VAfan

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jul 1, 2005 -> 04:18 PM) VA, I'm not trashing Vizquel, I actually respect Omar a ton, I'm a pretty big fan of the way he plays the game. However Juan is a 25 year old shortstop who has more pop in his bat then Omar and at this point has more range then Vizquel and a much better arm. To answer your question unless a Chavez is available or a player of that capability I leave the offense alone. Crede and Juan who might not be hitting the cover off the ball have been a huge, huge part of this teams success because they suck everything hit to them and make some outstanding plays. That's a fair position to take. As you can see, I've come to the same view with respect to Crede. Chavez isn't going to happen, and Randa doesn't seem to add enough marginal benefit. What I wonder is how Sabean would see the marginal value of Vizquel v. Uribe. If he values Uribe higher because of age and potential, then wouldn't he more likely take Contreras for Schmidt?

QUOTE(JimH @ Jul 1, 2005 -> 04:03 PM) Here's an alternative that makes sense, they aren't going to trade Juan Uribe in order to bring in Omar Vizquel, part of a larger deal or no. I have watched you post this same scenario for the last few days, and am not certain why you're not getting what KW and Guillen have been consistently saying ... they value the chemistry on this team and don't want to screw it up. It is well and good to play fantasy GM and look at one guy's numbers and say he'd be an offensive improvement, let's do it. It doesn't work that way though. If the White Sox weren't willing to take on a guaranteed 3rd year for Vizquel before the season, they aren't going to do it now. Of course I am not sitting in the war room nor do I have a crystal ball but they keep saying they don't want to mess with the team chemistry and yet every day here is another trade idea that disrupts the team chemistry. I don't care if Vizquel is a good locker room guy or not, the point is moot, it changes the chemistry. If there's a trade, IMO the Sox will part with prospects. A fair enough point. But a trade for Schmidt (that might also include Vizquel) is not viable unless the Giants are willing to take Contreras's (and Uribe's if Vizquel is involved) contract off our hands. Otherwise, a deal for one or both blows up our carefully planned salary structure. And do you really believe Contreras or Uribe are critical to team chemistry? As you can see, I made the argument in the same post that Crede may be because he was home-grown, but I just don't see it for the other guys. And sure the Sox could have taken Vizquel's guaranteed 3rd year in the offseason. The reason I think they may now reconsider that choice (and Kalapse I added your name here for the quick line suggesting they wouldn't) is threefold: 1) Uribe seems to have reverted to pre-2004 hitting form, 2) KW now knows this is a postseason team and will consider stretching to make it the best possible postseason team, and 3) Uribe signed for 3 years after Vizquel rejected us, so we are just plugging one 3-year SS in for another.

QUOTE(upnorthsox @ Jul 1, 2005 -> 10:17 AM) All this Uribe for Vizquel talk has to be put back in its original context, that of one component in a larger trade for Schmidt. In that context there's alot of merit to the idea. Thank you. That is exactly right. To Rowand 44, Kalapse, Zoomslowik, and CWSGuy406, all of whom trash Vizquel, I ask, how would you improve the Sox' offense via a trade at this point? These positions are set: LF (Pods/Everett), CF (Rowand), RF (Dye 2year deal/Everett), C (Pierzynski/Widger), 1B (Konerko), 2B (Iguchi), and DH (Thomas/Everett). There are only 2 positions on the field where the Sox could possibly improve this year via trade: SS and 3B. Now if you compare who is really hurting us offensively, the answer is Uribe. His .279 OBP (.238 against righties) is 3rd worst among major league SS, and his .381 SLG doesn't compensate to rank him much higher. (Omar Vizquel is 5th at .366 OBP.) Uribe has had no good months. And his current numbers are like 2 out of his last 3 years, when he also finished the season with an OBP below .300, so I'm not expecting a quick return to 2004 form. By comparison, Crede's .301 OBP isn't that much better, but he has 11 HRs for a .424 SLG, and he slugs as well against righties as he does lefties. Plus Crede has had two decent to good months - April and June. It was May that killed his numbers. So who's available that could be had to improve these positions? At 3B, there is one guy available. Joe Randa. (Drop the Eric Chavez fantasy.) But why go after Randa and give up on Crede? Randa is a 3-month guy. Crede is around for a couple more years if we want him. Crede's also home grown, which I think has some value for team chemistry. Randa's a mercenary at this point. Plus there is the defensive difference. At SS, Omar Vizquel likely would be available if we surrendered Uribe in the deal. They both have 3 year contracts. The only other guy that I've seen mentioned in Julio Lugo, but he's not signed, is a right hander, and he makes a lot of errors. What Vizquel brings to the table are so many of the things Uribe lacks. First, he hits best from the left hand side, so he makes a natural pairing with Ozuna who hits lefties much better than right handers. Second, his OBP against righties is over .400, so he is making an out against right handed pitchers far, far less often. Third, he is said to have the highest fielding percentage of any SS in history, so you can't claim his defense would hurt us. I'm not claiming Vizquel is a savior, but packaged with Jason Schmidt, he would give us a guy who can get on at the bottom of the order and another left handed bat, which we have in short supply. Plus he's not costing us much more than Uribe, so he fits right in with our salary structure. I just don't see many other viable options this year. If you want to criticize this, fine. Just come up with an alternative that makes more sense and make your case.

QUOTE(GreatScott82 @ Jul 1, 2005 -> 02:54 PM) I don't think any possition player will be moved. If KW trades anyone- it will be minor league talent or a bullpen arm to aqcuire a starting pitcher. After the AS break- we aqcuire a starting pitcher (Schmidt) for BMAC and a couple of other minor leaguers. El-duque moves to the the pen, Marte comes back- Walker sent back down, Timo gets released, and we will have 7 arms in the pen not 6, while Willie, Carl, Widger, and Ozuna will be the 4 remaining bench players. That is what will happen IMO. Our rotation is already set to have an ACE to go after Buerhle as BMAC is pitching behind Buerhle right now. Here is what it will look like: Garland Buerhle Schmidt Garcia Contreras (El-duque = spot starter- kind of like Rusch's role with the Cubs) What do you guys think? BMac would be my one untouchable in the organization. Ozzie compares him to Blackjack McDowell, which seems a tad premature, but I think it is possible. The kid pitched a tremendous debut game and likely would have won if Ozzie didn't yank him or put in Vizcaino to replace him. Then, after catching a breather, which he needed, he came back the other day to pitch a very good game against the Tigers. No walks, 5 Ks. At his young age, he can already control his pitches and throw strikes. That is something it has taken Jon Garland eons to do. If the Sox want Schmidt, and I believe they do, they have to convince SF to take Jose Contreras in return. SF doesn't want phenoms anyway, as they want to be ready to go next year if BB returns. Contreras gives them a slightly cheaper and healthy pitcher who can eat innings and will likely do well in their ballpark. Of course the Sox would have to give them some carrots to sweeten the deal. My vote would be Brian Anderson and maybe Jeff Bajenaru. Of course, I also think we should try and swap shortstops with them to give us better offensive balance without hurting our defense. And if they threw in Vizquel for Uribe, I'd be willing to add their choice among Gload/Munoz/Diaz/Borchard. I think Schmidt is still the most likely quality starter that we could pick up because we have what SF is looking for. AJ Burnett might be a better pitcher, but can we afford to sign him after the season? We should also be trying to keep Schmidt away from Boston, as they are the AL team that scares me the most in the postseason.

QUOTE(qwerty @ Jun 30, 2005 -> 10:26 PM) The white sox will not trade for him so i don't understand all of this vizquel talk. If we really wanted him we could have had him in the off-season without giving up any prospects at all. The third year was the deal breaker for us, as it should have. If vizquel only had one more year left on the contract i would be all for it... but he doesn't. I would not trade uribe for him in any sort of deal, we would be losing 13 years right there. Even if we did trade for vizquel majikly we would then have a back-up infielder making two million plus. Yes we could have had him, but signed Uribe for 3 years instead. I bet KW is rethinking that decision now that Uribe's hitting has returned to pitiful form. I'm not suggesting this trade is a slam dunk, but it does give us a more balanced offensive team because it gives us a SS who can hit righties (Vizquel) while keeping one who can hit lefties (Ozuna). Together they will make a lot fewer outs than Uribe/Ozuna. The OBP differential for right handed pitchers between Vizquel and Uribe is .166. That's like having Frank Thomas's OBP instead of Joe Crede's.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jun 30, 2005 -> 09:51 PM) I meant when he's with us, and either he retires or he moves on to another organization. So what if Vizquel retires after 3 years. We don't have Uribe signed for any longer than that. As for Vizquel aging, I'm not worried at all, especially if we begin to rest him against lefties. Plus, I watched the Giants game the other night and he doesn't look any older than he did at 30. You don't see the decline with the bat and the legs like you saw with R Alomar. I think the Sox need to improve their hitting for the postseason but they have only limited possibilities to do so. The two potential places for improvement are SS and 3B. I think SS is likely to yield a much greater return than 3B where Crede at least has proven power and has learned to start taking pitches to right field. Vizquel has the added dimension of being a lefty, a tremendous bunter, someone who can steal a base (13 this year out of 20 attempts), and he can work the count and draw a walk. In other words, a perfect player for Ozzie-ball.

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jun 30, 2005 -> 07:07 PM) Props for backing it up with he numbers but Uribe had his breakout season last year. I doubt Vizquel was good his entire career. Uribe wasn't even playing a lot in Colorado! What? I said Uribe would have been a lot worse but for 2004. That was last year, wasn't it? And the Colorado numbers are what they are. Two of his years there under .300 OBP. His strong tendencies are to swing at bad pitches and make outs. His walk numbers are attrocious. In the postseason, those numbers will be worse because he'll be facing good pitching most every night. Plus, you can see Vizquel's career numbers in his total sheet. Lifetime .341 OBP. Even better against right handed hitters, as he's always been better from the left side.

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jun 30, 2005 -> 05:13 PM) I disagree. IMO, the fact that Uribe DID range that far and DID make an awesome strong throw, AND he's not even 100% yet, makes me feel better about him than Vizquel. I think there is no comparison offensively. Uribe is better. Uribe is better offensively? Vizquel since 2000: 2000 Cle 156 613 101 176 27 3 7 66 87 72 22 10 .287 .377 .375 .752 2001 Cle 155 611 84 156 26 8 2 50 61 72 13 9 .255 .323 .334 .657 2002 Cle 151 582 85 160 31 5 14 72 56 64 18 10 .275 .341 .418 .759 2003 Cle 64 250 43 61 13 2 2 19 29 20 8 3 .244 .321 .336 .657 2004 Cle 148 567 82 165 28 3 7 59 57 62 19 6 .291 .353 .388 .741 2005 SF 72 271 38 83 17 3 1 27 26 25 13 7 .306 .366 .402 .768 Total -- 2210 8090 1167 2230 365 57 67 742 811 819 331 136 .276 .341 .360 .701 Uribe's career: 2001 Col 72 273 32 82 15 11 8 53 8 55 3 0 .300 .325 .524 .849 2002 Col 155 566 69 136 25 7 6 49 34 120 9 2 .240 .286 .341 .627 2003 Col 87 316 45 80 19 3 10 33 17 60 7 2 .253 .297 .427 .724 2004 CWS 134 502 82 142 31 6 23 74 32 96 9 11 .283 .327 .506 .833 2005 CWS 65 215 24 53 12 1 5 33 12 35 2 3 .247 .279 .381 .660 Total -- 513 1872 252 493 102 28 52 242 103 366 30 18 .263 .304 .431 .735 The difference making year for Uribe is 2004 (and his rookie year of 2001) or the gap would be worse. (If he hit that well, I wouldn't want to trade him.) In 3 out of his 5 years he's posted OBP numbers below .300, and if you look at the splits, he's only that decent because he bashes lefties, which Ozuna can do just as well. If the rest of our offense was gangbusters, we might be able to carry Uribe as an out in the postseason. But a bottom of the order with Crede and Uribe and, if we were lucky enough to make the WS, the pitcher, is not a recipe for scoring runs.

QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Jun 30, 2005 -> 04:36 PM) go to the whitesox official homepage, you can watch the play under "Uribe's Clutch Play" and decide for yourself if Vizquel would have made the play. Keep in mind that I really like Vizquel and wanted him on the Sox in the offseason. Okay, I looked. I agree that Vizquel (and very few other SS) could not have made a throw from that far. But Uribe didn't have to range that far to get to the ball. The reason the throw was so far was because he started the play in the outfield grass. Vizquel would have been positioned in the infield dirt instead of the outfield grass (knowing his arm is not as strong), but would still have likely gotten to the ball, and from the dirt would have had a very good chance of making the throw in time to get Polanco. The marginal difference is not worth keeping Uribe if we could get SF to part with Vizquel.

After reading 9 pages of this post, I still believe the potential trade I posted on page 5 or so is still the best deal for the Sox and one that is realistic for both teams. Sox get: Jason Schmidt and Omar Vizquel. Giants get: Jose Contreras, Juan Uribe, Brian Anderson (or Sweeney), and their choice of 1 among Takatsu/Vizcaino/Bajenaru and their choice of 1 of Gload/Munoz/Diaz/Borchard. Can any other team beat that deal? Washington might offer Zach Day, but he's never thrown more than 130 innings and he's hurt. And I doubt Washington can add major league ready prospects to the mix because anyone fitting that description has already been called up. Boston, the Yankees, and the O's don't have a better starting pitcher to offer, do they? Branson Arroyo? Miguel Cabrera? If no one can beat the deal, is it sweet enough to get SF to move Schmidt and Vizquel? They don't have to make a trade, after all. I guess I'd be willing to consider other sweeteners as long as Brandon McCarthy is not part of this or any other deal. He proved last night that once he settles down and catches his breath, he's ready to be our 5th starter right now. No walks and 5 Ks. 1 dinger (still his prime weakness). I'd say rest El Duque until September. But the other key to this deal for me is adding Vizquel because replacing Uribe is the best way to improve our offense at this point. If you look at his splits, Vizquel's OBP against righties is a very good .404. Uribe's OBP against righties is .238. Meanwhile, Ozuna get on against left handers at a .455 OBP clip. So a trade for Vizquel would allow Ozzie to play Ozuna on a logical schedule in much the same way that Graffanino used to sub for Valentin. It wouldn't have to be a pure platoon, but it would turn a position that makes outs almost 80% of the time against right handed pitchers to one that makes outs only 60% of the time. At the bottom of the order, that's going to kill a lot fewer rallies and yield a lot more runs. In a tight playoff situation, it could make the difference. The Sox can't get that kind of marginal improvement by trading out Crede for Randa. I'd be ready to make this deal any time, and I think the sooner KW strikes, the better.

QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Jun 30, 2005 -> 04:09 PM) His defense saved the game last night, it doesnt get any more significant than that. I'm not in Chicago so I didn't see the game. What was the play he made, and can you say for certain that Omar Vizquel couldn't have made the same play? It's my belief that in the postseason, a 8th or 9th place hitter that is going to get on base on average at least once more per game and who has much better speed is of real value, especially when you are splitting hairs about their defensive differences.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jun 29, 2005 -> 09:46 PM) And both of you are wrong. You're using RF and ZR from this year -- a half season's worth of data, not much. 3E8 showed the past years with Uribe being much, much better. And even if you're gonna use defense as a standard using this years numbers, Uribe has almost two more Win Shares than Vizquel has defensively. Other than errors, which mean very little in the grand scheme of things, Uribe is much better than Vizquel defensively. I'm not doubting that Uribe has some marginal additional value defensively, but I just don't see it making a significant difference. I watched the Giants game last night. The announcers claimed that Vizquel has the best fielding percentage of any SS in history. He's not a liability. Whereas Uribe is a complete liability for the lineup. We're talking .80 points in OPS (1.66 points gap against right handers) difference between Vizquel and Uribe. That's huge.

QUOTE(LosMediasBlancas @ Jun 30, 2005 -> 02:22 PM) I agree. What would you offer them for Scmidt SSI? I'm not SSI. But the trade I proposed on the trade thread was: SF give us Schmidt AND Vizquel, and they get Contreras Uribe Anderson 1 among Takatsu/Vizcaino/Bajaneru 1 among Gload/Munoz/Diaz/Borchard After last night, and if Marte is going on the DL, I'm probably not offering Takatsu or Vizcaino. There is no way anyone is going to offer the Giants more than this. Washington wants him, but the best they could do is Zach Day.

QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Jun 29, 2005 -> 09:00 PM) I gotta go for now, so I'm going to make this really simple. Jason Schmidt's ERA this season is 4.81. He's had only 4 good starts and loads of other mediocre to poor starts. Until he drops that number quite a bit or can string together 3-4 more good starts, I don't even want to consider giving up our top two prospects and eating a bunch of money to acquire him based on the CHANCE that he could pitch like the Schmidt of old and get us to the Series. Until I see some indication that he can consistently pitch like Garland or Garcia, I don't want to give up that much for him. The time to strike for Jason Schmidt is while there is some risk involved. If he completely returns to form, the price will get too high or SF will decide to keep him. You just have to ask yourself whether Schmidt/Vizquel are a much better postseason bet than Contreras/Uribe. To me that is a no brainer even though Contreras has "stuff" as good as anyone. He's a head case that is easy to steal on who is likely to melt down in a high pressure game. (Frankly, El Duque, if healthy, would be a much less risky starter.) Schmidt, even if his velocity remains off a bit, is going to give his best effort and battle to keep the Sox in any game he pitches. And we aren't going to need him to be the ACE and beat the other team's ACE. Plus, if SF takes Contreras/Uribe, the cost to the Sox will be minimal. Perhaps some combo of Anderson, plus Takatsu, Vizcaino or Bajenaru, plus Gload, Munoz, Diaz, or Borchard. None of those players are likely to help us this year in the postseason.

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Jun 29, 2005 -> 08:53 PM) Again, Contreras is only 6 million and not 8 million. Yankees are picking up some of his contract. I read we got Contreras and $3 million from the Yankees for Loaiza. Do you think they are giving us $2 million more each year? If so, all the more reason SF would make the Schmidt/Vizquel for Contreras/Uribe + prospects deal, as they would be saving $5+ million next year instead of just $3+ million. Indeed, that would allow us to take one of the prospects off the table. ************** This post is so long I can't read to the end before responding, though a couple of my responses have already been put up. Sorry if people think I'm being redundant.

QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Jun 29, 2005 -> 08:37 PM) I agree with the general premise that both Contreras & Uribe can be used as part of a package to get Schmidt & Vizquel. They both have sizeable trade value & assuming the White Sox throw in a few million it equates to a salary dump for SF. They are not rebuilding as much as retooling & looking to save a few bucks when Bonds isn't playing. They've got Barry locked up for 2006 so they definitely will look to be contenders next year. Moving to the NL might be exactly what Contreras needs. With Uribe & Contreras in the pkg KW doesn't need to include top tier prospects. 2 mid tier prospects would get it down. I'm actually amazed that more folks here are beginning to see the logic of this. And I can't see any other team than SF having a SP/SS combo that addresses our needs who might take Contreras/Uribe. (Based on the numbers you posted above, Ozuna also would give us more value as a sub against tough lefties.) I think it would take more than middling prospects to make it happen, but I'm willing to surrender Anderson and their choice of Takatsu/Vizcaino/Bajenaru, plus their pick among Gload/Munoz/Diaz/Borchard. (But if they'll take less, so much the better.) I think Schmidt carries his own level of risk, but you know that mentally he is going to be in any postseason game, and the same can't be said about Contreras. ***************** To the poster who said Vizquel is costing $6 million/year the next two years. That is wrong. His 3-year deal is for $12.25 million. Uribe's contract over the same period is $9.75 million. The difference is just over $1 million/year.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Jun 29, 2005 -> 08:18 PM) I'll never understand this way of thinking. We can make the team better without removing any pieces from the present team, and it's a bad idea? The reason Contreras has to go is because he's signed for $8 million next year. Schmidt's option is for $10 million. Either we exercise it or sign him longer term. In any event, you have to subtract Contreras's $8 million to make it work on a zero-sum club like the Sox. We aren't Boston or the Yankees. Same thing applies for Uribe, who is signed for the same period as Vizquel.

QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Jun 29, 2005 -> 07:06 PM) His velocity is still down a bit, which is usually a concern. The more important part was that his performance this year is about the same as El Duque. As I said, unless he puts together a couple of good starts in a row, I'd rather hang onto our top two prospects, unless we could get them to take Contreras in the deal (since their periferrals are similar and cost about the same, I'd rather go with the guy with a better history), and try to acquire some guys that will help our offense a bit and another solid arm in the pen, since our top 4 guys are going to get a ton of work throughout the playoffs. Glad to see more people beginning to see that Contreras needs to be part of any successful deal for a starting pitcher this year. I might rather have Burnett too, but I don't see that happening. First, unlike Garcia, we have little hope of signing him, and as a guy whose topped 150 innings only twice in his career, he isn't going to be worth what some team will pay. Second, the Marlins presumably want a young stud like Cabrera or multiple prospects and would have no interest in Contreras. SF might take Contreras because he has no health issues and would slot in the same position they have Schmidt for $2 million less next year. That may be worth doing for them if we can fill some of their other holes (OF, 1B, RP).

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jun 29, 2005 -> 05:26 PM) Vizquel has committed 3 errors this year, Uribe has committed 8. Uribe has a lower "range factor" than Vizquel. Vizquel has both more attempts and more putouts. They have roughly an equal number of double plays turned. The stats don't show Uribe being a better SS. I think he can become one the longer he stays at short, but he's certainly not better than Vizquel, not yet. Hey, I posted this exact point in response to the same post before I saw what you wrote.

QUOTE(Jabroni @ Jun 29, 2005 -> 04:28 PM) It was only half a season worth of stats. That's not enough for Gload to have decent trade value. I think he has some value as a throw in to a team like SF which is going to be looking for a replacement for JT Snow next year. I'm not saying he's the key to the deal.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jun 29, 2005 -> 04:53 PM) Fair enough on the OBP, but I doubt Uribe ends the year so low. I'd bet his OPS would end up above .700, too -- but he hasn't been very good at the plate. That said, I don't expect Uribe to get on base. I expect him to make up for that with a better-than-average SLG%, which he hasn't done this year either -- but I expect it in the second half. One more thing. In talking about what someone said earlier, I think adding another bat is more important than another arm. And, to get Aubrey Huff, I'd start the package with Josh Fields. Obviously, there'd have to be more than just him, but I'd certainly be willing to sacrafice last year's first-round pick to get Huff... And Uribe is not = Vizquel defensively. Uribe is much, much better than Vizquel defensively. Uribe has a better arm and more range... Vizquel has 3 errors to Uribe's 8, and has turned the same number of DPs (albeit in more innings, but with a different pitching staff). Plus his ZR and Range factor numbers are basically as good. I don't doubt Uribe has a stronger arm, but overall we wouldn't be hurt defensively with Vizquel in there. As for hitting, good pitching eats up Uribe so I see him as an auto out in the postseason. Vizquel is much more difficult to get out. As for Huff, I was once for him, but now I don't see a position. He's too weak defensively to supplant Crede at 3B, and he's not better than Everett as a lefty backup to Dye, and if Ross Gload comes back and isn't traded, he's not better than Gload as a lefty backup to Konerko.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jun 29, 2005 -> 04:28 PM) Schmidt has a buyout. Starting pitchers can be traded. The idea is going for a world championship, not just hoping to make the playoffs and hoping to win a series or two. If the Sox acquired Schmidt for minor leaguers, I guarantee you ESPN would have a different attitude about them. And if they did win the WS, the payroll next year would swell to a lot more than $80 million. If Contreras can be traded, then why not make him part of a deal for Schmidt? He's a more proven commodity than BMac, Anderson, Gload, or anyone else we might include in a deal with SF. And why do you think I want to make this deal? To improve our chances for a WS with Schmidt and Vizquel instead of Contreras and Uribe. If we added the SF guys, there would be no role for Contreras or Uribe, so why not try to make them cornerstones of a deal. To me, trading just minor leaguers for Schmidt or Barnett makes no sense, even if SF or the Marlins went for it.

QUOTE(KevHead0881 @ Jun 29, 2005 -> 03:44 PM) The only thing that I'd argue with you here is trading Contreras. First off, that'll still leave us with a hole at the 5 spot (unless you think we can count on El Duque being healthy and McCarthy being ready). Also, why would the Giants want to take on Contreras's huge contract? For some reason, I think if we were to pull off a trade for Schmidt, Damaso Marte would be included somewhere in there. I'm not really worried about the division race. El Duque/Bmac can hold that down. I'm thinking postseason with Schmidt instead of Contreras. Plus I see Vizquel's bat and speed being helpful in a tight game.

QUOTE(Jabroni @ Jun 29, 2005 -> 03:53 PM) Come on, dude. Gload has no trade value. He's injured and he was pretty much a career minor leaguer before last year. Granted, he's hurt, but Gload's numbers from last year project better than Snow's and he's the same kind of hitter. Plus, I'm not saying he's the key to the deal. If swapping Sweeney instead of Anderson, or Bajenaru instead of Takatsu/Vizcaino would make the deal, fine. Remember, these are add ons to Contreras/Uribe who are both major league players. I just see no deal for Schmidt or AJ Burnett or any other starter working unless the other team will take Contreras as part of it. We aren't going to have $45 million of a $70 million payroll tied up in 6 starters next year.

Remember, the Giants have light-hitting JT Snow at first in his last year. I actually think Ross Gload might have some value to them. And they could use bullpen help and outfielders, both of which we have an abundance of. Plus Contreras and Uribe fill the slots of the guys they would be giving up. I think it would be a good deal both ways. I would not send BMac in the deal, however, because we should have learned from 2001-2004 that having 5 servicable starters is critical to winning in the regular season and getting to the playoffs. El Duque/BMac are doing okay covering the 5 hole.