harkness99

We really don't know... But they all need to go... Sale...Ventura... Hahn... Williams. I can't blame Sale for be tired of the losing and the JR Robots... but he needs to go as well for a lot of reasons.. one being we should be able to get a lot for him.

I'm sure they are listening.. but it would l take levels of talent or production that teams probably will not give up. And that's what it should take. Some talented prospects are not enough for Chris Sale.. you need at least some proof of MLB production. Odor would have to be at minimum part of the package.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 05:55 PM) I think Rick Hahn has done a good job actually. Some have said our weakness us ar CF and DH. I might add catcher too. I think those positions could be improved through lesser trades and free agent signings. Lesser trades meaning none of our current starters. We have a real decent nucleus If Hahn has done a good job... then why have we been so bad the past 3-4 years? Ventura? Avi Garcia? Reinsdorf? Curious.. because we are failing across the board.

I'd really like to see another manager have a shot... It may not make any difference, but the status quo hasn't been working.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Jul 20, 2016 -> 08:29 PM) I would pass on both, personally. Don't like Gallo's high K rate. Gallo... uh no Look up his minor league stats... not very impressive.

Sale is about the only one I wouldn't consider trading.

Well frazier has been producing....Abreu looks like Avisail Garcia lately.

Nice job by Morneau... Abreu starting to look like Avi junior out there.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 19, 2016 -> 05:35 PM) Thank you for this. I am a believe in putting in your closer when you are way behind but not when you are way ahead. I don't think Ventura necessarily made a bad decision last night.. Sale was losing it. I might have left him in for at least one batter (I believe two lefties were coming up).

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 19, 2016 -> 05:08 PM) He will have a solid season. The problem is, he's the 3rd highest paid closer in baseball. For that either you want a fantastic season or you want a playoff birth where he's a key figure in it. Barring that, when he does something bad, which happens in a "solid" season, people are going to be angry. Right I understand that sentiment for sure. 16 MLB pitchers had over a 90% save rate last year. Robertson is around 85% with us. That doesn't seem "fantastic" but maybe he will finish the season on fire.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jul 19, 2016 -> 02:56 PM) @write sox David Robertson in 2 games against KC (5/28) and SEA (6/18): 1.1 IP, 10 ER, 67.50 ERA In other 34 games: 35.2 IP, 7 ER, 1.77 ERA Robertson still has a lot of season to define his success level this year. Last night was really bad because after getting swept by the Angels that game was important for teams confidence moving forward. He still could have a solid season... The initial title and bravado of this thread was that Robertson was a "Fantastic" closer and that we should all shut up. I think that is debatable and TBD.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 19, 2016 -> 12:36 PM) I do not disagree with the claim that he's overpaid. The White Sox believed they were a closer away from being a playoff team - in that situation overpaying for a closer could be an acceptable move. The problem isn't that they spent the money on him and overpaid a closer, it's the logic that went into them believing they were a closer away. I'd agree with that.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 19, 2016 -> 11:46 AM) Robertson was a setup man prior to the 2014 season because the New York Yankees had something of a decent closer. If you don't remember that guy he'll be giving a speech 2 years from now. Robertson spent 5+ full seasons in that role and in that role he gets credit for a BS on a bad day but does not get credit for a save on a good day. His Save %age since becoming a full time closer is 86%. Since he became the full time closer for the Yankees.. 85% save rate. However if you look at Addison Reed he has a similar amount of blown saves as a "non closer" since we are going to now use this as some kind of differentiation. I think Reed is worse.. but my point really is more that Robertson is okay but not top tier.. and not worth that kind of money. I'd like my closer to be 90% plus (which 16 closers in MLB were last year).

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jul 19, 2016 -> 11:55 AM) we can place this narrative next to "Gamethreads are directly affected by games on channel 50" There were a few new people I never realized played in the post season. I'm not sure how that compares to other teams. So yeah if 10/25 of your active roster is a good number I guess I'm wrong. However some aren't really active atm...

just gotta keep grinding it out.

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Jul 19, 2016 -> 10:02 AM) You're only discounting Shields, Avila and Jackson's playoff experience because it doesn't fit the narrative. And you obviously don't have a clue what you're talking about because Melky and Robertson were both on the 2009 Yankees that won the World Series. Robertson also pitched in 3 other postseasons and Melky was also in the playoffs 2 other times with the Yankees and once with the Braves. I completely forgot the 2009 Yankees... I hadn't remembered the Yankees winning one in quite awhile. So I guess... on our 40 man roster we have 5 players with playoff experience. I guess that's probably common on many bad/mediocre teams. Not sure if it changes my initial "narrative" - we don't have many players who have experienced winning/know how to win at the big league level.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jul 19, 2016 -> 10:23 AM) Why isnt Reed closing games anymore lol... I never said Reed was good.. or that I want him closing games. Some dude said Addison Reed comparison was silly... I'm just pointing out they have the same career save %. I'm not saying Reed is good... I'm saying Robertson may not be a closer worth that kind of money. I was starting to believe in him until last night... but going back for two years now he has way too many blown saves.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 19, 2016 -> 09:49 AM) The timing of this blown save really freaking sucked. It's caused a lot of people to overreact a bit, which is understandable. But these sort of things happen. Robertson hasn't been elite, but he's been solid .The comparison to Addison Reed is laughable. Ultimately, David Robertson is not anywhere near this team's bigger problems. Addison reed 81% career save David Robertson 81 % career save. That's before his blow last night... so Reed might be higher now.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 19, 2016 -> 09:17 AM) Avila and Jackson made the playoffs four consective seasons. Shields in 2008 and 2014...in the World Series. Robertson with the Yankees when he could throw 96-98. Cabrera with the Giants. Neither Avila and Jackson are playing. Shields hasn't been here very long. Cabrera was suspended for the last couple months and didn't play in the post season. The Yankees never won anything when Roberston was there. So maybe ... a little bit there.. but still pretty thin.

When you look at the roster... what player has won anything at the major league level? I could find any that had.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jul 19, 2016 -> 01:18 AM) But thats how Robertsons curve acts ,starts high and then dives down. A lot of umps are bad at calling a good knee high curve ball a strike because lots of catchers have to dip their gloves beneath the strike zone to catch it because that's where it goes. I only watched the 1st 3 hitters slowed down pitch by pitch . The 3rd pitch to Cruz was a very nice curve. Navarro set up low and away and Robertson threw it there. Stopped it when I thought ball crossed the plate and it looked perfect. The downward action on the ball made Navarro bring his glove down but he didn't dip his glove . Pitch trax called it a ball and so did the ump. I honestly couldn't blame Navarro on that one either. After the Cruz AB I stopped. Umps miss a good curve ball for the same reason hitters do.They call it a 12 to 6 curve for a reason . It starts off high on the clock (12 o'clock) then dives down to 6 . Honestly I don't agree. I'm a bit confused why you are making excuses for him. I went back and watched it also. I'm 100% sure he could have framed those pitches better. Were they easy to frame? No but he made ZERO effort to sell them as strikes. It's bad catching period. He is well known for his inability to frame pitches. This isn't anything new. http://www.statcorner.com/CatcherReport.php

If you guys like playing together time is running out.

QUOTE (Deadpool @ Jul 18, 2016 -> 11:46 PM) Cool story, bro. Nice post... are you 12? People who watched that inning know what I'm talking about. I blame Robertson more, but Navarro was also a culprit.

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Jul 18, 2016 -> 11:41 PM) Nail in the coffin boys. Fire the entire coaching staff after the season. Fire Hahn, Kenny and the scouts. Start fresh. Go all out for a great young group of fresh faces. Sell sell sell. I really don't want to see any of their faces for a long long time.

I just wanted to add what garbage A** catching he does at times. He cost Robertson at least two strikes. Just terrible.