harkness99

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 13, 2015 -> 10:46 AM) If you have been watching for 25 years, you have seen plenty of games where the other team makes lots of stupid mistakes. True all teams make mistakes for sure. But you really have to follow a team to know if its systemic or not. I mean the Royals sure look like they don't make many mistakes... I've watched them probably more than many teams. But still can't say I know enough about them day to day.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Aug 13, 2015 -> 10:39 AM) Cherry picking? It is 100 percent true what he said, this thread is just complaining to complain. You would think the Sox lost last night Lol wow... I said the manager CAN cost the team a game... just they usually don't Would you agree that even one game is important? Can you guys really not understand that? This thread was started in the middle of the game... not after. So yeah after we win everyone can throw their chests out. And also complaining on a message board... or arguing about anything. It's all complaining just to complain... or arguing just to argue because non of this changes anything. It's funny though because after my intial criticism I really haven't complained about anything... just defending a position.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 13, 2015 -> 10:29 AM) Especially in a game where you have a team who is supposed to have one of the best managers in the league and his team making more stupid mistakes to blow a key game for them. I don't watch Angels games for the last 25 years. I really have no opinion of Sciosa. I guess I'm supposed to make conclusions about the Angels from one game.

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Aug 13, 2015 -> 10:25 AM) Makes a thread to complain about the coaching staff and then makes a post contradicting that by acknowledging that managers have little effect on the outcome. Make up your f***ing mind would ya? What Abreu did was just a brain fart. It happens even to the best players. It has nothing to do with Ventura or the coaching staff. The constant complaints about Ventura every time a Sox player makes a fundamental error that is taught in little league gets a little annoying. If a bunch of schlubs on a message board know that a play was made incorrectly do you really think that a Major Leaguer doesn't understand that as well? I don't think you can coach instincts, you either have them or you don't. Here ya go johnny come lately... I didn't say managing NEVER effects the outcome of the game. They play 162 games. I thought the lack of fundamentals and the decision making were going to cost the White Sox the game... luckily it didn't. I'm not sure knowing where to throw the ball in every situation is instincts either... that being said I acknowledged that it could be on Abreu. But just looks like you are cherry picking chit.

Wanted to give the dude his props. He held it down and gave us a chance.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 13, 2015 -> 09:39 AM) What other lack of fundamentals other than a guy making a mental error occurred? And pitching to David Murphy who was 2 for 10 vs. Robertson? Robertson was 8 for 10 against him. Sox win, Sox sweep. Complain about Robin. I really wonder why many so called White Sox fans just can't enjoy White Sox wins, but have to dissect everything to try to find something they can complain about. Enjoy the win. Enjoy the sweep. Hope for another. Dumb plays happen with every team, even teams with guys you think would be perfect managers. If you haven't noticed it, you aren't paying attention. I really think if the Sox were on the same roll Toronto is on, there would be complaints that it was not sustainable, they would come back down to earth, etc. Well Murphy is a great pinch hitter as of late and the guy hitting after him is hitting .182 and a much easier out. Hey but its strategy which we could always argue about. I don't dissect everything that Ventura does... I haven't said squat about him for a month or two. My post was not after we won but in the middle of the game when it looked like that play could cost us the game. Don't even give me the "so called" line. If you want to criticize the bandwagon type... maybe but otherwise there is little point in trying to define fandom. I really enjoyed the sweep. I also think you are no dummy Dick Allen.. we just don't agree on Ventura.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 13, 2015 -> 09:33 AM) Trout was thrown out at home as well. Yeah I missed a couple innings I never saw that play.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 13, 2015 -> 09:31 AM) Then why did you start this thread? I didn't say it NEVER effects the outcome of the game. They play 162 games. I thought the lack of fundamentals and the decision making were going to cost the White Sox the game... luckily it didn't.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 13, 2015 -> 09:21 AM) Yet against the worst pitcher in the league, and against a team with a horrible, historically bad offense, and perhaps the dumbest manager in history, the Angels lost, and were swept. Amazing how that could possibly happen. It's baseball - the manager's effect on the outcome (as you have said 1000 times) is often not important... doesn't change the perception of competence or incompetence. Bad teams having winning streaks all the time. The series last night doesn't define Ventura or the White Sox team this year. We will know at the end. Danks actually has been pitching well lately... sure hope it lasts.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 13, 2015 -> 09:13 AM) The Angels had two runners thrown out on the bases last night for starters. Are you talking about Connor out on the line drive? That's the only play I can remember.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 13, 2015 -> 09:03 AM) The Red Sox were actually going to try him at 3B. I am not aiming this next statement at the post I responded to, but it truly amazes me how some actually think Robin needs to tell Abreu his stepping on the bag eliminates the force and lets the runner score. Does he have to tell him every day? Does he have to remind the infielders on a grounder they should throw to first base? Where does this end? When your kids screw up, do you discipline them, or do you discipline yourself for something that apparently was your failure? I really don't know how much major league managers and coaching staffs go over situational baseball. If Ventura assumed Abreu knows what to do in that situation - then that's bad coaching. If they have gone over it and Abreu messed it up.. then Abreu takes more of the fault. As far as the parent analogy goes. If my kids are constantly screwing up - it very well could be my fault for not knowing how to guide them - but yes sometimes there isn't much any parent can do. However when you see a team make so many fundamental mistakes it's not unreasonable to see the fault in the coaches. That's completely reasonable. It MAY not be their fault but to infer it is their fault is not fanatical.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 13, 2015 -> 09:03 AM) The Red Sox were actually going to try him at 3B. Abreu has 6 errors which puts him among the leaders in that category. However Abreu has made a ton of good plays at 1b, and he makes a lot of good throws. He isn't great but he isn't terrible either. Frank Thomas was terrible... but no one cared because back then no one cared about Fangraphs and WAR.

I can see it both ways. Melky doesn't bother me. But I do understand Kal's point and I agree in a way... It's annoying when certain players have to make a spectacle EVERY time they make a play. I don't really see the White Sox doing that however.

QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Aug 12, 2015 -> 11:20 PM) Abreu is a terrible fielder. Actually he isn't.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 13, 2015 -> 08:07 AM) Watching this game, it was actually the Angels who made a lot more mistakes than the White Sox, even with the legendary Mike Scioscia on the bench. They looked nothing like a first place team, not only in that game, but in that series. I don't really remember any could you name a few? Not saying you are wrong.

Avi love's those low breaking balls...

QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 12, 2015 -> 10:18 PM) Said in the game thread, but no way you can blame the coaches for Abreu's blunder. So when players make tactical mistakes you can't blame the coaching staff? Say what?

QUOTE (Knackattack @ Aug 12, 2015 -> 10:06 PM) This isn't on Robertson. He made the pitch, the D just effed it up. A lot of it was on Robertson. The 1-2 pitch he threw was a meatball over the plate.

1. yet another dumb fundamental play by a white sox player... happens over and over. 2. Pitching to murphy. The incompetence is pretty amazing. Now IF they work on that in practice and Abreu screwed it up... However how many times do we see these dumb mistakes?

Wow I don't get that strategy at all... If Eaton was facing a right hander is one thing... but not bunting was just horrible.

QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 11, 2015 -> 08:38 PM) Love his discipline so far. Haven't noticed much discipline from him... swings a lot- but I didn't see this at bat.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 11, 2015 -> 11:53 AM) At the time of those trades and signings, Saladino was a minor leaguer coming off surgery. He wasn't even on the team to begin the season. It doesn't appear in any way, shape, or form the White Sox were counting on him immediately. The judgement they passed was he wasn't ready to contribute. But don't let facts ever get in the way of your whining. Yeah..they are giving the kid a shot... and I see some potential there for sure. 1. He is patient.. he doesn't swing at EVERY pitch... something we need more of. 2. He can play defense.... something we need more of. 3. He has some pop and can drive the ball. That being said.. yeah I don't know. It's too early to know. No one in this organization has him penciled in for good Balta... I really doubt that.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 11, 2015 -> 08:44 AM) If you're going to spend big money and make big trades to fill other positions and make this team competitive right now while giving that rookie/young player a starting spot...you are passing judgment on him. Your team can't afford for him to disappoint if you do that. I don't think anyone is "giving" him a starting spot. How many times do you see young players not make it and get sent down? It happens all the time/over and over... there is nothing close to set in stone about any of these young infielders. Not even sure what you are talking about. We weren't making any big trades this season and we shouldn't have. I'm also not saying we shouldn't sign or trade for a big time 3b... It also doesn't change my initial reasoning which is none of us.. including you or I have seen the guy play enough to make any rational final conclusions about him.

QUOTE (shysocks @ Aug 11, 2015 -> 10:00 AM) I said nothing negative about the product on the field. They're not going to take the suggestions of a random fan seriously, and they shouldn't. I'm sure they have people who read message boards - they've heard it all already anyway. Instead I targeted Hawk, because the announcing booths are something that directly affects fan engagement, an area where the voice of the fan is perhaps the most important. He's gotta go. He gets worse every single day. I really could give a s*** who is announcing. I want to win.

another dumb F****** base running play. Then Melky holding his eye like a 5 year old trying to deflect attention from his stupid play.