he gone.

I'll be the first to say it was poor allocation of resources for a small market team like the sox. (don't get sidetracked by the word small market - we are. big market, and even mid market teams don't make budget cuts in a "championship window" - we are the definition of the rays, oakland and cleveland). You shouldn't pour your biggest contract into a catcher on the wrong side of 30. It's a boneheaded allocation of money. Catcher and second base are two positions that need not money. Replacement level and defense are fine for those spots. Which is why i love hahn so much ... he loves to spend in all the wrong places... Bullpen - paying guys off of good years. It always makes me laugh. Bullpens need a few good arms, after that you're really just searching for the Anthony Swarzaks of the world you can ride cheap and then let $$ hungry teams overpay them to fail. Allocating money there is ill advised. Catcher - Same. You need a guy who can call a game, frame pitches, and can have occasional pop in his bat. You shouldn't be allocating $18mm/yr unless you're a franchise that is willing to spend Second base - can't wait for Segura to come along when you have more than enough replacement level options in house. Or even trade prospects for Lowe. Second base is a luxury spot. you don't need a strong arm, you don't need be athletic. you're basically an 8 hole type guy. So of course hahn is obsessed w 2B. Top 5 draft pick, spending FA money, etc. Utility - you get basically the same production out of guys like mendick as you do out of our friend Leury. But alas, Mr. Hahn spends. Foolish. But here we are. Hahn has basically gone bizarro world on spending/roster construction and now we have no money and our team sucks in the middle of the "championship window" All of that said, I think it'd make sense to give the fluff pieces around Yaz some merit. When you have a career of like what ...8? 10? years and there's one outlier ... i tend to take the larger body of evidence while also being cognizant that he's a catcher and older and sometimes you fall off a cliff. If money isn't a problem, then Yaz isn't a problem. If money is a problem, then Yaz is a problem.

i would just argue that injuries do play an important part in that. I think we all are cognizant of that & a GM would likely use both last years information against his whole career to make a decision. Are his knees and power completely shot, or does he have more left in the tank? I'd think at 18mm on a one year obligation a contending team would take that risk for what he can bring to a table.

Looked at Lowes stats, better than i expected in most places. Except the man cannot hit a slider to save his life.

Which is exactly why i think you'll see grandal's name pop up more. People think I was/am crazy that we'd be able to trade him coming off his season. but if you look at the position, particularly on some of the top teams, they could use a catcher. you get a vet on a one year deal, left handed bat and someone who was constantly shifted against. (all the reasons i think he'll have a bounce back year). But i digress. I can totally see the sox offloading yaz to keep more money in JR pockets. Same with Joe Kelly. both are "terrible contracts" in sox fans minds, but think are basically market value and would probably be able to just offload onto a team. Of course, it doesn't make the 2023 sox better, it just keeps JR happy that he gets to keep his money.

Have a feeling we're going to see more than a few trades from the current roster with a return of other MLB level talent. I'm calling this the Carlos Lee - Scott Podsednik offseason. I also have little faith that Hahn will have this team better on the other side.

Just a reminder Conforto turned down a 1/18mm deal ... I know he had a shoulder, but I'd be shocked if he takes less than 15mm on a year deal. I'd venture he'd take something like 3/42mm just as a safety net on years if you gave him options out after each year (like nick martinez), but he's not settling for 10mm on a year basis. I was told my takes were bad ... 44. Michael Conforto. One year, $15MM. Steve: Red Sox / Tim: Red Sox / Anthony: Rangers / Darragh: Reds Conforto looked like he was on his way to potentially waiting for the 2022 draft so he could shed the draft-pick compensation attached to him after rejecting a qualifying offer from the Mets last year. Instead, a shoulder injury sustained during the lockout required surgery that wiped out his entire 2022 campaign. Conforto was coming off a down season in the first place, as his 2021 slash of .232/.344/.384 paled in comparison to the .265/.369/.495 line he’d logged from 2017-20 combined. Now, he’ll test the market with uncertainty surrounding his shoulder and with two years having elapsed since his that 2017-20 peak. The upside here is an All-Star right fielder with 30-homer power, so there should still be interest — just likely on a short-term deal. Conforto won’t even turn 30 until March, so if he bounces back in 2023, a one-year deal (or a multi-year deal that allows him to return to the market via opt-out/player option next winter) could still give him a chance at a nine-figure deal as a 31-year-old.

While i know how this will play out, I'd love to at least hear that we made gio a 4 year, 80mm extension offer and he turned it down before we trade him and he ultimately goes on to have a nice career elsewhere with a ton of success. I can see it already ... Giolito to the Dodgers, Giants or Angels. Also before everybody gets up in arms about that being too much money, dont forget he finished 6,7,11 in cy young award voting before this last year where he had a 4.06 FIP. Was always hopeful we'd keep this core together a bit longer as it had promise. But alas we have a terrible GM and a terrible owner. Mismanaged funds + a poor vision of when to push the pedal down and make a few good signings this offseason lead to this ...

140-160IP in the damn future my man. I clearly say that i'd go 80-100IP next year and then move him into that 150ip range for the rest of his time with the sox and if his arm falls off or he fails, so be it. he's a cheap, controllable asset. you run cheap controllable assets into the ground when you have no intention of resigning them. The sox do not sign pitchers long term. So if the young man wants to be a starting pitcher you throw him out there and do so. youre so desperately grasping at straws to try and win an argument that isn't even there. Troll.

Where do you see 150IP in this statement? I could swear i say 80-100IP next year. But maybe I'm crazy. This is a no-brainer to me. Crochet = Kopech coming off his break from baseball. Only difference is I would push his innings above the 70IP (or thereabouts) that Kopech pitched that year. I'd like to see him around 80-100ip, which, based on the timing of return, may be a lot.

I'll hang up and listen.

I'll take an L on those numbers. Didn't dig that deep - just grabbed the baseball reference numbers per year without minor league numbers added back in. Both very good posts by you. I won't take an L on comparing Garret Crochet pitching as a starter akin to running an ironman. A professional pitcher pitching an additional 40ip next year, and then 50ip the year beyond is not akin picking up and running an iron man untrained. The same people on this board who complain about going to easy on Robert and Yoan are the same ones advocating for taking an easy on Crochet. I stick by that if the man wants to be a starter, let's try that out.. again.. i'd ask what is the medical reason why he can't be a starter? Bullpen guys are generally bullpen guys because they don't have a mix of pitches and can only throw one or two successfully. Unless that is the case with Crochet and it is proven he cant go through an order more than a few times, then I'd throw him to the wolves. It's all hypothetical anyways. nobody knows the answer on this board ... so nobody will win this argument. There's no way for us to prove he can or cannot be a starting pitcher in the MLB without trying. I am for trying.

And then explain to me after that explanation Chris Sale's career. Never pitched over 102ip through college and thru 2 MLB seasons. The 5 seasons after he averaged over 200ip as a starter for the Sox. For dirt cheap. There is no downside to letting this kid throw his arm out. If it works, you have a plus arm, for cheap, who wants to throw innings. If it doesn't you've lost a 8th inning setup guy for a season with whatever arm injury he comes down with. It's such a simple decision.

Explain to me in medical terms why he can't go from 60ip to 100ip. And then from 100ip to 150ip.

Call me crazy or call me an old timer ala Dusty and Hawk - but not sure I buy the arguments of innings limits and corresponding injuries really have all that much correlation at the end of the day. I'm more from the camp that you either have it or you don't. You either have the rubber arm, or you break down. Also Luis Severino is a perfect example. The guy threw 62ip, 71ip, then two years of 190ip, then didn't pitch in 2019, 2020, and 2021 before throwing 102ip in 2022. I don't care if Crochets arm falls off. We have 4 cheap years of him. Throw him as much as you can. You lose 50-60ip? Who cares. Try and milk him for 140-160ip while he's young. If he's good you're not resigning him anyways, Sox are too cheap. If he's bad or gets injured you lose a cheap arm. Really no downside to letting him loose.

I dont feel like digging into all the candidates off TJS ... but "no way" he can become a starter over FOUR years? "no way" unless he spends TWO YEARS in the minors? You don't even have to dig far ... Luis Severino just did 102IP off of TJS. Sure there will be setbacks when you push a guy that hard (aka Severino had a lat strain). But injuries for pitchers are going to happen. Luis Severino will go 150IP next year no problem. 150IP is basically what Giolito and Cueto did this year. Crochet will be the guy who replaces Giolito in the rotation in 2024 (assuming we don't reach an agreement with Gio)

This is a no-brainer to me. Crochet = Kopech coming off his break from baseball. Only difference is I would push his innings above the 70IP (or thereabouts) that Kopech pitched that year. I'd like to see him around 80-100ip, which, based on the timing of return, may be a lot. Start him off in bullpen as 1-2IP guy. Very slow. Then build to 2-3IP (maybe even opener role) and by August/September I'd have him as a 4-5ip guy as part of a 6 man type rotation/double headers/etc. Aka, basically Davis Martin type. If Crochet pitches how he's capable and the Sox play to their abilities he's going to be a key weapon to eat 2-3IP in big playoff situations. The year beyond that he should be able to slot in Giolito's role. If all falls apart ... and you have no chance of re-upping Gio, then I'd trade Gio and slot Crochet into his role mid-season. The Sox are going to have to quickly decide over the next 12 months if they are going at this like the Cubs did, or they're going to change directions and approach as the Rays, Milwaukee, Cleveland have and trade off assets near the end of the contract even though they are in contention. Not to turn this into a Gio thread, but I'm a GIANT buyer off a down year. He's a heady guy who throws innings. I'll take him at 4 years and up to $75mm to get it done. If it comes apparent he's not biting then I am a GIANT seller of Giolito and probably exploring trade options this offseason, though hoping for a bounce back and trading him mid-season when his value is higher.

To me, the upside downside isn't there. We have him for 2 more years at a very reasonable price. SS is one of the deeper positions with 4 premium SS available in this off-season alone. This decreases his relative value this offseason. You also have to consider the in-house options which are currently thin to say the least. There's absolutely no reason to create a hole on this team. You keep him, you see how Colson does this year, you see how TA bounces back after being a year removed from his family issues and reassess next offseason. It seems hard for fans to remember just how good he was at the start of last season. Through the first two months he was batting like .360. Tim is not the issue, nor is his salary. nor is his contract. next offseason you have a ton more clarity in regards to the direction of this team both from a payroll perspective as well as true odds to win. (not to mention Colson). Next year is the year you trade him

I never understood the infatuation with hiring someone from a "winning organization". To me, it's a nothing burger. You see it all the time in all sports. In the NFL you get guys who are hired like the Broncos coach because he was tied to the Packers and Rodgers. As if Rodgers success is due to him, and not vice versa. Same thing with guys like Brady and Mahomes, etc. Inevitably they go to their new teams and fail and GM's do it over and over and over. You see the propensity to do this in the MLB too. As if the bench coach for the Astros is the reason their core is all succeeding. Not because they have the deepest pitching staff and murderers row with Yordan, Tucker, Bregman, Altuve, etc. etc. There's something to be said about learning from the "greats" and also being in a winning organization in terms of observing the ins and outs of a winning culture ... but all things considered I just don't think it's a big deal. There's enough thoughtful and talented people in MLB that if you have enough connections should be able to rise to the top through reputation. Hopefully this is one of those guys.

AMEN. What does it hurt to bring in 30 MLB caliber managers to talk. Even if you only hire one, what's wrong with talking to 30 perspectives? One might say something the others hadn't and take you in a total different direction. There's no rush here. The world series hasn't even finished yet ... let's talk to as many people as we want. Ours is the number one job available with a top 10 payroll and young talent. talk away until you find someone that makes you stop and that you NEED to hire that guy. A better direction for this thread would be questions you'd ask a perspective manager. I want to hear what you want to have answered as a fan. Mine #1 question to a manager would be center around Abreu and if they'd bring him back and how it'd change how they manage with or without him.

grabbed some popcorn. cant wait for everybody to critique mendoza when they didn't even know he was a human being that existed up until an hour ago. my opinion is we should do another 87 pages on this thread about the manager because we know so much about their interviews, what they said in them, how they would approach certain players, etc. etc. We know so much, so shouldn't be hard to fill another 87 pages with well thought out posts on the positives and negatives.

Are people really doing this? Two accounts trying to stir up s%*# on a message board? Good god, that's cray cray. this message board is already poor we don't need extra chaos. sad sad stuff.

I feel like Espada is the most interviewed least hired manager in the biz. Not that really means anything at the end of the day, just conjecture, but would sure love to be a fly on the wall. What is he doing in all these interviews never to be chosen? I take all the Portillo's and beat writers insight with a big grain of salt anyways. As for Oz if he truly said what he said he was going to say and still is in the running? I think there's at least 50/50 chance he's back. I mean, as someone already said JR said he burnt a bridge on the way out, but somehow has made his way back into the day to day on TV. And then on TV he said something along the lines of "if they want to talk to me, I will, but I am going to be honest and theyll kick me out of the room" If he said whatever was so provocative that he thought he had no chance ... and still does? It might just happen that he's the next manager. To me, all of these candidates are good by me. I'd love Ron Washington. I'd love Ozzie. I'd be great with Espada. dont know anything about Long ... but fine there too - maybe can teach these guys to swing for hte fences again.

We'll bookmark this for when he signs. I'll go 1 year, $16mm. Don't forget ... Seiya Suzuki, $17mm annually, Avi garcia $13.25mm annually, Soler $12mm annually (all multi year), Mark Canha $13.25mm annually...Schwarbs $20mm. Andrew McCutchen got $8.5mm, Tommy Pham got $7.5mm... If you're saying the price of Conforto is less than Mark Canha just cause of a shoulder injury and time off then sign me up. Getting the same type of deal that McCutchen got would be a steal. I'd fire my agent in a second if that's what he told me to sign.

My offseason - video game version while keeping it realistic inside Reinsdorf's stupid money constraints because he's a moron and doesn't realize when to play his A/K suited hand. Catcher: Grandal Leave as is. You will not get anything of value for him in return and is a sunk cost at this point. Unless you're trying to clear that salary and attach a guy with it to a contending team? It doesn't seem very plausible. But in my perfect world, if you're trading that salary successfully it better be to spend immediately on someone more impactful. Otherwise you hope that he successfully finds a rehab doctor/routine and improves his knees. You hope that having no shift improves his BA and his power comes back to some form. If you can get 100 games behind the plate and 20 at DH with 20HR and 70RBI while working counts and taking walks? It's a victory. Was always a bad signing to spend that much money on a guy who plays 75% of the games. He has to return what a $24mm player does in 3/4ths of the games to be worth it. Catcher while important, is NOT a premium position, its a position of luxury and as a mid market (sadly) team, you CANNOT spend on catcher like we did because if it doesnt work perfectly you're screwed. shame on hahn for not understanding this simple concept. 1b: This is the video game version after all. Which is the version where i look not just to this year, but into the future. aka how the brewers traded hader. sadly in this version, just like the packers, we must walk away from aaron rodgers/jose abreu. In my real offseason version I'd keep him in a heartbeat. Here without emotion? I move on. AV is the easy choice. we move on. 2b: This one is sure to shake the board up. Trade for Nick Madrigal. seriously. Cubs have Hoerner. They are going to be in the mix for one of the bigger SS ... I just don't see how there's room for him there and his season went terribly. His cost is likely low. Like maybe it's as easy as Burger or Sheets ... both are decent fits. I'm sure this the most likely to get quote selected ... but he's controllable. He is a great 9 hole hitter to turn the lineup over and puts the ball into play. (I know i know we just got off a year of all singles) SS: There was an urge for me to say trade Tim Anderson. But he has those two option years left so there's no rush to do it now. I'd rather get another year out of Colson and see how he's progressing (or not) and you still have solid trade value on TA going into next offseason. My thought to trade him has ZERO to do with his off field hiccup or his collapse last year. Just that he has some value on that contract and we may have a replacement. If we truly are going to compete year in and year out we should be smart enough to look in the mirror and know we cant be the dodgers or boston, etc. and spend our way into contention most years. we have to be more along the lines of the Rays, Brewers, Oakland, Guardians, etc. etc. So if you have a guy who's ready to take your SS place then you have to consider moving TA when he has trade value remaining regardless where you are in the push for a WS (aka look at the guardians talking about trading Rosario this offseason). 3B: While I'd love to package Moncada up and send him packing that contract is atrocious. $41mm due over the next two years is all but impossible to trade especially at maybe his all time low trade value. I stand by that he and Yaz are the keys to us winning a WS. That said, this is the video game version, so let's have fun ... What you may be able to do is flip someone like Moncada for another poor contract ... think something like Moncada and Burger to the Marlins for Brian Anderson and Avi Garcia. $41mm and 2 years on Moncada. $36mm and 3 years left for Avi. We now have a RF and someone who can take innings as backup around the OF. Anderson slots in as a passable 3b too. CF: I'll start with Center. Robert. no explanation needed. DH: Eloy, easy. Slot in LF maybe 40 games. Done. Can't trade him at his lower trade value anyways. Talent is too tantalizing to trade at this value and cost. since you don't have abreu/vaughn conundrum anymore, he's your DH. LF: There's a few names i like, not love. brantley coming off an injury and 37 years old? Maybe a good affordable option to plug into LF and hope between him and Pollock + Eloy you can scrap together 160 starts? In a perfect world both Pollock and Brantley bounce back and stay healthy. Otherwise ... benintendi fits so well. i hate it, cause he's that slightly above average player that is affordable enough that keeps most teams in it, which drives up price. aka, look at avi garcia. he's just good enough to keep teams like the marlins in the bidding. those type of guys are tough ... meanwhile you see the big names and it's like 3-5 teams realistically can sign them so their cost per WAR is sometimes relatively cheap. I'll go Brantley for this write-up since I'm trying to keep payroll somewhat in line with what JR would allow. Brantley 1 year, 8mm RF: In my scenario you have Avi, Brian Anderson and Brantley to hold this down until you have Colas. None of those guys above really should hold back a Colas if he's really going to be good. But they're all good enough to squint and play good baseball. Avi can bounce around as can Anderson and Pollock. Good flexibility for injuries. Is it sexy? no. but it gets the job done and opens up salary Others: Do what you need to do to get rid of Leury's contract. Anything. Attach a prospect for all i care. i say this because that $5mm a year is crucial to my plan after this. You need to clear the likes of Leury and Joe Kelly and bite the bullet in terms of okay prospects going with them. That, or JR needs to spend a bit more for a year or two as a bridge. OF: Brantley, Robert, Garcia, Pollock, Anderson, Eloy IF: Anderson, Anderson, Madrigal, Vaughn, Romy or Sosa, Yaz and some backup, any backup C DH: Eloy, Yaz, Brantley Lineup 1-9: Anderson, Robert, Eloy, Brantley, Vaughn, Avi Garcia, Yaz, Br. Anderson, Madrigal Pitching staff: Based on the above I think I've saved $20mm pre-arb raises. I'd use this to really solidify the rotation. I like Bassitt in the Lynn mold. A bit older, always has been consistent, and still affordable. I think he could maybe be had at the same as the lynn type deal. 3/54mm? There's your $20mm spent. Even payroll. Verlander would be my real choice if we were to go for it. Give him 3 years, $120mm. It's truly the thing that would put us over the top and back into real contention. Having a guy like him, Cease, Lynn, Gio and Kopech? You're now again in the top tier alongside the Astros and Dodgers and Braves and Mets. without him? It's fine, we're the phillies/mariners/rays/etc. etc. a team that can maybe do something, but likely wont. Offer Giolito a 4 year, 68mm extension. If he turns it down, you trade him. I have a feeling he'll turn it down, but I think you offer him a number that is strong coming off a bad year, but shorter duration as the sox like to do. this wouldve been a steal at this point last offseason. He's gavin floyd folks. He's a good #3 pitcher who can be a #1 for stretches and #5 for stretches. But certainly has the talent to make a difference in the playoffs. Lynn/Cease/Kopech all remain, no changes. I think Davis Martin and Crochet should get injury duty and work middle relief. Bullpen: Keep the same. Again, if there's ANY WAY to trade Kelly, you do it. That $20mm saved goes to like $29mm and then signing a big name like Verlander really isn't that crazy considering you saved $29mm and spend $40mm ($11mm increase). The following year Yaz is off the books with Pollock. You'd be paying Avi $12mm instead of $24mm to Moncada .. so you're talking $43mm just there... again, that pays for another year of Verlander. Rotation: Verlander/Cease/Lynn/Giolito/Kopech with Crochet and Martin ready to roll for injury and innings management. I don't think any of the above is really OUTLANDISH or unrealistic. Verlander probably is, but that's why I shaved a lot of salary to get there. On paper though, that's a real team.

Just a reminder Conforto turned down a 1/18mm deal ... I know he had a shoulder, but I'd be shocked if he takes less than 15mm on a year deal. I'd venture he'd take something like 3/42mm just as a safety net on years if you gave him options out after each year (like nick martinez), but he's not settling for 10mm on a year basis.