VAfan

Now's also the time for the Sox to sign up Crede, Garland, and Pierzynski for another 3 years. Crede, with Scott Boras as his agent, could be difficult to deal with if we wait until he has a breakout year to sign. He's clearly had breakout months. He's proven his postseason worth. But he has health issues and consistency issues that keep his value suppressed. Now's the time to lock him up for at least the next 3 years to a reasonable contract, with an option for a 4th year if he's agreeable. I can see Crede hitting: 35 HRs, with a .280 avg. at some point. He exceeds those numbers during several months of the season, but can't sustain it. Once he starts to sustain it, he's going to be one of the best 3Bs in baseball. Garland should also be kept for another 3 years. We're going to have to deal with Contreras, Buehrle, and Garcia in coming years. Now's the time to lock up Garland so we don't have to worry about him too next year. AJ Pierzynski may have been the Sox' MVP. Without him, does anyone think Garland would have come around so well? What role did he have in the improvements of Cotts or Politte? He calls a tremendous game, he's a lefty with some pop, and he's got a killer attitude. With no other catchers anywhere on the horizon, we need to lock him up too.

I posted this on the 700-post Thome trade thread, but think it is worth a discussion on its own. My initial reaction on seeing Thome for Rowand in my morning paper here in N. Va. was oh no. But then I read that the Sox were getting $22 million toward's Thome's contract, and my reaction changed. Here's what I would do with that $22 million if I were Kenny Williams. SIGN BRIAN GILES Face it, Brian Anderson and his 12 K's in 34 ABs is not ready to replace Aaron Rowand in CF. And Chris Young, the likely long term answer, is probably not ready for 2006. Jerry Owens? Intriguing, but you can't count on him being ready either. (Please don't add light hitting Juan Pierre. We have a clone of Pierre already in Willie Harris.) The best move for the Sox would be to go after Giles. This would allow us to bring up one of the kids (to replace Timo Perez) and give them some time in the outfield without having to count on them at all during the season if they aren't ready. Podsednik or Giles in CF is a big defensive dropoff from Aaron Rowand, but the offense from Giles should more than counterbalance that. And if one of the kids is ready, then Giles can rotate between all the outfield slots and DH. Moreover, if you add Giles for about $25 million over 3 years, you could also bring back Frank Thomas with an incentive-laden deal to be the primary DH. The cost of both of them would likely be less than what PK is going to get from someone. This would be the Sox lineup (or you could flip Thome and Giles): Pods - CF/LF Iguchi - 2B Giles - CF/LF/RF Thomas - DH Thome - 1B Dye - RF Crede - 3B (due for a breakout year, Sox need to sign him now for 3 years) Pierzynski - C Uribe - SS Not only would we have the best pitching in the AL, but if this lineup could stay healthy, we'd be able to hit and slug with anyone. Giles, Thomas, and Thome each are capable of .400 OBP and .500+ slugging. And Giles has as many steals as Rowand has had, so we're not really losing much speed (sure Thomas is slower than Everett). Plus, for the first time in a long time the Sox would have two left handed high OBP, high slugging hitters. (And Giles would not be a roadblock to bringing up the kids. After Dye's contract expires, you could slide Giles to RF and move Young into CF. Frankly, I don't think Brian Anderson is ever going to be better than a 4th or 5th outfielder.) I say, GO FOR IT. GO SOX!! BACK TO BACK!!!

After almost 700 posts on this, I'm going to add my two cents. My initial reaction on seeing Thome for Rowand in my morning paper here in N. Va. was oh no. But then I read that the Sox were getting $22 million toward's Thome's contract, and my reaction changed. Here's what I would do with that $22 million if I were Kenny Williams. SIGN BRIAN GILES Face it, Brian Anderson and his 12 K's in 34 ABs is not ready to replace Aaron Rowand in CF. And Chris Young is probably not ready for 2006. Jerry Owens? Intriguing, but you can't count on him being ready either. The best move for the Sox would be to go after Giles. This would allow us to bring up one of the kids and give them some time in the outfield without having to count on them at all during the season if they aren't ready. Podsednik or Giles in CF is a big defensive dropoff from Aaron Rowand, but the offense from Giles should more than counterbalance that. And if one of the kids is ready, then Giles can rotate between all the outfield slots and DH. Moreover, if you add Giles for about $25 million over 3 years, you could also bring back Frank Thomas with an incentive-laden deal. This would be the Sox lineup: Pods - CF/LF Iguchi - 2B Giles - CF/LF Thomas - DH Thome - 1B Dye - RF Crede - 3B (due for a breakout year, Sox need to sign him now for 3 years) Pierzynski - C Uribe - SS Not only would we have the best pitching in the AL, but if this lineup could stay healthy, we'd be able to slug with anyone. Giles, Thomas, and Thome each are capable of .400 OBP and .500+ slugging. And Giles has as many steals as Rowand has had, so we're not really losing much speed (sure Thomas is slower than Everett). Plus, for the first time in a long time the Sox would have two left handed high OBP, high slugging hitters. I say, GO FOR IT. GO SOX!! BACK TO BACK!!!

QUOTE(JimH @ Nov 19, 2005 -> 03:06 AM) Good Lord man, put the Giles drum away. You have only mentioned this about 100 times already, he is gonna cost a 3 year deal at probably $25 million minimum. Meaning, not modestly priced. Three years at $25 million is very modestly priced for a #3, #4, or #5 hitter who can play all three outfield positions and whose power numbers the last two years are suppressed by playing in San Diego. Giles would be our best outfielder, and possibly our best hitter depending on whether Frank Thomas is back. He had more runs created than Paul Konerko last year (116 v. 114) even though he played half his games in San Diego, where his offensive production was suppressed. He had a better RC27 number too (7.68 v. 7.27). Indeed, Giles ranked 13th and 12th in baseball in these categories, yet he posted only a modest .795 OPS at home versus 1.008 on the road. In the Cell, he might not return to his 4-year stretch of 35+ HRs, but I bet he'd get back to 30 HRs, without losing his ability to get on base. I'm really tired of you writing these BS responses to my posts when you don't do your baseball homework. This is the list of guys with better RC27 numbers than Giles last year. Derrek Lee, Alex Rodriguez, Albert Pujols, Todd Helton, Jason Giambi, Travis Hafner, David Ortiz, Jason Bay, Carlos Delgado, Vladimir Guerrero, Manny Ramirez. Do you think you could get any of those guys for 3-years $25 million if they were free agents?

QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Nov 14, 2005 -> 05:25 PM) How exactly does $12-$18 mil combined savings over 3 years allow you to resign Jon and A.J.? That's probably enough for one or the other, definitely not both. Considering the market for starting pitching, that might not even be enough for Garland. I find the whole argument somewhat pointless because the chances of the Sox getting either player are slim and none in my opinion. Both are very expensive players that play in the outfield, which is probably the deepest position in the organization right now. Does it really make sense to commit over $30 mil and 3 years to two guys well past 30 (Abreu will be for the life of the deal) when we have several young guys that could come up and contribute soon, plus all of our current starters signed at affordable prices for the next year? Does it really make sense to pay that much for a DH? I'd rather see us go for more affordable guys at DH that can also play 1B at times, something we might need in the near future. Frank and Durazo make the most sense among FA's, and trading for Delgado, Thome, or Helton makes more sense if we're going to give up talent and eat some money. All of them are probably bigger impact hitters when healthy than Giles or Abreu, especially if fielding isn't an issue. The $12-18 million is more than enough because you have to include what they made last year as a baseline figure. As for who we should have as a DH, last year it was Carl Everett, who played the outfield when he played at all. That was important. None of our young outfielders are ready to play any significant time, and I would send Anderson back to AAA for more seasoning. He struck out 12 times in 34 trips to the plate. That's worse than Timo Perez, who should definitely not be back. My choice to replace Everett's slot would be a left-handed hitting outfielder who has a high on-base percentage, good power, does not clog up the basepaths, and can play all three outfield positions. He would give us complete insurance if Pods, Rowand, or Dye went down, and allow Ozzie to rest all three. And for the longer term, remember that Dye is only signed for 2006, and I don't think Pods is going to have a long career when it doesn't seem like he can keep his wheels sharp for even an entire season. Brian Giles would be modestly priced, but would fit the Sox perfectly.

QUOTE(beck72 @ Nov 13, 2005 -> 11:38 PM) What you're saying is it's ok to add a big salary like Giles but not Abreu? [though Giles should get a 3 yr $30 mill deal. Abreu would be locked up for 2 yrs at $28 mill. so it's a wash cash wise. But signing a 34 yr old to a 3 yr deal like Giles more than goes against your point that adding Abreu would hurt the sox. Bobby for two yrs would probably be more productive than a guy in his mid 30's playing for 3 yrs] It's basically a matter of preference. CAses could be made for either. But the sox could add abreu or Giles and it wouldn't effect the sox ability to keep Crede, Jon ,or AJ. Abreu costs $48 million for 3 years. Giles couldn't cost more than $30 million for three years, and would probably cost closer to $27 million. How does that become a wash, cash wise??? For that "wash" I can sign Jon Garland for 2 extra years, plus pay him what he's worth this coming year. I can also lock up AJ Pierzynski for 3 years. And I might still have money left over to sign Joe Crede for a few years. Plus, I would have given up no current players to add Giles. I don't see why you think it is harder to sign a Free Agent than to trade for a player. Do you have any idea what the Phillies would demand for Abreu? Giles is ready to sign at any time. He says he wants to play for a contender. We've never been able to sell World Series Champions to any free agents before. And with our pitching, you have to like our chances to repeat.

QUOTE(beck72 @ Nov 12, 2005 -> 09:59 PM) In 6 of the last 8 yrs Abreu's OPS was over .900 [and was pretty close those other two]. So that's not really fair What he brings [high OBP, power, speed ,avg, a #3 hitter] the sox could use. And the pieces it would take to get him wouldn't effect the short or long term ability for the sox to win $30 million for two years, or $48 million for 3 years. Bobby Abreu isn't anywhere close to being worth that. Wake up Sox fans. How did we win this year? By jettisoning the overpriced guys and filling the roster holes with solid players. Now you want to go back to sinking the roster with guys who make way too much money for what they bring to the table? Sure, Giles is not as good as Abreu straight up. But that isn't the proper comparison. First, Giles is a Free Agent, so we don't have to give anyone up to sign him. Second, Giles would come for at least $10 million less over two years than Abreu. So here's the comparison. Giles, Jon Garland, AJ Pierzynski, Joe Crede, Aaron Rowand + Marte >>>>>>>>>>>>> Bobby Abreu It would take at LEAST Rowand and Marte to get Abreu in trade. For the $12 million you save between Giles and Abreu, I can take that money, add it to current salaries, and re-sign Jon Garland for two years, plus pay for AJ Pierzynski's and Joe Crede's salary increases. Last year, it wasn't Lee for Pods and Vizcaino. It was Lee for Pods, Vizcaino, El Duque, and Pierzynski.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Nov 12, 2005 -> 09:35 PM) Bobby Abreu is a great baseball player. He is as many would call a "five tool player". Imagine a better Magglio Ordonez, Abreu is better defensively than him + a better arm. Bobby has a little less consistent power than Ordonez but makes up with for it with great SB numbers. He consistently puts up 30sb/25hr/100rbi/.300/.400/.500/.900 '06 - $13M '07 - $15M '08 - $16Mteam $2Mbuyout. How is this too much for a player of his caliber? Take a look at his numbers, his contact is not too expensive. Money could also come over from Philly with him if the right players were sent to the Phillies for him. Delgado is due similar money over the next few seasons as Abreu. It really depends o what you want, if Ozzie really wants more speed, he could get 30SB out of the 3 hole with Abreu. Delgado does not bring you any speed. As I said to Rowand44, if you want Abreu's numbers, why not sign Free Agent Brian Giles, who has actually had years when he hit more then 35 HRs, and who is obviously hampered playing in SD (look at his home and away splits last year - he's still above a 1.0 OPS on the road). Giles was offered $21 million over 3 years by SD. I'm sure he won't take it, but I'm also pretty confident that he could be had for $8-9 million/year over 3 years. Then you get a high-OBP left handed outfielder who can play all 3 outfield positions, but you don't have to give up any productive players in return. All while saving more than $10 million over the next two years. What will that $10 million buy you? An extension for Jon Garland at least, plus the increased salary for AJ Pierzynski and Joe Crede. Think with your brains. I'd take Abreu if he were a free agent for $10-12 million a year. In a trade, he's not worth that much.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Nov 12, 2005 -> 07:57 PM) Lets see, he's a 25 homer/100 rbi/.400 obp/30 steal guy, he's that left handed bat all of us have wanted for a while and he plays a solid right field. He would be such a perfect 3 hitter....I would absolutely love to have Bobby on this team. He's just not worth $15 million/year. Hell, his OPS wasn't even .900 last year. For my money, I'd sign Brian Giles, who you could get for $8-9 million/year. He's not as young as Abreu, but he can play all 3 outfield positions and hits just about as well as Abreu. Plus, you don't have to give up any players to get him.

Why all the love for Abreu? He's a very good ballplayer, but he's way overpriced. $29 million over the next two years, plus a $2 million buyout (instead of another $16 million in 2008). That's obscene. If Abreu were a free agent, this would be too much money. To take it on and still give them a quality player like Aaron Rowand plus a pitcher makes it worse. For $10-12 million/year as a free agent, Abreu would be a very nice fit for the Sox. He could take Everett's slot and be a very big upgrade. I'm sure Ozzie and he would get along very well. All of this also applies to Carlos Delgado who hits better than Abreu but is due $44 million over the next 3 years.

We are planning to meet at Buffalo Billiards in DC (19th St. just below DuPont Circle) for tonight's game. It may be hard to top our Saturday gathering, which was attended by about 40 Sox fans, but it should be great fun. Reply if you think you might come.

Aaron was probably looking at the ball more than at Burke. They didn't do a split screen, but if they had, I bet that it was precisely when Rowand was retreating to tag that Burke looked helpless out there. Looked like a completely bonehead play, however, until they had the mike on Aaron and he explained why he did what he did to Ozzie. In a 1-0 game, getting into scoring position on a fly ball out to left field could be a huge play. And, as he said, because the ball was hit so high, he thought it would either be caught or be a HR.

QUOTE(frahungski @ Oct 20, 2005 -> 03:41 PM) is this a bar? it would be neat to join you guys, but i'm not 21. Yes, I just checked.

Don't the Stro's fail to score for Roger? I'd love a 1-0 Sox win in the opener, just like we started the season, and just like we started the second half.

No Soxtalk Sox fans in DC?? So far we've lined up between 15-20 Sox fans for Buffalo Billiards on Saturday night. Reply to this if you can come, and say how many are coming. Thanks.

QUOTE(BlackBetsy @ Oct 19, 2005 -> 05:58 PM) I'd rather face Houston-- Runs Allowed: Houston 609, St. Louis 639 Runs Scored: Houston 693, St. Louis 805 Houston just isn't the offensive team that St. Louis is, and the Cardinals' pitching isn't that much worse. Even more importantly: Carpenter vs. CHW - 7-1, 1.97 ERA (and that's when he was just OK with Toronto) Mulder vs. CHW - 5-1, 2.47 ERA Clemens vs. CHW - 17-8, 3.35 ERA (higher than his career ERA), 3.94 ERA at the Cell Pettite vs. CHW - 10-7, 4.30 ERA (higher than his career ERA), 3-6 with 6.33 ERA at the Cell. GO ASTROS When I see Barbara and George Bush behind home plate at Minute Maid, I want the Astros to lose big time. But when you look at postseason ERA, Carpenter, Mulder, and Morris are better than Oswalt, Clemens, and Pettitte. And I think Clemens and Pettitte are seriously overrated as postseason pitchers. Pettitte's career postseason ERA is 4.05, with 250+ baserunners in under 190 innings. Clemens career postseason ERA of 3.54 is half a run worse than his career as a whole. And both of them have ERA's in the mid-4's this postseason. I also agree with the point about Yadier Molina. We're probably better off against a team we can run on. And Lidge is useless if the Astros don't have a late lead. We're a front running team, and I see no reason why we couldn't continue that in the World Series. So, on paper, the Astros are pretty clearly the weaker opponent, but the beauty of it is that they are perceived as the stronger opponent. And wouldn't it be nice to kick some Republican Texas booty!!

If you are a Washington DC area Sox fan, we are planning to meet up on Saturday night for Game 1 at Buffalo Billiards near DuPont Circle. http://www.buffalobilliards.com/dc/bbdclocation.html If you are planning to come, just reply to this post. GO WHITE SOX!!

I guess I'm in the minority here, but I'm all for new White Sox fans coming aboard. They aren't going to water down my elation a bit when the White Sox reach the World Series and win it. Now I don't live in Chicago anymore, and don't have to fight for ALCS tickets (though I did buy some unused ones on line back in 2000), so I don't have to put up with any inconveniences that bandwagon fans might cause. But I think it would be tremendous if the whole City of Chicago came out in support of the White Sox. GO SOX!!!

Any chance we'll pound Boston pitching so hard that closing will be a moot point this series? Wouldn't that be nice. If Hermanson were healthier and had shown his stuff with some recent appearances, he'd be the obvious choice over Jenks, who may be nervous since the BoSox got to him twice this year. (They got to Hermy too.) But I think Jenks's confidence has taken a turn for the better since he closed out the clinching game in Detroit despite the tying run getting on with no outs on a Crede error. Since then he's been snapping off all his pitches for strikes, and AJ is sure to have him use the offspeed stuff on Ortiz and Ramirez to keep them guessing. However, if for some reason Jenks and Hermanson both seemed ill suited to close late in this series, I wouldn't hesitate to use El Duque to finish off the BoSox. GO WHITE SOX!!

Game 1 is critical for us. If we win, it will be our first playoff home victory since 1959. Let's make this a year of many firsts since .... 1917. GO SOX!

Looking a little deeper into this, yes the slate is wiped clean, but you should learn from what went before. The major concern I would have if I were Ozzie would be closing out the games. Jenks twice got tagged for big innings, and even Hermanson gave up 2 runs closing one of our wins. Vizcaino gave up a game winning homer to Ramirez after Crede dropped a foul pop. And Marte wasn't the answer for Big Papi late. Our best bullpen guys were Cotts and Politte. With Boston's pitching, I expect us to get the lead, possibly in every game. The key is going to be holding that lead.

1. 7/21. Sox lose 6-5 at home. Buehrle can't hold lead v. Clement, but Vizcaino gets loss. http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb...=.jsp&team=home 2. 7/22. Sox win 8-4. 6 run 6th off Wakefield backs strong outing by Garland. http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb...=.jsp&team=home 3. 7/23. Sox lose 3-0. El Duque pitches well, but do nothing with Wade Miller (is he even around anymore?). http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb...=.jsp&team=home 4. 7/24. Sox win 6-4. Contreras bests Arroyo. Bullpen, except Marte, is great. http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb...=.jsp&team=home Note: Marte gives up runs in 2 of 4 games. 5. 8/12. Sox lose 9-8 at Fenway. Wells bests Buehrle. Jenks gets tagged for 3 run homer by Ortiz. Sox 9th inning rally falls a run short. http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb...=.jsp&team=away 6. 8/13. Sox lose 7-4. Garland beaten soundly by Wakefield. Second time around was worse for us and better for them. http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb...=.jsp&team=away 7. 9/3 makeup. Sox win 5-3. McCarthy pitches 7 innings of 3-hit shutout ball. Jenks again gives up 3 ninth inning runs, but this time none are earned. Schilling is the loser. http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb...=.jsp&team=away *********************** Some observations. 1. We need to score at least 4 runs to win. We held them to 3 runs twice, but otherwise they scored 6, 4, 4, 9, and 7. 2. Jenks may be nervous because they hit him; Marte also consistently got hit. I hope Ozzie looks at these box scores and used Cotts, Politte, Hermanson, and El Duque out of the pen, and McCarthy if he makes the team. 3. Buehrle didn't fool them either time. We need Contreras and Garcia to come through.

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Oct 2, 2005 -> 08:17 PM) You can switch guys as long as they are post-season eligible. This answers a question I put up on another post. Sorry, I hadn't seen this. As I think about it, I think BMac is worth keeping in the ALDS because he could help win a game if one of the Fenway games goes long. I don't want Vizcaino to appear in anything but a laugher or for mop up if we get torched. I think he gets way too nervous and then he gets wild. Today, Cleveland hitters helped him out on a couple of occasions.

Win the first home game.

Can the White Sox switch players between the ALDS and ALCS? If so, then I won't be as upset if they don't take McCarthy because he won't be available to pitch in the first two games in Chicago anyway. I would still leave Vizcaino home because McCarthy shut down the Red Sox in Fenway recently, and I'd love to have him available if any of those games went extra innings. But who knows the answer to my question?