Tony

There was a fairly dramatic drop in power from basically every Sox hitter in 2022 as well. No one knows why it occured, but I'm not ready to say this is the Andrew Vaughn we'll get moving forward. I think moving on from him now is a mistake, but I also understand the roster crunch the Sox are under.

And Mackowiak was a disaster in CF, which certainly didn't help the pitching issues in 2006

I really don't want to fall down the "roster construction rabbit hole" from a team almost 20 years ago, but similar to this team (weird, I know) the Sox were too RH and needed a big LH bat in the middle of the lineup. Thome provided that, and the 2006 offense was a force. Trading Rowand hurt obviously because of the massive flop of Brian Anderson, but he was ranked the #51 best prospect in baseball entering the 2006 season, played tremendous D and was coming off a .294/.358/.470 slash in AAA in 2005 and looked more than ready to handle the position. Again, I will 100% agree the way Frank left the organization was handled incredibly poorly from a PR perspective and should have absolutely been handled differently. But in terms of roster construction, the trade made sense at the time and still basically holds up now. I'm not going to put a ton of blame on the FO for the failures of Anderson and Frank putting together two very solid years at age 38 and 39. Thome was an absolute force in 2006 and it truly seemed like the pitching staff in 2005 sold their souls for that year, and just didn't have anything left to give in 2006. The entire starting staff regressed and insane 2005 seaosns from Cotts, Politte, Jenks and Hermanson in 2005 just weren't matched. The pitching was rough that year and they still managed to pound their way to 90 wins in what turned out to be a pretty great AL Central in 2006

You're leaving out the fact that Frank played every game at DH in 2006. The DH for the White Sox in 2006 put up a 4.9 bWAR that season. (And a 3.7 bWAR in 2007) Things got ugly and it shouldn't have, I agree with that...but acting like letting Frank walk was a terrible decision isn't factually accurate. He was hurt in 2004, hurt in 2005....It wasn't crazy to move on.

So you're going to completely disagree with my take that Hahn shouldn't stay for 2023, but when I ask you for what you would like a new GM to do with the roster in 2023, every starter you listed is currently within the organization. You traded Giolito and Hendricks, and your two FA targets are 33 years old. Interesting...

So what does a "quality" GM do this off-season with the White Sox? Understanding Jerry is the owner. Lay it out for me.

I think it's fair to say I've turned into one of Hahn's harshest critics, deservingly so, but in a lot of ways I think it would be a mistake to let Hahn go this off-season. As mentioned numerous times, the core is mostly coming back in 2023, and not by choice in a lot of cases. You aren't trading Grandal. You aren't trading Moncada. Would be a mistake to trade Robert, probably Eloy as well if you're looking to compete in 2023. There also isn't going to be a lot of budget to play with. Good amount of bad money on this roster. Yes, there are very few GM jobs out there and they are always in demand...but any GM that takes this on right now is coming into a risky situation. It's possible for as much that broke bad this year breaks "right" in 2023, but that seems unlikely. If goes similar to 2022...the future starts to look REAL bleak for a while on the South Side. Not sure who's taking on right now, I sort of think it makes sense for Hahn to see it through at least this year.

No one is even in engaging with you because of how stupid this take is, but if you really feel this way, then you can never be critical of any decision any GM, specifically with the White Sox, make. No GM has any skill, everyone is just playing with lottery tickets so if it just boils down to luck, no one can be better than anyone else. Just keep that in mind the next time you want to rip Hahn.

Good. So am I

We heard this before they hired Tony, too

This is so stupid. " I actually have an idea of where my priorities should have been this season, but the chances of you hearing it is zero" What the f*** is that supposed to mean? What's the point here?

I'm sorry, what now? Travis Kelce, Mark Andrews, George Kittle, Zach Ertz, Kyle Pitts, Gronk, Dalton Schultz, Hunter Henry, Dallas Goedert, Mike Gesicki, Noah Fant, TJ Hockenson and Darren Waller would all like a word. I could add about 6 or 7 names to that list ahead of Kmet but the point is made.

Which is why the Sox don’t have a lot of flexibility or options this offseason. This is the core. The entire rebuild, like any rebuild, only works if you bet on the right players. Every rebuild has a core it’s built around. In any rebuild, certain pieces will always fail that you pegged for greatness, having a 100% hit rate is nearly impossible. But Moncada-Eloy-Robert-Anderson-Abreu-Giolito-Cease was always going to be the “core” that determined if this works or not. They went all-in on their younger players with extensions and right now it looks like they made more bad bets than good ones. They’ve still got a seat at the table, but the chip stack is getting low. The point is, if they want to “compete” the next two years it’s going to happen because the guys listed above produce at the level they expected them to to when they signed their long-term deals. You’re pot committed to these guys. And because of some really bad money in a lot of different areas, it would take WAY more money than Jerry is willing to spend to truly fix this thing for 2023 and beyond. Knowing this, they have to a very strategic off-season and hit on 2-3 important moves, and mostly rely on Moncada-Anderson-Eloy-Robert-Giolito playing at their career bests. I’m not holding my breath

Oh man, this has the makings of a classic.

There isn’t a manager the Sox could hire that would make me feel good about 2023. Can it help the team in 2023 and be a large upgrade over the staff they’ve had the last two years? For sure. But the manager is coaching the team built by the three headed monster that is currently on pace to have 8 of the last 10 seasons end with a below .500 record. The best coaching staff in the world isn’t overcoming that.

While it obviously makes a difference (as we clearly saw with this incredible failure) the bigger point is accurate. None of this matters with the FO in place.

I can’t believe this is a real discussion, but if he was injured, with the heightened potential of doing more damage, then I would absolutely want him on the IL until he’s healthy. What a WILD concept. This from MLB Trade Rumors: His right knee was the issue this time, and Kopech made to make an early exit from a start in June due to soreness in that same knee, with Kopech saying that he felt a small twinge or popping sensation. However, Kopech was on the mound seven days later, and while tests at the time didn’t reveal any structural problems, it is possible the tear developed as Kopech continued to pitch over the rest of the season. Now Kopech has to go through surgery and may alter his off-season training because of rehab and recovery. He literally wasn’t able to command the ball in August, yet was allowed to take the mound anyway because you and LaRussa hold the same views on player health, apparently. Not a side I’d want to be on, but good luck with that.

I’d say I’m incredibly happy you have absolutely no control over any roster decision or player health, but it sounds like you have the same view as a lot of the current coaching staff on the Sox, and we all saw how well that went. You’re also basing individual player health decisions on lack of depth that Michael Kopech or any other player has 0 to do with, which always seems like a super decision.

So Michael Kopech has a meniscus tear and in your eyes is expected to "pitch through it" because he has had other injuries before? I assume you have this same take on Robert, who saw literally having to swing with 1 hand and put up a stunning .087 OPS in the month of September before finally being shut down once the coffin was finally placed in this team. Maybe it's possible players want to push through most injuries (as we saw with Kopech taking the mound on August 22nd and was clearly hurt, but tried his best for the team) but the coaching staff and trainers need to actually do their jobs and you know, "manage" the athletes on the field.

This is a joke, right?

Peter Dinklage is 4'5 Warrick Davis is 3'6 One is taller than the other, but they're both really short.

WHY IS COMPETING FOR THE DIVISION GOOD ENOUGH? That was what the "rebuild" was for? To "compete" in the worst division in baseball?

I'm fucking exhausted of the offseason already and the Sox have 6 games left.

Yeah, keep giving the White Sox the benefit of the doubt. See how it works out for you. I also didn't say it was happening. You claimed it was "almost certain" until you edited your post. That's not true, and that's the point.