VAfan

QUOTE(qwerty @ Jul 7, 2005 -> 04:43 AM) Five or six million dollars a year and it's a deal. If he wants anymore i think it would be time to part with him as sad as it may be. We all know how much of a dick he can be over money so this should be interesting. I think he has to realize his health issues will heavily weigh into the money he recieves. If we could rely on him playing 140 game a year plus it would be a different story, but you just cannot. What? Frank has never been a "dick" over money. JR has though. Frank accepted a diminished services clause in his contract that no other player of his caliber has ever had to accept. The guy has a career OPS number higher than any other player on the Sox has ever accomplished in a single year, and you can add Maggs and Carlos Lee to that crowd if you like. He's the best Sox player in the 100+ history of the franchise, and there really isn't anyone close. While his peers were taking steroids to inflate their stats, Frank never has, and it has cost him dearly. Giambi stole Frank's 3rd MVP award in 2000, and do you know how many players have won 3 MVPs? Give the guy a break. What pleases me about this article is that KW is finally singing Frank's praises. That should mean that JR won't have to intercede to get a deal done. The Sox are bigger than Frank Thomas. But the Sox need Frank Thomas this year to reach the promised land.

Of course it was nice to see Jose get back on track tonight with a win. "Only" 3 walks and 1 long ball - his two biggest weaknesses. But of course it was against lowly Tampa Bay. Who here thinks that this will start a run of good starts in the second half? Or do you think it is just a blip on his slide to a 5+ ERA? Or something in between?

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jul 7, 2005 -> 04:26 AM) I'm sure Kenny wants to make an impact move if he makes a move at all. We'll see what happens though. That is certainly the truth. I also believe the KW gets impact deals done because he is willing to give other teams more in return.

My hat is off to the Nats, who are now my hometown team. And since I haven't rooted for an NL team in a very long time, I was ready to adopt them. Heck, they have some former Sox players, like Loiaza, Majewski, and Rauch (in the minors). But then I went to their 3rd game with my 2-1/2 year old son and they had the PA system cranked painfully loud. It literally hurt to sit in the upper deck. I left after 3 innings. (The Nats rallied to beat the D-backs. Esteban Loiaza was pitching.) My worst experience, by far, at any major league sporting event. I sent a letter and returned my ticket stubs. No response. A couple months later some Nats people came to the building where I work trying to promote the team. They gave me the name of someone to e-mail. He responded with a weak apology about my "disappointment." (I wasn't disappointed, I was tortured. It really was awful. My son, whenever he sees baseball on the TV, says "too loud.") So I guess I'm pleased that they are beating the mighty Braves, but I'm still having some trouble pulling for them. (They also summarily fired someone I knew who was in their press department because the GM wanted to give the job to his friend.) It also bugs me a bit that they are stealing some attention from the Sox in a year that could be the best ever for a White Sox team. To answer the question then, I believe the Nats have likely been the bigger surprise to this point, but I think the Sox will carry it through to the end. And if the Sox play in or win the World Series this year, then definitely the Sox will have been the biggest surprise in baseball for as long as I've been a fan.

I'm going Friday night with my wife, but we'll be in the upper reserve, section 328. I hope we paste the O's, who are in a free fall. I think they'll fall to their typical 4th place in the AL East. By the way, I was ready to take on the Nats as my only NL team but my first game (their 3rd overall) was my worst-ever experience at a major league sporting event. The PA system was so loud it was painful. I left after 3 innings. I'm told they've turned it down, but I haven't returned. And I'm not crazy about the way they have stolen some of the limelight from the Sox. Even so, it would be refreshing if they were the team to end the Braves run of 12 or 13 NL East titles. Let me know where you guys are meeting up in Baltimore. I can't promise to make it, but I might.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 7, 2005 -> 03:14 AM) Everett's a free agent and almost certainly will not be back next year...Frank for sure is a higher priority. Only way Everett comes back is if KW trades for him mid-season again. Absolutely Frank Thomas has to stay with the Sox. With 11 HRs in 72 ABs, JR cannot let the best hitter ever to play for the team go. You can see Frank is on a mission to reach 500 dingers and beyond, but he's also bought completely into Ozzie-ball. But I also wonder if Everett won't be willing to re-sign for not much money. (Then I noticed that someone said the team has an option. If that's true, I'm guessing we'll exercise it.) He ought to realize this is the only team where he is going to play well. And he's at the point in his career where he's great in the role he's in, but would likely struggle as a full-time player. I actually wonder why Ozzie hasn't tried Everett at first while Gload rehabs.

I couldn't see the game, but when I heard about this guy in the minors I immediately thought he should be listed as untouchable. Now it is great to see him on the team. In a way, you almost wish he was a secret weapon ala Frankie Rodriguez. On the trade thread today I asked whether we should consider trading for steady Eddie (Guardado) and on BBTN, Gammons suggested the Sox were interested in him. If Jenks can control his pitches, now I wonder why make the deal unless Seattle would take Takatsu and Vizcaino for him. Then you could have: Marte, Jenks, Cotts, Politte, Guardado and Hermanson. That's 6 pitchers who each have the stuff to be a closer. Just fantasizing a bit...

If the starting pitching on the market isn't worth the price, or doesn't provide enough likely return on investment, should the Sox consider shoring up the bullpen as a possible alternative? Here's an article on Eddie Guardado. http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/news/tra...ne/index_05.jsp He would protect against any kind of meltdown by Hermanson. He keeps us from having to use Marte, who can be erratic. He can set up or close. And I would think he might have additional value keeping him away from the Red Sox, who will likely be our ALDS opponent. If Boston gets Schilling back and fixes their bullpen, they will be formidable adversaries. I'd be wary of bidding too much for him, and many have said he may have arm troubles. But I'd sure hate to see him in a Boston uniform closing games against us in October.

I don't see the love for Javier Vazquez. He pitched okay in Montreal, but when he moved to the AL, he added more than a run to his ERA, and hasn't taken it off back in Arizona. The only good sign I see in his numbers is that his walks are way down. He started the season getting torched, then he had a nice run of very good games, but recently he's back to getting torched game after game. I also don't see much value in adding a young pitcher like Kip Wells (who someone mentioned) that has no playoff experience. Neither Buehrle nor Garland have any real experience (Buehrle made a short relief stint in 2000), which leaves Garcia as the only healthy starter who has pitched in pressure games. If Schmidt is damaged goods or too expensive, the Sox need to keep looking to add a starting pitcher.

QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Jul 6, 2005 -> 04:54 PM) Lilly has good numbers against the Angels, Red Sox, NYY, Bal, & Cle. He's suspect against Min & Oak but the past two yr's his 2nd half ERA has been mid-high 3's. Like Radke he's a slow starter but really turns it on in the 2nd half. If I had to choose between Lilly and Moyer, I'd pick Moyer at this point. He'd be cheaper to pick up (as you note, Toronto isn't in sell mode), and even though he's well off his 2001-03 levels, he's pitching better than Lilly. But I'd rather the Sox add a starter they could have more confidence would win them a game in the ALDS and another in the ALCS.

QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Jul 6, 2005 -> 04:45 AM) I really don't see Moyer as enough of an improvement over Duque/Contreras to warrant making a trade, and our 5th starter isn't really that important from here on out, especially with Hernandez back shortly after the break. I would disagree about having a reliable 5th starter. If El Duque were to go down again, and Contreras were to continue his recent meltdown, that would put a lot more pressure on Buerhle/Garcia/Garland and might force the team to press and get away from what has propelled us to being 30 games over .500. As good as we have been, we haven't won anything yet, and we don't have that much room for error. I wouldn't be willing to pay a lot for someone like Moyer, but I think if a better pitcher doesn't come along he could be a very positive addition.

QUOTE(PutItOnTheBoard @ Jul 5, 2005 -> 10:42 PM) i love seein him doin that stuff....when a hitter gets it goin to both sides of the field thats when they at their most dangerous...pitchers feel like they can't pitch them anywhere Dye doesn't have the RBIs that Konerko has, but he's moved up to 4th among right fielders in slugging, and his OPS went from .517 in April to .933 in May, to 1.000 in June, to 1.657 in July (so far). I think he was our offensive MVP in June.

QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Jul 6, 2005 -> 01:57 AM) Please no on Moyer. I really don't see him as an upgrade. At least Contreras has good stuff, and El Duque has a good playoff track record. Plus I think even El Duque throws harder than he does. Moyer is basically the stereotypical lefthanded junk baller that teams use as a 4 or 5 starter, only he is a 1 or 2 starter in Seattle. I would agree Moyer is a risk, but a different kind of risk - can he pitch outside Seattle? On the plus side the guy will not get a sore arm like El Duque, and his head is always going to be in the game unlike Contreras. I think KW and Ozzie realize now that McCarthy cannot be the answer this year if El Duque has any more arm troubles, and I don't think they have much faith in Munoz (though he was pitcher of the week) or anyone else at AAA to be an emergency 5th starter. My gut feeling about Moyer is that he will be a better pitcher again if put on a championship team. His last good year was 2003. It was a run of 3 great years for him from 2001-03. In each year Seattle was competitive. When the team dropped off, Moyer nosedived too. I don't see Moyer as a savior that will necessarily put us over the top. But he's a savvy pitcher who might get it together for one last hurrah. He pitched very well in the postseason in 2001, so I see him as potentially better than El Duque and definitely better than Contreras in postseason starts.

QUOTE(Wedge @ Jul 5, 2005 -> 11:03 PM) What leads you to this belief? What leads me to believe the Schmidt deal is not dead is that the parties protested too much when the story broke. I think both sides are still in evaluation mode. The Giants want to keep shopping for a better offer while the Sox still aren't sure Schmidt isn't damaged goods.

If the Schmidt deal is really dead, which I don't for a second believe, then who else might the Sox decide to add before the trade deadline? What about Jamie Moyer? With the Boone release, I think the M's are going to shift into serious sell-off territory very soon, and Moyer is still a marketable commodity. For us he would provide fine insurance against a Contreras/El Duque meltdown in the second half, and he would likely give us a better #4 starter option in the playoffs than either of our Cuban pitchers. Plus, what can he cost? If the Sox ate the rest of his contract, he may be had for a couple of second-tier prospects. I'm not saying he's great, because he hasn't pitched well outside Seattle this year, but I think with the Contreras/El Duque/McCarthy situation, KW will need to do something to shore up the starting pitching before the deadline.

This trade thread has degenerated into oblivion.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jul 5, 2005 -> 03:15 PM) Per ESPN White heat? The problem is that Clemens would have to approve a deal to Chicago, which is unlikely. Second, the Astros don't believe they're out of the NL wild-card race. What does everyone think about this?? I know this may cause a few backlashes, but I would be for it. Because I have said it many times, I think this is the year, and we need to do everything we can to try and win it all this year. Clemens is flat out dominating and could really give us the "real" Ace at the top of the rotation. I have been for this for quite a while, as Clemens, not Burnett, is probably the only guy I'd be willing to trade for as a high-cost rent-a-player. Acquiring him is another matter entirely. Houston will soon pass the Cubs for second in the NL Central and at least dream of making a run for the Wild Card slot. So I don't think any of their guys - Oswalt, Lidge, Clemens, Pettitte, etc. - will be traded at this point. Plus it is unlikely Clemens will want to play for the White Sox, though I don't know if he shares Schilling's dislike for JR. I don't think money would be an obstacle, but Houston's asking price might be. Nonetheless, it's okay to dream. Moving Clemens in at #1 would yield starting pitching matchups where we would have the advantage IN EVERY GAME. That's a pretty good recipe for winning the World Series.

QUOTE(AnthraxFan93 @ Jul 5, 2005 -> 02:02 PM) WHY is people have such a hard-on for Schimdt, when AJ burnett is the best SP for this team? Because Schmidt might be had for Contreras and some insignificant throw ins and can help us this year and next, while Burnett will require major prospects and likely can't be signed for next year, esp. if we are still carrying Contreras's $8 million.

Since the other thread is locked, let me just add here that after last night I don't think we can rely on Contreras to pitch AT ALLl in the postseason. Frankly, if we can't trade him, I'd LEAVE HIM OFF THE POSTSEASON ROSTER. I'd much rather have El Duque and McCarthy and try to get a start out of one of them than have Contreras go into one of his "can't find the strike zone" funks. How hard can it be for a pitcher who has been around as long as he has to throw a strike? Now I can't imagine that SF will take him in a package for Schmidt, or that anyone will take him, for that matter. So we're just going to have to make due. But if a chance comes up and we can skip his turn in the rotation, Ozzie should take it. Contreras needs a break to get his mojo back.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 1, 2005 -> 07:06 PM) Going along with this poster's reasons for why it's not always a good idea to make a trade... A trade can save a team, like the 2004 BoSox, or it can really hurt a team and seriously damage its future, as would have happened if the Marlins or Angels went shopping. I would agree you have to assess each team's strength's and weaknesses and what is available in the market to decide whether a mid-season trade is prudent. I also think you have to look at the longer term. I'd like the Sox to be like the Indians and Twins have been and rule this division for the next 5 years, not just this year. But the extra factor here is 1 pennant in 87 years for the Sox, and the realization that a WS victory could transform this franchise for many years. In that context, the Sox have to consider "going for it." That doesn't mean trading the farm for a rent-a-player, but it does mean taking everything into consideration. I still think swapping out a high-quality starter for Jose Contreras is perhaps the best way for us to ensure we go far in the postseason. Let's say we draw the Angels in round 1 b/c Minny has won the Wild Card. Game 1 is Buerhle v. Colon Game 2 is Garcia v. Washburn Game 3 is Garland v. Lackey Game 4 is Contreras v. Byrd Game 5 is a repeat of game 1. In this scenario, we may have a slight edge in all 4 games, but it is not much of an edge against a team with a stronger offense and playoff experience. But let's say we've survived the Angels by winning in 5 games. Now we get the Red Sox. And let's say the Red Sox beat the Twins in 4 games. Game 1 is Garcia v. Schilling Game 2 is Garland v. Clement Game 3 is Buehrle v. Wells Game 4 is Contreras v. Wakefield Game 5 is a repeat, etc. Here, our only clear edge is Buehrle v. Wells, which does not bode well when the BoSox have the strongest offense in the AL. Having Jason Schmidt instead of Jose Contreras in both series could make an immense difference. Contreras, if he's on, might have the edge against the Angel's or BoSox's 4th starters, but given his inconsistency, I'd rate the games a tossup. But Schmidt, if he pitched the 4th game or slid Garland to 4th, would have the edge over both teams' #3 guys and Garland would have a clear edge over the #4 guy. So at the end of the day, the way I look at it is the addition of a guy like Jason Schmidt means we will be no worse than even matching up Buehrle and Garcia against anyone else's 1-2, but we will gain a clear matchup edge in the 3-4 matchups. That is a formula for winning the World Series. It may not be the only formula, but it is the easiest one to fit into this 2005 White Sox team.

QUOTE(winninguglyin83 @ Jul 1, 2005 -> 07:50 PM) Stanton ain't got much left in the tank, but Kevin Walker doesn't even have a tank. Take a look. Dude has pitched in post-season. He could help. Saw all I needed to see from Walker against Arizona. Why get Stanton for a week until Marte returns? There is no way he'd crack the six guys we have with Marte, and do we think we can store him in AAA as insurance against injury? I say no. Maybe Boston will snap him up and worsen their bullpen woes.

I ran a check of how we have fared against other teams between 2000 and 2004. Here's the link. http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/he...4&submit=Submit For teams we have played more than 10 times, our worst winning percentage is against the A's, where we are 15-30, or .333. Our next worst showing is against Anaheim at 20-24, .455. It is time, if this is going to be a special season, that we turn around this nonsense and start beating this team. They think they are hot, but have only beaten up on Seattle and SF recently.

QUOTE(GreatScott82 @ Jul 1, 2005 -> 06:28 PM) Not True. Mr. Reinsdorf gave KW the okay to add to payroll. With the increase in attendance Reinsdorf lets KW do whats best. I understand payroll can go up THIS YEAR. (I think JR would even take on the rest of Roger Clemens' $18 million if Houston would trade him.) I don't see it going up by $10 million more next year if we traded for a Jason Schmidt or AJ Burnett and kept them, especially when even if it does, we will have to incorporate hefty raises for Jon Garland, figure out what to do with Konerko and Thomas, re-sign Pierzynski, etc. I wrote this before seeing Southsider's post. What I ask you to do is figure in raises for Garland, Crede, what it will take to re-sign Paul Konerko and Frank Thomas, and any other increased costs of retaining current players. How much extra is that going to be? (We should lock Garland up for several years, for example.) Then tell me if you still believe the Sox could add Jason Schmidt's $10.5 million option to that or re-sign AJ Burnett for at least that much given JR's history, when the result might be paying El Duque $4 million for long relief? Since El Duque has no trade value, I just believe the best way to make a deal work is to find a team like the Giants who have something we could use and that might also take Jose Contreras as part of the deal. Such a deal would give the Sox maximum flexibility this year and next.

QUOTE(qwerty @ Jul 1, 2005 -> 06:21 PM) Uribe is one of ozzie's guy i am thinking. Probally wouldn't make him too happy to see him go but i don't know that for sure. Also, we would be plugging in a three year deal for another one while losing 13 years at a primary position that is hard to find really defensive players at. You also have to think uribe has alot s*** load of potential... i know i do anyway. I just don't think vizquel's vizquel puts us over the top and he is not worth uribe. You have to also remember uribe is not old enough for the giants. I actually don't see Uribe's offensive potential. Not the way he stands at the plate. It doesn't strike me as a position from which he can judge the strike zone or do much with a lot of pitches. Hey, if we had the Uribe of 2004, I wouldn't be making this proposal. I have thought of an alternative, but not a player to fill those shoes. Instead of Timo Perez, the Sox need a left-handed utility guy that can play SS and 3B. I like Ozuna, but a lefty could be better.

QUOTE(JimH @ Jul 1, 2005 -> 06:14 PM) Uribe especially. That in large part is why he was given the chance to be the starting SS. Personally I don't think home grown has anything to do with it, they're all professionals. The most insignificant things are important to team chemistry. Herm Schneider. Man Soo Lee. How Guillen gets along with the coaches. How Rowand has helped Crede come out of his shell, and how much the other players get a kick out of that. It is a complex (there's that word again) and unique balance. And KW and Guillen will be very careful about changing it. Adding to it? Yes. Changing it? Hmmm ... Who was the person that posted the article about "Stand Pat" Gillick who couldn't pull the trigger on July trades to help the 116-win Seattle Mariners reach their postseason potential? You also have to remember the Sox have a zero-sum salary structure. They can't really add a Jason Schmidt or AJ Burnett without subtracting enough to carry the new salary. The one add-on guy that I could see acquiring is Roger Clemens, and I'd be willing to give up just prospects to get him, as long as BMac is not among them. To me he's the ultimate rent-a-player. Of course getting Houston to part with him and getting Roger to want to come here are both such long shots that it's a pipe dream. But stranger things have happened.