VAfan

I agree that Getz may end up at the top eventually. But there are some reasons to leave him 2nd for a while. He's a lefty, so you get righty, lefty, righty, lefty at the top (if you drop Wise/Anderson to 9th). You'd want him to sacrifice in more situations than you would want other #2 options to do so. As a lefty, he'll have a hole to hit on the right side if someone is on base. Little things. If they don't hit Ramirez lead off, then they should consider moving Fields up, with Ramirez 5th or 6th, and Konerko dropped to the bottom of the order. But, ultimately, I don't think the lineup makes all that much difference. They key to the Sox chances, as usual, rests in their starting pitching and bullpen. If we get what we got out of Floyd and Danks again (or better), and Buerhle is his usual solid self, then the season could rest on how well Contreras/Colon pitch. Not sure we need both to shine. If one does, we should win the division because I don't see anyone else having 4 quality starters. Pavano in the 3 hole? I don't get why everyone likes the Indians. Perenial underachievers (looking at their run differential, they always win fewer than they should). I think the Tigers will be back, frankly. Shoring up their D will help their pitching, and their offense will not start so slowly again. It's a wild division, but I see it: Sox Tigers Indians Twins Royals Everyone will be close enough to .500 that it could be anyone's to win.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 4, 2009 -> 08:47 PM) I have much less of a problem with him being the starting CF, or even a platoon CF, than I do with him leading off. If Anderson and Wise are hitting 9th as a platoon to start the season, I'm dramatically less angry about Wise playing that day. I agree with this. I also think it's insane not to give Ramirez far more ABs than he will get if Ozzie hits him 8th. Ramirez had the 4th highest OPS, 4th highest slugging percentage, and second highest batting average on the team. He was ahead of Paul Konerko in all 3 categories. Konerko should drop down in the lineup, not Ramirez. If you aren't going to hit Ramirez first or second, then he should hit 5th or 6th, next to Dye. I'd tend to go with this kind of lineup R SS Ramirez L 2B Getz R LF Quentin L DH Thome R RF Dye L C Pierzynski R 1B Konerko R 3B Fields R/L CF Anderson/Wise (with Anderson getting more play b/c of his defense) I'd make Konerko earn his way back up the lineup, and at most I'd flip him with AJ. But if Fields hit better than Paulie, I might move Fields up to 6th and drop Konerko to 8th. Sure, Ramirez is not ideal at the top b/c he doesn't walk and his .317 OBP isn't good. But it's still way better than Anderson/Wise. It still gives you the speed at the top. And I think Ramirez still has tremendous upside. He was hitting above .300 until he tailed off late. Plus, having Ramirez hit leadoff is going to give you a consistent player at the top. Someone in the lineup every day.

All these names for second base, and no mention of ... BRIAN ROBERTS ????????? He's at least worth being in the discussion. Solves the leadoff problem. Gives us a true base stealer. Better defensively at second than Ramirez. He's perfect, really. The issues are 1) availability, and 2) cost. Maybe those couldn't be solved. But this option should at least be considered.

Well, the vent thread has 99 entries at the moment, while this one has a dozen. Guess that sums up where fans who write on Sox talk are at the moment. Is there a bright spot? If so, where would it be? The only thing I can come up with is our pitching staff. Mark Buerhle and Gavin Floyd starting the next two games. Those two guys could win us this series, and do everything but finish off the Twins. I wouldn't give up yet.

Win tonight. Worry about tomorrow tomorrow. Jenks has thrown 57.1 innings in 54 games. There is no way we could overuse him at this point in the season. Thornton has gone 70 games and 64 innings. He has that easy delivery on his heater. I don't think he's tired. His September ERA is 2.0. Win tonight. Whatever it takes.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Sep 23, 2008 -> 04:25 PM) Realistically, who do you want to have cover that many innings, assuming we're tied or down just 1-2 runs and don't end up using Jenks in the 8th or 9th? Do you want to burn through Thornton/Dotel/Linebrink. Can we just stick someone like Clayton Richard out there in relief and bring him into the game in a high-pressure situation (over Ramirez/Logan)? MacDougal? Carrasco, with the way he's pitched recently? I agree with not messing with Logan, Wasserman or Ramirez...and Adam Russell seems to have fallen into a BA/Sean Tracey black hole. Is Russell injured. At one point this season, I thought he had a minimal chance to replace Jenks someday, if we decided to dump salary. Blowing through our best relievers, I guess, is like this whole three day's rest thing. The season is still a marathon, not a sprint. Conceivably, the relievers might need to be available 7 days in a row, worst-case scenario. I keep pointing at tomorrow's game as the real pressure-cooker for Ozzie and the boys...Sox lose those first two games and the monkey is off the Twins' back and the Twins would in all likelihood sweep right through us and into the playoffs. I'd be willing to blow the whole bullpen to win tonight's game. It's that important. It takes a Twins sweep off the table. Keeps open the possibility of ending the division race in Minnesota. And cuts our magic number to 3 with 6 games to play. Plus, who knows if we'll need a bullpen Wednesday night? We've hit their starter hard.

QUOTE (BlackBetsy @ Sep 23, 2008 -> 04:17 PM) I agree with this. If the Sox are up say 4-0 after 5 innings, only let Javy pitch until he lets a runner on base. Then Thornton for up to 2 innings and Jenks for up to 2 innings. No one other than Thornton or Jenks pitches to Mauer / Morneau. This game is that important. If the Sox win this one, it gets them 90% of the way towards winning the division. The game that comes to mind this year is the Rays game on August 23rd, where Javy was blowing them away. Perfect game into the 6th. He gives up a run. But appears to settle by retiring them in the 7th. But with a 3-1 lead, Ozzie lets him start the 8th, where he immediately loads the bases with no outs. Two singles and a walk. It's too late at that point. The bullpen falters and lets 4 runs score. Now, that's not a perfect match, because Javy survived the 6th with the lead. But it's close because Ozzie waited far too long to yank him in the 8th. I wouldn't have even started him that inning. But I certainly would have yanked him as soon as the first guy got on. I wouldn't yank Javy before 5 full tonight. But I'd sure as heck get him out of there before the tying run ever got to the on-deck circle after that.

My addition to this thread is that Ozzie has to do his part too. And that means pulling Javy, as early as the 6th inning, if the game is tight. Two years ago we watched as Javy blew, by my memory, something like 11 leads in the 6th inning. It was unbelievable. The last game he won on the year was against Yankees, I believe. And he only won that game because Ozzie yanked him after 5. So, I only put the first 5 innings on Javy in tonight's game. After that, I consider Ozzie to have been forewarned. (Javy should be better, but it's just wishful thinking trying to make him into something he's not at this point.) Granted, our bullpen would be stretched to cover 4 innings, but it still might give us a better chance.

QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Jul 20, 2008 -> 11:03 PM) So the twins are going to keep playing .700+ baseball for the rest of the season? And Liriano, the same 0-3 11+ERA Liriano, is going to come up and be an ace instantly? Danks gave up 7 runs in his second start of the season, he's sucked pretty hard since then right? The twins lost 1-0 today, by the logic most people show here, their season is over, the team is dead. For everyone who declares the season/team/franchise over after every loss: stop watching games now and really any sports in general, whats the point? I think I read that Liriano hasn't give up a run in his last three starts. He's blowing them away in AAA. Don't think for a second he's not back on track. They are only waiting on him because the guys they have are doing great, and by keeping him in AAA another month they keep him out of arbitration next season. My only hope for this team is that they have defied my expectations the entire year. Just when I think they totally suck, they catch fire. When I think they could be a World Series contender, then they tend to go into a funk. Right now, I think they suck. They'll be lucky to finish above .500.

I see little hope of us staying ahead of the Twins in the second half. Anyone noticed that our pitching sucks? 5, 9, and 8 runs at home to the Royals? How many games in a row is it giving up 5+ runs now? The Twins' pitching has righted itself, and they have Liriano sitting in AAA ready to go. Plus, the Twins offense is perfect for their park, and we have 7 more games there, with none against them here. Then there is our own hot and cold offense. We just aren't consistent enough. I think we have to hope for Boston and the Rays to keep losing so the wild card is an option.

News on the Duke: April 26, 2008 Removed from 15-day DL April 08, 2008 Placed on 15-day DL (Strained right biceps) October 08, 2007 Removed from 60-day DL July 12, 2007 Transferred to 60-day DL May 30, 2007 Recalled from minors rehab May 28, 2007 Sent to minors for rehabilitation May 22, 2007 Placed on 15-day DL (Right hip surgery - out for season) June 23, 2006 Recalled from minors rehab June 23, 2006 Removed from 15-day DL June 19, 2006 Sent to minors for rehabilitation May 13, 2006 Placed on 15-day DL (Right elbow tendinitis) Sure, he'd be an upgrade, but for how long?

What was worse about Ozzie's move is that he brought in Boone Logan, who couldn't get anyone out the night before. Plus, if he's trying to rest his bullpen, why not extend Masset, who's only pitched 40 innings?

I can't believe Ozzie claiming in the Trib today that "Anybody who pitched in this big-league game should be embarrassed," manager Ozzie Guillen said in a calm tone." The fact is that one pitcher did quite well. Nick Masset. He entered in the 5th after Jose had put the first two runners on. He retired the next three hitters without letting anyone score, then pitched a perfect 6th inning. He had used only 20 pitches. Yet, for some bizarre reason, Ozzie Guillen replaced him with pitchers who proceeded to squander the game. That, to me, shows that Ozzie deserves the most blame for yesterday's loss. Sure, Konerko sucked big time. 0-for-6, 9 runners left on. Swung at ball 4, then let strike 3 go by at the end. Truly pathetic. But you could at least argue that he wasn't in control of the situation, whereas Ozzie was. Nick Masset can only go 20 pitches the day before a 4-day break? What kind of nonsense is that? He'd let DJ Carrasco pitch 5-1/3 at Texas just two nights before. Why not let Masset pitch until the Rangers hit him hard, which they never did. What the hell use is a "long reliever" if you only use him for a 2-inning max?

What the hell was that??? I suppose you could look on the good side and say that the team battled. But Ozzie failed to put us in a position to win by totally mismanaging the pitching staff. We had one pitcher who was good today -- Nick Masset -- and Ozzie used him for only two innings. He should have pitched 5-6 innings. And then that hitting. 22 hits and it looks like we can't do anything to bring a runner in from third, or move them over, or do anything right. Konerko -- the day after going 4 for 4, goes 0 for 6 and leaves 9 men on base. In his last AB, swings at ball 4, then looks at strike 3. It looks like we're going to be in some serious trouble in the second half.

As bad as the hitting has been in this game, this game is being lost by Ozzie's poor management of his pitching staff. If you had gotten Contreras out before he gave up the lead in the third and brought Masset in, and then left him in for more than two innings, we should be ahead in this game. Carrasco gave us 5+ innings the other day. No reason with the break coming up that Masset couldn't have done the same.

What a maddening game. Contreras should have been yanked after the second, with Masset in. Masset should have been left in for more than 2 innings. Why not use him for 4-5? And all the men left on third, and DP balls! AARRGGHH.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 11, 2008 -> 03:13 PM) I don't know about that. I like what Wise has done. I like Anderson. Not a big Swish fan yet. Let Paulie play and if he finishes the year like this, I guess dump him for peanuts in the offseason. If he gets hot, we'll be that much better off. If PK finishes the year like this, we're stuck with his contract. We'll have to eat his contract, or eat his poor performance. Neither is a good choice. "Let Paulie play" might be a decent choice if we weren't in a tight division race. Are you willing to "bet the season" that he'll come out of it?

QUOTE (lostfan @ Jul 11, 2008 -> 03:15 PM) I may sound like hater but I still think Wise is playing WAY over his head, and he isn't this good. I think Wise is playing over his head too. But he's hot at the moment, and, as a platoon player, he's not going to get nearly the ABs we are wasting on PK. Plus, if he starts to suck, then Anderson can play more. In the meantime, he plays good D and gives us some much-needed speed.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 11, 2008 -> 03:09 PM) That's what I'm saying as well. If you are going to blast Konerko with legions of stats, at least accept Dick's assertion that Swish has been s*** except for June. In my Konerko post above, I pointed out that the problem with Konerko would be lessened if guys like Cabrera, Thome, and Swisher were hitting at career norms. So I agree with this. But at least all three of these guys have picked it up from their horrible starts. Konerko has shown no signs of picking it up. Plus, it's not just his hitting that's bad. As the slowest guy in baseball, he turns our already slow team into molasses on the basepaths. That's certainly costing us runs. And what broke the original poster's back was an error in the field by Konerko, coupled by weaker outfield D with Swish there instead of Anderson or Wise. All of these factors, plus PK's big contract, focus legitimate vitriol at our team captain.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 11, 2008 -> 03:00 PM) OK, how about Cabrera in April? How about Swisher every month except June? Konerko has not been healthy all year. He supposedly is right now. It will take a little bit to get into the swing of things. The team is in first place. This thread is sad. What will be sad is to lose games because Paul Konerko is dead weight in the lower middle of the order. I think the comparison I made above to Richie Sexson's numbers is startling. If that's due to Konerko being unhealthy rather than a rapid decline in his skill levels, then put him on the DL. Don't continue to make excuses for his Sexson-like performance in the hopes that he miraculously pulls out of it. This team is more balanced and far better defensively with Anderson/Wise in CF and Swisher at 1B. I'd much rather have that lineup than one with PK striking out 4 times in a game against the KC Royals' pitching. At the end of the season, a marginal difference of 2-3 games we lost but should have won could be enough to keep us out of the playoffs. You can't get those losses back once you've had them.

QUOTE (shipps @ Jul 11, 2008 -> 12:11 PM) For the record I just wanna say that Iam not saying the Sox should trade Konerko.But this mentality going around this team of totally dismissing bad performance because what they did two and three years ago drives me crazy.There should be some type of consequence for not doing your job,maybe you should sit for a game or a week.Put the players in that are going to get it done that day and stop nurturing their fragile egos. Yes, yes, I completely agree with this. And a big part of the problem is that Ozzie seems to reward certain players with playing time, rather than rewarding those who make the right plays. Here's a little comparison for the Konerko defenders: 2008 65 239 27 51 9 1 8 31 35 47 1 0 .213 .319 .360 .679 2008 74 252 27 55 8 0 11 30 37 76 1 0 .218 .315 .381 .696 Guess which one is Konerko's line and which one is the just-released line of Richie Sexson? HINT: The released guy has the better stats!

I posted that we needed to be done with PK two months ago. After seeing an Anderson/Wise platoon in CF work while PK was on the DL, that solution became even more obvious. The problem is, PK isn't Richie Sexson in the last year of a bad deal. He's got years left. The Sox are not going to eat multiple years of poor performance. They are going to hold out in hopes of a "rebound." But no other team would likely take Konerko, even if we chipped in a couple million/year on his contract, for the balance of his deal, even if they gave us only a bag of balls in return. Konerko is an albatross around the Sox' neck. Ozzie could "solve" this problem by simply benching Konerko, but that's not going to happen either. I wish they had just DL'ed him because of the hand problem. Then, at least he'd have the time to fix his ailments and come back as strong as he can be. But, given as we're stuck with him, I hope Paulie wakes up and finds his stroke. Plus, I hope Swisher, Thome, Cabrera, and others also return to career averages. Because if these guys were carrying their normal loads, the problem of Konerko would be more manageable.

I'd say after that performance, Dotel has settled the issue. 3 Ks in the 9th. 9 strikes, 1 ball. Nice job.

I think it's quite obvious that neither Contreras nor Vazquez deserve to be in our postseason rotation the way they are pitching lately. Both seem to spot the other team multiple runs right off the bat.

I'd offer Konerko for Teixeira as a way to dump Paulie's contract. I see Konerko continuing to decline, and we already have Swisher as a first base replacement. This team played fine when Konerko was on the DL. It became faster, and still had more than enough power, since everyone in the lineup can hit double digit HRs. Would the Braves take that deal to have stability at 1B? Probably not. Not even if we offered to cover say $2 million/year of Konerko's deal. There's no way I'd give the Braves any prospects of ours that will be good major league players.