Southwest Sider

"This just puts them in a position to compete with us". This really changes the landscape for Cespedes. He has every reason to expect a similar deal, at this point, and I doubt the Sox give it to him. Even though I agree that this is a pretty dumb deal for Detroit, it further exacerbates a problem we are all too familiar with; that the White Sox will not pay open market price for a premium player. Cespedes will get his money from someone and we will be left with Fowler or Jackson. I know I said I was warming up to the idea of Jackson, but with KC retaining Gordon and Detroit nabbing Upton in an already tough division.... I mean seriously how the hell are you going to expect to compete!? You need someone who is a run producer in the outfield and that is Cespedes. Jackson and Fowler are okay players on an already elite team, but they will not push this team over the top.

I think I'm warming up to the idea of Austin Jackson on a 1 or 2 year deal to compete with Avi Garcia. Though I would love Cespedes' run production on the Sox.

QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Jan 18, 2016 -> 12:55 AM) Roc Nation is a new agency and are driving to get their guy top dollar, to not succeed in that chases current and future players away from a new agency. All these leaks mean zero in reality. It's just a nonsense pissing match between camps trying to get their point across through media members. I was going to post something to similar to this, but then discovered that any players who signed up with Roc Nation while CAA was still affiliated are still represented by both. Cespedes main agent in this game is from CAA. Nonetheless, your point does still hold some ground. Roc Nation has since split with CAA and in order to attract high profile sports players, it would behoove them to push for a Boras-like deal. That said, CAA is still involved in this and I'm sure most high profile sports players do their homework on sports agencies. I don't believe Roc Nation has added any significant players as of late. Sure, Cespedes signing a lucrative deal could help. But it didn't seem to appear that Robinson Cano's huge deal has paid dividends for Roc Nation, because CAA was involved. Frankly, I don't even know what the hell Jay-Z thinks he is doing trying to set up a sports agency. CAA cut bait with him after their short relationship. Roc Nation has negative press, you can easily find some using Google. In the end, I agree to an extent that Roc Nation might be trying to press for a massive deal. But the lead agent Brodie Van Wagenen of CAA will be signing off on the final deal. And if the massive deal isn't there, the massive deal isn't there. After enough time has passed, Cespedes will be faced with either taking the best available deal, or sitting out Spring Training or more. I hope that the best deal is from the White Sox. As for Roc Nation, I think they will have a short-lived life. I don't envision them luring many high profile sports players away from respected, well-established sports agencies. I think that their mantra to potential clients is that they will maximize their earning power through the marketing of that player. That promise basically means to me that their players would become one of the few "faces of their league". Is CC Sabathia a face of the MLB? Robinson Cano? Good players yes, but not household names. Ndamukong Suh? Everybody hates him! Dez Bryant? Many people hate him, too! Not much marketing potential for people that the public does not like! The only person on their roster I see as a face of their league is Kevin Durant. He's due for a big deal, and should go to a big market to maximize his earning potential. It looks like the Lakers will make a strong push, but it will be VERY interesting to see if Jay-Z tries to convince him to go to NYC or NJ. It would be smart of Durant to choose LA....

That's a lot of money for a guy who could end up like Adam Dunn.

Beautiful sweater AustinIllini. When they released that ones design, it made me kind of regret purchasing a Toews Winter Classic from last year. But I got a good deal on it because I don't think they were in high demand. I like the design this year slightly better, the black shoulders with white numbers is awesome. But I also like last years design. The all black numbers appeals to me a little bit more then the normal away sweater, which has a red border around the numbers. What I also fell in love with on my sweater is what appears to be the 1955-1956 C logo, which is awesome. I know it didn't get much love from most fans, but I still love it.

The only thing that intrigues me about Fowler is his LH bat, speed and OBP. The rest of his game leaves much to be desired... and it's not like we really need a leadoff hitter or grinder-type of player anyway. We need more legit power, in my opinion. And if you sign Fowler, your OF is pretty pathetic in terms of power. If you sign Fowler you're DEPENDING on Laroche turning back into a 25+ HR guy, and that is not something you can actually depend on. You can hope, you can argue that he will or won't... but you cannot depend on it. If you sign Cespedes then his power output will help offset Laroches if he has another terrible season. This team with Fowler just does not have enough power for a park like US Cellular. If the Sox are going to depend on hopes, then I'd just as well rather see them throw Garcia out there full-time again and depend on the hope that he actually develops into a good player. Keep the money for a better player and keep the draft pick.

I like standing room. Just gotta get there early and camp a spot. It only sucks when something happens where all the fans stand up.

Alex Gordons contract helped to reset the market in a way. He arguably took a hometown discount, and still got a 4 year deal with a possibility for a 5th year. There's definitely room for the Sox and Cespedes agent to meet in the middle, but it has to be on a 5 year deal, in my opinion. Cespedes is arguably more valuable then Gordon, and he should be compensated as such. There is no chance in hell he signs a 3 year deal. The only question is... which side is less willing to meet in the middle? If it's the Sox who won't move off of 3 years, then they aren't seriously pursuing Cespedes. If Cespedes won't move off of a 6 year deal, then the Sox have to keep waiting for them to budge off of it. If neither side is budging...more waiting. I find it very hard to believe that the Sox are still willing to only go 3 years after the contract Gordon just received. I believe the Sox brass is smarter then that, so this leads me to believe that Cespedes still isn't budging off of a 6 year deal. It almost seems like Cespedes has no other choices but to sign with the White Sox...eventually... which continues to make this a most interesting situation. There don't appear to be other serious suitors, but the longer this goes on, the longer a team like Detroit maybe sees the value in offering him a 5 or 6 year deal to not only add to their team, but keep him off of the Sox. Cespedes is probably waiting for the wildcard himself, Mike Ilitch, to decide to sign Cespedes. Hopefully the luxury tax is imposing enough to keep them away from a long term deal. If Detroit finally decides to go in another direction with their OF, then you will probably see Cespedes camp finally be willing to meet the Sox somewhere in the middle.

I am shocked that Davis has an offer of 7/154 out there and hasn't taken it. Who is going to bid that higher? Or even close? If I'm the Orioles GM I am shrinking that contract every two days. Holy crap. Edit: I realize this should probably be in a Davis thread, but there isn't one, so I digress.

I would be shocked if that offer for Davis was still "kind of" out there. If it was, he'd be a damned fool to not take it. With the way the market has moved now, Davis might be looking at 3-5 year deals just like the big 3. He's got to be kicking himself for not taking that 150 million when it was offered.

Avi better be there.

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Jan 1, 2016 -> 09:26 PM) I just want us to get this done. I think adding Lawrie and Frazier to a solid core helps with it. I think it'll be Cespedes and Abreu will help. Not until the agents and players finally flinch. They're soon going to realize that no dumb team is going to enter the scene and fork over a boatload of cash for no raisin, and it is likely that there will not be a bidding war. Couple that with the fact that there are still 6 or so outfielders looking for work and we are now into the new year. Finally, the players and agents will be faced with a decision. Do or don't sign a contract from the one team that is probably offering the best contract available before that one team lands one of your competitors. The agents are probably getting exhausted from trying to win this staring contest and drum up some kind of bidding war. I'm genuinely curious to see where the other 2 players will land and what kind of deal they get. As much as some may love to hate JR for having a tight purse, or what have you, I appreciate the strategy that the Sox employ particularly with this market. The players and agents appear to have no leverage whatsoever other then "Our player (Cespedes, Upton, Gordon) is better then Avi Garcia". And that isn't much, in my opinion. It would be absolutely ridiculous for the Sox to just decide to panic and pay these guys what they want just to get it done and over with. Without other seriously interested parties, the only risk of the Sox losing on any of these 3 players is that they would all decide to sit out the season. Not happening. This process may yet last a couple of weeks, but eventually a player will decide to not be one of the two still holding the pot.

Judging from some of the recent discussion, it sounds like the Sox haven't even made an offer yet. One would think that if it's taken this long to produce an offer, then it should be a pretty enticing, well thought over offer. I'm excited to see what transpires.

QUOTE (AustinIllini @ Dec 23, 2015 -> 07:56 AM) Bowman was out negotiated by a better GM. I'm not like most Hawks fans who are Bowman apologists who think he is the most brilliant mind in the NHL. Even so, it's pretty clear what happened here. There was no "negotiation". There never should have been one, because the Hawks absolutely, positively had to unload Sharp. If a GM pays a dear price for a player that a team has literally zero choice but to trade, then they are an idiot, no matter how good the player. There was no leverage whatsoever for Bowman to even have negotiations. Jim Nill, credit where it's due, stuck to his guns. But that's what he should have done. That's what every other GM in the league should have done. Basically, they tell Stan Bowman "this is the deal, take it or leave it." Bowman can try to negotiate, but the counter to that is "Look, we know the position you are in and you have no leverage. You have no choice but to accept our (terrible) deal or violate the league salary cap". Knowing that, I give Jim Nill credit for actually being the GM that acquired Sharp, but beyond that I don't give him credit for shrewd negotiations because his play was so obvious that even someone like I could see that this was really the only way this could transpire.

Good team, good coach, I think Dallas has done a good job to become what they are now. We'll just have to see if they can keep it up through another 40+ games and an entire postseason. As for the Hawks, they just need to keep winning as many games as possible. This is one of those games when, in the moment, can feel incredibly disheartening to lose, but the season isn't even halfway over yet and a lot can change. Tip your cap and move on.

QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Dec 22, 2015 -> 11:11 AM) I personally am not worried about Laroche I think he bounces back big time this year. If you add Upton or Cespedes his bat continues to slide down in the order and the less we rely on him. I'm okay with Laroche on this team, if we have the money to sign one of these guys, I think the line up is better with one of the big three PLUS Laroache. I agree with this. Hell, even Adam Dunn bounced back nicely in his 2nd season with us. If Laroche really is LaDunn, as some have so affectionately referred to him as, then I expect he will be much closer to his career norms next season.

I agree that the Sox would have to win at least 2 or 3 more championships to steal the city... INCLUDING beating the Cubs in the World Series. And that would still only give them a chance of 50/50 in the immediate term. At that point, the diehard Cubs fans would never switch, so they would still have a massive fanbase, but most casuals would be onboard and a new generation of Chicago baseball fans might turn to the Sox because they are winners. If the Cubs fall back into mediocrity and the Sox win a few more championships over the course of a couple decades, then the tide would start turning in the Sox favor with older generations of Cubs fans dying off and new generations choosing the Sox because of their winning ways. /dreamland. Thinking of this does remind me how crucial of a point this is for the White Sox franchise. The goal right now is to not only get to the World Series, but defeat the Cubs in it because there is a good chance they will be there. Knowing this, it really behooves the Sox to spend more now to get the best possible team in the field to give yourself the best chance of denying the Cubs a title...

Eventually these free agents are going to have to realize that teams are not bidding up for their services. There's just not enough suitors. Makes me laugh at the Cubs a little bit for splurging so much on Heyward. They might have thought they were setting the market, but at this point it's probably going to look like a huge overpayment.

Good movie. Did anyone else feel like they were watching Wall-E during some of those BB-8 scenes?

QUOTE (CWSpalehoseCWS @ Dec 17, 2015 -> 10:30 PM) If the Sox got Upton/Cespedes, I would send Avi to Charlotte to start the year. He doesn't really have any value at the moment. Who knows, maybe he kills it and rebuilds some trade value allowing the Sox to flip him for someone. Avi in AAA is great for the Sox OF depth chart. He won't like it, but he needs to work on his craft, and it is better for that to be done in the minors. He's young enough still.

The OF that we might sign brings another interesting element to this. Whether it is Upton or Cespedes, there is likely a chance that there is an opt-out after year 3. This could make said player more marketable to teams in trade proposals, further adding to our depth of players we could deal to reload. Of course, there is also the angle that you add an Upton or Cespedes for them to be a part of the "core". But if they have good seasons, they will opt-out anyway, so you cannot bank on that.

I just realized that I pretty much posted the same thing twice in 2 paragraphs. That's what I get for starting a post and then finishing it a couple of hours later.

Driving around a bit earlier, listening to 1000 and 670 discuss the trade. The guys on 670 couldn't wrap their minds around this direction. The "going for it" direction. Trading prospects for MLB players. Their argument is that it probably only adds 2-5 wins to a team that only won 76 games. That is possibly true. Even if they add a big-name outfielder, will they have added enough wins? Maybe not! Then what was this exercise good for? Why did the Sox go for it instead of cashing in on assets? It feels like the Sox, in the position they are in, have to go for it. Hahn has repeatedly said that they want to win a championship WITH Sale and Abreu, instead of selling them off. It only makes sense to go for it, while they are here, while they are good. Build the best team you can without completely dismantling the farm. But if our worst fear comes true, that the Sox yet again have another season of mediocrity, will there still be that feeling of being pigeonholed into attempting to contend? If the Sox add an OF, their roster will look pretty set for at least the next 2 years, short stop and catcher aside. After this season, they could move Melky to DH and replace him with Avi(if he gets good) or another OF. They could also attempt to bolster short stop should Saladino prove not good enough, as well as be on the prowl for another upgrade at catcher. Or they could finally decide to go in the other direction. Why? Because it won't be too late. In the shoes of Rick Hahn, it would be incredibly difficult to ignore the following assets and what they might be able to retrieve you via trade: Melky (1 year left) Robertson (2 years left) Duke (1 year left) Frazier (1 year left) Lawrie (1 year left) Admittedly, since you cannot expect all 5 of those players to be at their maximum possible value by the end of next season, this group probably wouldn't bring in more then 1 or 2 blue chip prospects, along with lots of lottery tickets and decent to good prospects. That would be a pretty nice farm reload, all while still leaving the front office the option of either keeping Sale/Quintana/Abreu/Eaton, or selling them off and really going for a rebuild. You could try to trade any number of them and acquire some big-time prospects and MLB ready players. You could also trade none of them and still try to build around them, given their friendly contracts. But trading at least Sale and Quintana might not be a terrible idea. If the Sox are savvy enough, and with enough luck, you could have a bunch of new young players taking their lumps in 2017 with a rotation headlined by Rodon, Fulmer and Adams, and by the time the '17 and especially the '18 off season rolls around, potentially be in a good enough spot to where you could add a few key free agents to a budding club. The point of this post is to illustrate that the Sox, while committed to winning now, are not so committed to winning now that the future is completely jeopardized. I hope I have shown that with the possibilities that the future could hold for the franchise.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 04:26 PM) 4/100 gets a deal done with any of the remaining outfielders, imo. The per year on that is enough to entice any of them to sign, imo. I think the more likely deal is a longer deal with an out at year 3 or 4. That's true. That is what I was thinking, for the most part. Not enough years.

Frank said he'd pay him 4/100. I'm sitting there thinking Frank... that's not enough...