I feel we may get swept if we don't keep our focus. We are playing well lately no doubt but think of this.. since May 9? Sox are 21-31. Braves are 22-34. (Cubs 28-27 FWIW) Basically what I am saying is don't get too caught up in names on front of the jersey on any given day. Look at what the braves did last night with what's his face pithcing... Game 1: Sale vs. Wisler. Should be heavily in our favors, however don't slouch on Wisler. He'll probably pitch into the 7th today and only walk 2-3 guys. 2-4ER My guess: Sox 5, Braves 2 Game 2: Q vs. Teheran It's classic matchup for Q. He'll probably get 0-1 runs of support against Teheran who is very legit. Sox don't win Quintana's games. My guess: Braves 4, Sox 1 Game 3: Shields vs. someone (forget who, too lazy to look) Which Shields will we get? I'd call this a toss up game of the rubber match. I'd love to get 2 wins, but tonight is uber important. NEED the win.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 6, 2016 -> 09:30 PM) You say all these very dramatic/exciting things, but choose to lead with taking 2/3 from ATL instead of sweeping them...!!! Julio Teheran is starting against Quintana.. enough said? No chance Sox score more than 1 run that day. Sox lose 2-1. Sale game we win - though Wisler is no slouch. Shields on Sunday. Which one shows up? I'll take 2 of 3 in a heartbeat.

This likely means in August or September. Not a big deal. Not comparing him to Urias with the Dodgers but if/when he comes up it will be in the relievers role because of an innings cap. I am completely fine with this. Let him get a taste of the majors -- plus he should have enough plus stuff out of the bullpen that I'd actually prefer him over some of our guys. I really, really, really never understand this narrative that you "rush" someone. People act like baseball is all psychology. Gordon Beckham didn't suck after year one because he was mentally beat up. He sucked for a plethra of reasons involving his swing and not adjusting to pitchers. Fulmer throws a ball for a living. He's either going to have it or not. Coming up to the majors for a few months in the pen when he's on an innings limit isn't going to change a thing in his development.

I think we can realistically take some of these teams out of the hunt. IMO it comes down to the: Orioles, BoSox, Jays, Astros Second Tier: ChiSox, Tigers, Royals, Mariners Now obviously someone is going to win the east, but I'd think two of the other 3, barring injury probably have the leg up. BoSox, Astros, and the Jays to an extent all have the farm systems to make the trades to acquire the pieces they need to shore up their teams. Mariners have hit a dry spell due to pitching injuries. Royals injuries too. Here is an interesting fact.. tigers are 44-29 against any team not named the Indians -- which is exactly why the Sox have to play for the WC, there is no chance the Indians don't win the division. Especially with Brantley lurking... I'll stand by this prediction - I am saying Rangers win the West (best record too), Blue Jays the East, Indians the Central WC game is BoSox at Astros. I'd love to sneak the Sox in there, but it's not happening. I do think we have a decent shot at second place in the division FWIW.

tag team back again! (Jock jams song) ____ shake shake it lets begin! send them both to the HOF. Davidson and Garcia!

Avi!! They're both table, but like someone else said when he's on a hot streak his palatable. Once he goes 0-7 in two games though? I'd sit him for a week ha. I only want his hot streaks.

Gun to your head. Davidson or Garcia for the rest of the year - can only choose 1.... I'm taking Garcia. Woof.

This move is a bit of desperation .. Davidson at his best will come up at hit ...240 and provide some power. Any extended stay and he'll be absolutely Hopefully h'll hit like 3 dingers this week.. much rather see May

I know we have spoke on this at nauseum, but does anybody else find watching the games at home a little bit boring? All those homers yesterday and I just kind of watched them.. when Hawk is out there I am screaming stretch! at the TV How about a 3 man booth?? I know that time with his kids is the reason hawk doesn't want to be there... so not plausible, but I really do want his calls , but not his banter. Leave that to Benneti

QUOTE (Dunt @ Jun 28, 2016 -> 12:03 PM) Sox record against: Red Sox 4-3 Astros 1-2 Jays 5-1 JenniferLawrenceOk.gif I'm glad we've beaten those teams, but they definitely are better than us. Hey this team was never as good as they were in the first month or as bad as they were during that awful stretch. Probably is about right to be .500 right now. But when I look at the 4-5 of Gonzalez and Shields it is a lot better than Latos and Danks. So hopefully we can be the 85-87 win team we hoped for.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Jun 28, 2016 -> 10:39 AM) The Rangers are 19th in wRC+ and they have a crazy-good record in 1-run games despite a bullpen ERA of 4.69. I read an article about how they're currently on pace to be the luckiest team of all-time in terms of sequencing. Way too early to just put them into the World Series out of the AL. They're much closer to a .500 team than their current record in terms of true talent. They've had quite a run recently but I'm not at all convinced they're the best team in the AL. That may very well be. I just look at that team with Darvish and without the injuries to the starting rotation and also maybe add in a Gallo plus maybe trading a prospect or two to solidify that bullpen... I don't there are many better teams in the AL. It's just my opinion that they have the Minor Leauge talent, the aggressive FO, people on the DL, and talented team where by September that's going to be even more of a well greased machine.

Just taking a step back, these are my thoughts: Most talented teams: Central: Indians - they've been doing this with a banged up and almost non-existent OF. If Brantley could ever get healthy and they make a decent acquisition? This team then gets that much more scary. Plus anything from Yan Gomes would be another huge plus. This team is the most complete in the division. Royals - they have weathered a ton of injuries. I don't see them being over aggressive like last year because they know they probably have a year or two where the fan base will come if they are just in the thick of it. They need a few too many pieces and I just don't see them trading their prospects for the pithcing they need. Sox - we need a C, OF, and DH help. Bullpen too. We know our problems. Tigers - This team has offensive talent. Some iffy pitching talent and a bad bullpen. See them hovering around and probably hitting a 10-15 real rough patch that puts them out of it. Maybe that rough patch instead goes well and they are in it til the end too but doubtful. East: Orioles - They have the bats. Their pitching has actually been decent. Still could add an arm. This team isn't going anywhere though. Jays - Offense is there. Pitching is decent. Sanchez wont be starting all year though. They'll have a Chavez step in or Floyd. They'll be around all year. BoSox - offense is amazing. Pitching isn't. We know how aggressive they can and will be. They have the prospects. This team will be in it. YAnks - A shame they'll waste that three headed monster for the 7-8-9 innings. Team is just too old and frail and thin. They are caught where we are. They know if they do make the playoffs they probably could make noise, but they should probably tear it down and trade to gain prospects. Rays - my most surprising team. They were .500 before a ton of injuries. This was a team that I predicted could win the WS. Them and the Rangers. Pithcing depth is amazing. They'll probably trade off a few of those SP and get a few prospects in return for the field. They'll be strong next year. Erasmo Ramirez is a guy I'd look at for the Sox. I like him. West Rangers- best team in the AL IMO and they have had only 3 starts from Darvish. Offesnse is deep and have had nothing from Fielder. Think about the 1-2 punch of DArvish and Hamels in the playoffs with that offense. Think they'll be in the WS against the Cubs. Astros - I am biased as I lived in Houston last year, but this team really doesn't have many holes. Not the strongest pitching or bullpen, but can get it done. Angels - Out of it. just don't have the makeup to win this year or next year. Sucks for Trout, that team isn't very good. A's - not a very good team Seattle - team has a very injured pithcing staff. Before that they were right in the thick of it. Maybe they get healthy and go on a run, but I put their chances with the likes of the Sox and Yanks. So all of that: 2 WC running... I'd say the teams better than us are definitely: BoSox, Jays, Stros In the ballpark with us: Yanks, Royals, Seattle, ChiSox Hanging on by a thread: Tigers, Rays Out - Angels, A's, Twins We'll need a bit of luck and hope that the East beats each other up enough. Also #1 is we'll have to beat our AL central opponents to have any chance. I think you can give the BoSox 1 WC as they will make the big trade to get a SP. Jays, Stros, and Royals will be our main competition for the second spot. Jays might have trouble with their rotation staying healthy and strong. Sanchez is on an innings limit. Stroman is one year removed from TJ Surgery. etc. You move a Chavez or a Floyd from the bullpen and all of a sudden the BP is weaker. Royals keep doing this despite their rotation and lack of household names and injuries in the field. I don't know what to say. What the Sox need to do is: acquire a BP guy, hope that Morneau is the answer we want and hopefully add some kind of super utility speed guy to the bench that can steal bases and play multiple positions. I'd like to Erasmo Ramirez on this team. Insurance for the rotation and can fill a nice gap in the bullpen at a relatively lower price.

I know he hasn't passed the eye test, but this confirms it. A bit scary. Still last year he did have a tale of two seasons - so if we're going positive spin zone? Maybe his second half will be damn good. If we're going the other way, combined with the second half of last season? He's hitting like a combined .210. Also he's never hit over 10hr's in the second half of a season.. WE may be looking at Adam Dunn type of numbers if this continues.. .190 BA, 35HR..............

I'm giving an A for so far. My biggest worry is what others are saying. Once teams get the "book" on him it will be interesting to see if he can re-adjust. He's going to strikeout - that's not going to change. But I'd like to see a few walks in there. But not everybody has to walk to be productive. Vlad Guerrero didn't walk. (also didn't K much if I remember too) He'll take his bumps and bruises, and ultimately should be hitting 7-9 IMO - but for now, let it ride.

Very true. I bought Scout seats for $150 early in the season and it ended up being like $30 extra on each seat. And that's what I'm paying. Buyer is paying some too I believe. I've really wanted to know who owns those seats too. They sell them almost every game it seems. Instead of paying $180 and him getting $125 out of it, I'd rather just pay $125 person to person.

Some of these Sale returns are kind of ridiculous. Switch jerseys and say what you'd give up for Sale if you were the BoSox. Yoan Mocada is a good reasonable start with Pedroia in the way. Owens is too. And the Sox covet Swihart (even though I'm not sure he won't be the next Weiters rather than Posey -- true talent would have played his way into the every day lineup by now) After that? I just feel like you might be hard pressed to get much more. Also I think you can get the same haul basically next year, so why rush it this year? I still am giving this club 1 total more year. June 2017 then close the coffin on this team.