Southwest Sider

You know what, it's just cool. A good portion of this city is just on cloud 9, and at this moment it's pretty much great to be a Chicago sports fan. We just have to hope the Sox get their act together soon enough to deliver this city a crosstown World Series.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 3, 2016 -> 08:46 AM) Yeah, in 2003 or so I would have been livid. Now it's a bregrudging respect for the Cubs doing things right and following their plan to a T...investing in Latin America, investing in one of the best managers in the game and a gaggle of top-notch front office people. I would have hated Ricketts back then as well...the feeling today is more one of happiness for the sport of baseball and its future, but less and less about the White Sox. In fact, it has made me realize how much I still love the game, and also why following the likes of Yasiel Puig or rooting for the small market Royals or this season the Indians whenever the White Sox were already eliminated provided enough motivation to keep the flames burning in terms of cherishing the sport and its long history that is unlike any other. Respect. Like you, I actively rooted against the Cubs in 2003. When it seemed to be a sure thing that they were going to the World Series in 03, I had to actually take some time to come to grips with the acceptance of it. Luckily for our fanbase, 2005 happened. Without that happy moment in my baseball fan life, I'd have some weird mixture of happiness for family/friends, complete embarrassment with the Sox, and pure jealousy of how the Cubs have done what they did. I already have a weird mixture of emotions like that, but it is lessened. Possibly this is due to having a more adult perspective, I mean, I was only 15 going on 16 in 2003. But I have to think that the Sox actually doing it once really helps. Like you said though, respect. Tom Ricketts runs his organization the right way, and it's proven how quickly a franchise can turn around.

QUOTE (The Mighty Mite @ Oct 29, 2016 -> 02:59 PM) If these things don't happen, I hate to say it but when the lease is up, the White Sox will probably move to another city. Thanks for sharing your post. While I agree with a majority of it, I have to say that I disagree about the Sox moving to a new city. This is one of the largest cities in America, and while Sox fans may not be as plentiful as Cub fans, there are still a LOT of them. I work in a grocery store and obviously the Cubs have been the hot topic. This is definitely a small sample size but I feel like it can be applied... while we were all talking about the Cubs, my usual rhetoric was "I'm a Sox fan but this stuff is still pretty cool!". And I was amazed at how many people actually admitted that they were Sox fans, too. I feel like you can successfully extrapolate this sample size over the majority of Chicagoland. I forgot if I read the stat on here or somewhere else, but someone said that the ratio of Cubs fans to Sox fans on Twitter is 7 to 2. Not particularly impressive for our Sox; it speaks to how badly Reinsdorf has been running this franchise. But if that ratio is a good representation of ACTUAL Cubs fans to Sox fans, then that means that there are still a LOT of Sox fans. I think the Cubs will definitely win a majority of new baseball fans, but there are still Sox families who raise their children Sox fans, and new baseball fans who like to root for the underdog. The Sox absolutely cannot move. Generations of White Sox fans would be isolated, and a franchise with a rich history (albeit not a winning one) would be eliminated. No Paul Konerko statue. No Frank Thomas statue. None of the countless historic Sox players will be remembered if Comiskey closes. This is just a disgruntled, irritated fanbase right now, waiting for our day again. Most diehards have gone into waiting for either Reinsdorf to sell, or to pass. I don't wish death upon anyone, but that is the reality and I'm not wishing JR dies, just kinda hanging out here with my favorite baseball team being the definition of suck. Thanks again for sharing.

My grandpa just turned 80 and he was so happy for the Sox in 2005, despite being a diehard Cubs fans. They had brought a MLB championship to Chicago. I'm so happy that he was able to live to see this day; unlike so many others grandparents. Some of my best friends are elated and I couldn't be happier for them. There's nothing wrong with this: There are still A LOT of Sox fans. I meet them constantly it seems. We are just waiting for our day again.

AWW I MEMBER!!!!

The culture is definitely on a downswing. All the reasons stated in this thread are good ones: Losing franchise, no real hope for the future, second fiddle to a now dominant franchise on the North Side. It's true, being a White Sox fan sucks right now. It's sucked since 2007 which is almost a decade now. Sure, we will have our players who are worth remembering like all the mediocre White Sox teams of past, but other than that this franchise is very forgettable. I love watching baseball games but there comes a point where watching bad baseball just isn't fun. If the Sox were good and competitive the culture would be fine. All the hiding Sox fans would be coming out in droves. They would be tailgating before, and after games (as security allows). They would be loud and into the games. But we just don't have that now and with the seemingly hopeless direction from ownership our best option is to just wait in the weeds for some real change. The 2005 White Sox probably won some part of a new generation of fans, which is good for them. Otherwise I'd be terribly concerned about how many fans this team will actually have in the future. To be sure, the new Cubs are going to win most of the new generation of fans from here on out. It's classy of the White Sox to congratulate the Cubs on Twitter, but also lame. JR, are you really okay with the Cubs fanbase getting bigger and bigger while yours stagnates? And possibly even shrinks as older Sox fans pass on and bandwagoners switch to the Cubs? That's current and future revenue that you are missing out on! I think this is why some Sox fans speculate that a new owner could move the franchise. It won't happen because I don't think MLB would allow it, but a new owner would be buying a team with a declining customer base and be forced to take on an absolute juggernaut of a competitor to win customers. JR, aside from having limited financial commitments, has NOT set up a new owner for success at all. They basically conceded to the Cubs and now with the Cubs seemingly on the verge of going on a run like the Blackhawks, things look bleak. But it's not over yet. Anything is possible, including reviving this fanbase while the Cubs are doing their thing. There IS money to be made here, you just have to invest. Invest in bright baseball minds and a farm system and Latin America. It is possible to have two sellout franchises in Chicago. The new owner just has to see it. He has to accept that Cubs fans will outnumber Sox fans, and embrace his smaller piece of the Chicago baseball fan pie. He can make that piece larger because there will always be those people who make the unpopular choice. That's the thing about having choices. As long as a young new baseball fan have options, then you have a chance of building your fanbase. It could be as simple as it was for me, Frank Thomas was an outstanding player and turned me into a Sox fan. That's all a young kid might need. Not all hope is lost, but us Sox fans are stuck playing the waiting game while the Cubs rock this town. Our culture is definitely on the decline. But I still feel "cool" being a Sox fan, being the minority. I've seen a surprising amount of people wearing White Sox stuff, so when I do I usually say something like "hey there's another Sox fan!" or something to recognize their clothing. What our culture is, is that we're all in this together. It's the suckiest pile of suck that's ever sucked, but heck, we're all still alive and life itself is a pretty cool thing so it's not all that bad. We're just waiting for our day again... hopefully it actually comes.

I'm sitting here wondering how on Earth the Indians got home field advantage... .. and then I finally remember the All Star Game rules. Doesn't anyone think home field should belong to the team with the better record? Ah well, the Indians are gonna need all the help they can get. Plus, they probably had a much tougher schedule all year then the Cubs.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 22, 2016 -> 09:58 PM) Sox are irrelevant. Doesn't matter what they tweet as long as it's not, "f*** the Cubs." Or "We Won One First." That'd be sour grapes. Other than that, we are irrelevant baby. "Yeah, congrats to the Cubs! You just won the next generation of baseball fans in Chicago, thus cementing our relative irrelevance for the next century!" -Sox Twitter Oh well, they did it the right way. I'm happy for my Cubs friends and family, still very disappointed that my Sox didn't dump KW to the curb and try to hire Theo when they had the chance. Theo likely would have chosen the Cubs anyway, but I could have dealt with a burnt KW bridge for at least the effort to sign a free agent Theo.

All Sox fans at the Hawks game tonight, probably.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Oct 16, 2016 -> 10:09 PM) PSA: Hawks tickets have gotten really cheap on the secondary market for some reason. I don't know if it's cause they are at the same time as Cubs NLCS games or just Blackhawks overload, but you can get seats for under $40 for Tuesday night. That's been unheard of the last few years. I'm going to say it's mostly the NLCS, with a little bit of the latter sprinkled in. Thanks for the heads up man, normally I'm on top of this kind of stuff and would have thought to at least look at Stubhub because of the NLCS. I've been so busy it didn't even cross my mind. Needless to say, scored SRO for $20 each (before Stubhubs massive tax). And I'm sure we'll be able to find a decent place to pop a squat as well.

QUOTE (whitesoxjr27 @ Oct 13, 2016 -> 09:12 AM) I am in the same camp as you. Let them win and maybe cubs fans will finally STFU about it. They won't shut up, especially the idiots, but who cares. There are plenty of good Cubs fans out there who we can have good conversations with regarding baseball and the playoffs. I'm happy for those people and especially my grandpa if the Cubs win it all. Won't ruin my life, just make it a little more interesting. I always tell the good Cubs fans that I'm envious of their team because they have literally done everything I would have wanted the Sox to do, down to hiring Theo and Joe Maddon. It's nice that it's at least a Chicago team that "gets it", so to speak. I know a lot of you don't look at it like this but my saltiness for the Cubs vanished when they choked in 2003 and the Sox won in 2005. What I also have realized is that there are still plenty of Sox fans. The Cubs winning isn't going to take those Sox fans away. It will probably make the next generation mostly Cubs fans, but that's already status quo. The Sox will have their day again someday and we just gotta wait it out at this point. The only reason to be salty if the Cubs win is if the jerk offs try to rub it in your face. I'm sure as a collective we can come up with a generic, canned response that's like 3-4 sentences long for every Cub fan who tries to make us feel bad because the Cubs won and the Sox suck. It's just a sport for crying out loud, there's so much more to life than worrying about such things.

Exciting baseball on the North side, that's for sure. I know for sure that I miss exciting baseball. As avid a Cub hater as I once was, I grew out of that irrational hatred for something as silly as a sports team. Why waste energy hating? Those of you who do, this is not a shot at you, just my own introspective feelings. I am from Illinois and align with Chicago sports teams. The White Sox are my #1 baseball team but as they continue to flounder with year after year of bad baseball, there is another option of exciting (really exciting) baseball. Who wins inside me? The once avid Cub hater who actively rooted against them in 2003? Or the baseball enthusiast who is lucky enough to have another great sports team in the city of Chicago besides the Blackhawks? I don't know if I can root against them. Maybe it's because I don't know enough obnoxious Cub fans like many Sox fans do to fuel that Cub distaste. I don't know. Whatever is going on on the North side, I feel left out. You won't see me buying any Cubs tickets or clothing, but this Sox fan might just be rooting for the Cubs come October.

QUOTE (Chet Kincaid @ Aug 2, 2016 -> 10:31 AM) ESPECIALLY if that other Chicago team goes on a Yankees like run and takes over the city. What young kid is going to want to be a White Sox fan? The Mets still have a solid fanbase. Granted, New York is a different animal than Chicago, but I think that shows us that not all is lost for the Sox in Chicago should the Cubs become a dynasty.

This team desperately needs new ownership. JRs glory years are behind him. However, I highly doubt MLB would allow an owner who intended to move the team purchase the team. The market is here for the White Sox, they just need to figure out how to have a top 10 farm system, and spend just enough to round out the edges. Makeshift teams of other teams castoffs is not a recipe for success, and it seems like management (KW?) continues to try and emulate what happened in 2005. It's not happening. JR is too nice. We all wish he would see what other teams like the Red Sox, Astros, Royals, Cubs etc. are doing and try to emulate that, but he would need entirely new management. I wish he would just stick 2005 in his pocket and call it a career, because his strategy for winning is not a very good one. Also, at this point, he's probably just too old to consider a rebuild. This team needs a progressive, younger owner that is willing to invest what it takes to make this team great. I don't know that this trade period is a PR disaster, though. Hardcore fans like ourselves seem to mostly want a rebuild because we see it as the best possible way of obtaining sustained success. Actually, come to think of it, I think either option (gut the team or keep the team) is a PR nightmare simply because the team has sucked for years. If you gut the team, everyone who loves Sale, Q etc. will be mad at the Sox for not being able to build around their favorite players, and selling off a HOF pitcher. If you keep the team, other fans will be mad because they aren't selling their valuable assets off in order to rebuild and maybe be competitive by 2018. There's no winning. The only saving grace here, and I mean the only one is that none of the players are going to be leaving for free yet. Zach Duke was going to be a free agent and I'd argue our return from St. Louis trumps draft pick compensation (which we probably wouldn't have offered. ~16 million for a reliever? No thanks). I know no one wants to hear this, but the Sox can still try and compete next year. Maybe Abreu turns it around. That would be huge. Maybe we can add another important offensive piece or two to this team. I definitely don't see the Sox being true competitors next year, though. It would require a lot to happen right. Gonzalez and Shields need to keep it up. The bullpen needs to stop sucking. Frazier needs to keep hitting homers and raise that average a tad. Abreu needs to go back to Rookie Abreu. Tim Anderson and Rodon need to get close to their ceilings. They need a legit catcher and a legit center fielder. I just don't see it happening, because the hardest part of all this is acquiring a legit catcher and center fielder. I see the Sox reloading rather than rebuilding this offseason. I think it is harder for the Sox to sell Sale or Q in the offseason because teams will offer players from their MLB roster. That does nothing to help the Sox. I don't want to trade Sale or Q for Mookie Betts because then your starting pitching goes from great to ok. Sure, now you have Mookie Betts, which is great, but you need quality MLB pitching to compete. These are some dark times for White Sox fans. I won't be very pleased if the Sox go for it next year out of fear that we will continue to see what we always see: mediocrity. Maybe the Sox will get lucky and catch lightning in a bottle again, but I think you will truly see the selling begin at next years trade deadline, and then into the following offseason. Melky, Lawrie and Frazier will be impending free agents. They will be easier to move because teams probably would want them as rentals only. David Robertson at 1.5 years is less of a commitment than 2.5. Sale and Q will be slightly less valuable due to having 1 less year of control, which would slightly lower the Sox asking price and maybe make them easier to move. Perhaps Abreu turns it around and you can also trade him for a kings ransom. The only worry is the pitchers. You have to hope that Sale and Q's arms don't fall off, because they are your golden tickets out of this mess. If they get hurt, you can kiss a great rebuild goodbye. I have to say, if this holds true and the Sox go for it in 2017, and sell by the deadline when things aren't working, that will align with a supposed "3 year plan", which is try to compete with the core. Acquire short term assets to not hamstring yourself in the future. If it doesn't work, sell sell sell by the end of year 3.

I agree that Moncada should be coming back in a Sale deal, but the Red Sox do have an interesting argument for not including him. Sale has 3 years left on his deal at bargain prices. Say you trade Moncada ++ for him, Moncada being someone you've already paid a $63 million bonus to and gotten no production from (please correct me if I am wrong). The Red Sox could be arguing that they would essentially be using that Moncada money for Sale, which ultimately would add $21 million per year into the 3 years Sale has left. That puts Sale's salary + sunk Moncada cost at over $30 million per year, which hurts a ton of Sale's surplus value, which hurts his trade value. I guess I can see why they might not budge on Moncada, which is really too bad because Sale commands your #1 prospect and more. To be clear, I agree with iamshack in the post above. Their stupid penalty and bonus is none of our concern. He is your top prospect and he is coming to Chicago if you want Sale. Just playing a little devils advocate.

Thinking of the possibilities and being teased is fun, but I think JR would rather reload in the offseason then sell off assets. I'd say it is unlikely Sale or Quintana get traded.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 10:58 AM) However, last offseason, people convinced themselves of exactly that. Hence why I said this. Remember where we are now and how we got there when judging the next batch of moves. This is an important thought. I noted it during the offseason, and I think I know what you're getting at. The Sox have guys with value on short contracts. They brought in Frazier, Lawrie, Melky, Robertson and then they have their core to deal from. The Sox set themselves up nicely to be sellers should the situation call for it. Each of our players that we could deal, which are numerous, could bring back reasonable returns. The Sox could load up with a few more like players during the offseason and still be set up well to sell if they need to. I'm torn because I like a lot of our players but still, the Sox need to reload their farm and the OP is right, this is a golden opportunity. I lean towards selling, but to properly rebuild I think you have to sell from the core as well.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 10:49 AM) People aren't going to be able to deal with a full rebuild. Just look at the facts. 2014 was a rebuilding season, how many people complained about Konerko taking the 25th spot and ruining "roster construction"? They weren't going to win, I thought people didn't care. And many who have said this season is over are complaining Jacob Turner is starting tonight. That's what you get in a rebuild. Guys like Jacob Turner starting, for years. You should say "some" people can't deal with a rebuild and guys like Jacob Turner starting. Sure, there are always those who can't see the light at the end of the tunnel. Glass half empty sorts of people. Whatever, who cares about them? I have two statements for those kind of people, pick the one you like the most. 1) The Sox will be .500 or worse the next 3 years. 2) The Sox will be well under .500 the next 3-5 years, but are working on building an elite farm. These people who pick #1 are sacrificing the possibility of a VERY bright future for a couple more W's in a .500 season. What is the point of that? There is no "but" with #1 other than "but maybe they will catch lightning in a bottle ala 2005 and win it all". The competition is too stiff in the American League to hope for miracles. 2005 was a miracle, and it seems like we keep chasing a title using a strategy similar to 2005. It just doesn't work. If people get pissed about a few horses*** seasons with the caveat that they're rebuilding, then screw them. That's on them for being closed minded.

As much as many may have doubted the merits of going for it, it really wasn't a bad move. Many had observed awhile back while the Sox were loading up that many of the players were on short contracts, making it much easier to unload them should the Sox prove to not be serious contenders. One question I had with it was would these players retain or build upon their value? If the players were playing well enough to have value, then there was a good chance that the Sox were contending. If the Sox weren't contending, then these players haven't been playing as well and have lesser trade value. The other question I had is would the Sox only trade guys like Melky, Robertson (and the rest of the pen), Lawrie, and Frazier in the event of a rebuild and continue to try to build around the core of Sale/Q/Abreu/Eaton. The good news is that I think these players have performed well enough to have decent trade value. Robertson is an elite closer, yes he is paid handsomely but the contract is by no means an albatross. He should fetch a good return. Melky has continued as he has in his career of being a professional hitter. Having him on the team has been vital to staying near .500, in my opinion. He is a great hitter and with only 1 year left on his contract, should be able to bring solid value back. Frazier has had a terrible batting average but his power is real and he could well hit 40+ home runs this year. We'd be a lot better off if he hit for power and average, but he definitely has value. Lawrie is pretty decent too, I'm surprised Oakland let him go for so little, but maybe that's the kind of return the Sox could expect for Lawrie. Duke, Jones, Jennings etc should also bring back value. As has been mentioned in this thread, you can't really trade those short contract guys without trading the core guys. Their contracts will nearly be up by the time a new core is forming, and those core guys have the most value and will bring back the elite prospects. The Sox would need to fully commit to a rebuild. If the offer for a player isn't there this trade deadline, try again in the offseason. If it's not there in the offseason, try next season. Abreu is a great example of this. Some teams might try to snag him on the cheap since his numbers aren't elite, but it might be more prudent to keep him and see what he does next year. A rebuild would also give the Sox the flexibility to see what they have in other players. I think you have to keep a guy like Avi Garcia around because he doesn't have any value and he would fill a position for a rebuilding Sox team. You never know, maybe he actually figures it out and you dump him at his highest value. Keep Tim Anderson around and let him learn on a crappy team. Hopefully he'd be willing to sign a contract to buy out his arb years and 2 years or so of free agency if he's worth keeping him around. That way he could be infused into whatever our new core is by the time it is coming up. Rodon is in a similar situation, but given that his agent is Scott Boras, if/when Rodon figures it out, keep him until he's 1-2 years from free agency and then unload him to the highest bidder. This would help add layers of depth to the minor league system. Get top 10 (prefer top 5) draft picks a couple years in a row and really invest in Latin America. This is where I believe the Sox faulted the most during the past few years. Teams like the Indians who are direct rivals have several good Latin American players on their current roster, and it is a huge reason why they are so much better than the Sox. Focus heavily on bringing in the best Latin American prospects during the rebuild. Instead of investing money into the ML roster, invest it in prospects. Bring in all the best player development people you possibly can. I like Hostetler, so let him run the show there and bring in guys he likes. I kind of agree with some posters here that this is the direction Hahn has wanted to go the entire time. Let him run a rebuild, I say. There's no need to let him go but hopefully KW, who got lucky once in 2005 with a strategy that really doesn't work for long term success and decided to continuously employ that strategy to chase a World Series title, would resign since this direction isn't one that he endorses. That way Hahn can freely run the show. This all sounds great to me. I'm ready for a Sox rebuild. I'm young enough to not care about a few more years of losing (especially with light at the end of the tunnel, unlike now). I'd feel bad for the older fans who might miss out on the potential rewards of a rebuild, but I really hope they wouldn't get too salty about it. This is a business and if the Sox want to win over some newer generations of fans they need to start over with this team because continually floundering around .500 is just not fun. Can JR set aside his urges to win now and approve the rebuild? Would he be okay with possibly dying before seeing the Sox contend again? These are the real questions. There is smoke around a firesell now... which honestly surprises the heck out of me. It would be incredibly admirable of JR if he approved a rebuild, and my respect for him would reach new heights.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jul 19, 2016 -> 01:47 PM) Anyone do the pidgey exploit? im about to try it out tonite I did a session where I evolved all the Pidgeys, Weetles and Rats and some others in a 30 minute Lucky Egg and that rushed me from late 18-20. Yesterday I think I took it a step further and hatched 8 5k eggs and a 10k egg right after I started a Lucky Egg and evolved some. Then I kept evolving those Pokemon. I got about 80k experience from the trick.

Theres a pretty major bug with gyms right now called 1HP bug. It needs to be fixed.

The sheer amount of people playing Pokemon Go is insane. It's so weird seeing all the people who show up for games with highly anticipated releases on the streets rather than the computer. My town is having a weekend festival and I swear more people are downtown playing Pokemon Go than for the festival. It's no wonder the servers are stressed out because the same thing is happening in every town in America. On a game related note, got super lucky today and hatched 2 Pikachus, 2 Squirtles and caught a wild Bulbasaur. Plus, I picked Charmander as my starter so now I have all 4 starters!

Just saw it on MLB At bat. Good for him. Anything to boost that confidence further.

Stoked to see that Soupy is going to be coming back. The Hawks really need a guy like him and it's awesome that this worked out. Keeping my fingers crossed for Staal.. if we land him on the cheap then that is great! It's so cool to be able to sign some higher profile vets for cheaper because they want to chase a cup and play in a first class organization. Truly amazing to see what Toews, Kane, Quenneville, McDonough, Rocky Wirtz, and everyone else has done for this organization. It is great to be a fan of the Hawks right now.

Don't see a whole lot of fighting to be done by Dany's army. Whatever army Cersei has, yes. And Euron's army. Highgarden, Dorne and Iron Islands have aligned with Dany. It will be easy to see the North align with her, especially if she gives them the same deal she gave Yara. Independence, but still respect to the crown. Who else is left to fight Dany's army? The dead... It's good to see Baelish get used and screwed. He looked pissed but he also looked pretty defeated. I wonder what he might try to plot to still achieve his vision, but nonetheless it will further destroyed when Dany arrives. Also interesting, I wonder if Arya will work through her list to the South, or learn that Starks are in Winterfell and rejoin Jon and Sansa. I really hope she doesn't try to go to King's Landing, but plays the patient game and gets with her family. I really see Jaime either abandoning or killing Cersei. It's boiling over for him and I don't think he looks and Cersei and loves her anymore. I hope he just leaves because it would be awesome to see Cersei just get wrecked by the Dragon Fleet. So damn epic. Lastly, Young Lady Mormont is the s***!