Tony

I don't know what this means?

Every pick, at least in the first 10 rounds of the MLB draft, should be BPA. Yes, the Sox need impact bats in their system, but those can be acquired multiple ways. And as so many others have mentioned, what do you trust the Sox developing…bats or arms? So I have very little issue with the choice

Eh, TA sort of broke that streak, albeit short lived.

Your entire argument (tonight) has been Hahn/Williams didn’t identify the right targets in FA. They went after Wheeler aggressively, which would have fundamentally changed what took place for the Sox over the last 3-4 years. They ended up having to settle for a much lesser pitcher in Keuchle, because they were not able to top another offer that was on the table. They identified the right pitcher, they weren’t able to beat out a much better organization in signing the player. Thats on ownership. Additionally, you mention fundamental problems with culture and team makeup. Jerry is the person that kept Hahn and Williams employed WAY past their expiration date, and just hired someone to run his organization that was, wait for it…hired by Hahn and Williams. But sure, the 88 year old Jerry is going to get it right this time, just watch.

But the argument centered around money, and obviously if it were up to Hahn/Williams, they would have paid what was necessary to close the deal. Jerry clearly didn’t want to go there.

oooof, this is not going well for you.

And I'm not giving them a break on Wheeler. The rumor has always been they offered more money, but his wife wanted to stay on the East Coast. That may or may not be true, but if they wanted Wheeler bad enough, I have a very hard time believing more money doesn't get him to Chicago.

Nice job completely ignoring my detailed response to your question. It's part of the reason most "Boomers" don't get the respect they think they deserve. When responded to with a logical response...you don't have one back.

Like Zach Wheeler and Manny Machado, right?

Man alive, if this is what you are hanging your hat on...yikes. These are all below average Major Leaguers.

Welcome to the other side! We'll send your membership card in the mail.

1. Never made a claim that because I have more posts, I'm more baseball savvy. 2. Valuable perceptive? Or valuable perspective? Not really helping the old man argument with that one... 3. In regards to your question on "my timeline" and the "results that I seek" I've said for years now that none of it matters until Jerry is gone. A true, sustainable winner will not be built under Jerry as he won't invest to proper resources into the places investments need to be made, so we can get that out of the way right off the bat. I agree with you that a random playoff team is about the best we can hope for at this current point, similar to what we saw in 2020 and 2021. Currently, the Sox in 2024 are a ways off from that. Spending A LOT of money is the only way the Sox are competitive by 2026, and we can all agree that won't happen, so we're looking at 3-4 years of development and proper asset management before we should expect to see a respectable ball club. (The Sox did their last fire sale in 2016, took them 2017-2018-2019 to build things back up before being competitive in 2020 and 2021) So using that timeline as our baseline...Crochet will no longer be under club control at that point, and Luis Robert would be on the last year of his deal during the 2027 season. If the Sox used both of those players to acquire 4-5 players that would be making their ML debuts in 2026-2027, you have six years of cost control with those players, and ideally can make a run during that window, adding some free agent pieces around the diamond to supplement that core group, like the Sox have done before (Grandal-Hendricks-Keuchel)

Let's just call it for what it is. The argument from a "certain side" of the fan base just lacks any form of critical thinking. It's an incredibly simplistic viewpoint of "These are good players, why trade them, build around them!" but of course that viewpoint leaves out important context like 1. Who the owner is 2. How far away this team is from competing 3. Contract values and length of term and a host of other factors. Some people just don't want to educate themselves on another viewpoint. Not even to change their mind, but to simply understand the other perspective. Greg said "What's wrong with Robert staying on for 2-3 years and making some memories on the South Side?" When users try and explain that no one wants to stay on a perpetual track of losing, but instead build something sustainable, users like greg simply can't grasp how trading Robert can accomplish that. They can't see the forrest through the trees. The biggest disconnect seems to be users like greg seem to think fans want to get rid of someone like Crochet. Because fans are obsessed with a new shinny prospect. When in reality, 99% of White Sox fans want to see Crochet on the White Sox for a long time. But as noted above, fans are smart enough to know the current owner of the White Sox won't pay for a contract extension for Crochet, and given where this organization is in the rebuild process, the next two seasons won't see the Sox contending for a playoff spot. So knowing he won' be re-signed, and the Sox won't field a team around Crochet that can compete while he's under contract...the choice to move him while his value is high seems like an obvious one, but I guess not for some. Lastly, there is something to be said about fans in their 60's, 70's and 80's. Anecdotal, but in my experience both on this forum and in real life, in talking to those Boomers (not a put down) they just want a slightly competitive team. I don't know if it's a "closer to death" thing, but most can't seem to wrap their head around a "tanking process" that will take multiple years, it just doesn't make sense to them and will never accept it, even if it's a harsh reality for most teams in most sports, and has been shown to work.

There is way more truth to this than you realize.

Posted it in the other thread...I have been all over Schriffren this season...but this call made me laugh. It's so weird and stupid and silly...when the team is this bad, I can laugh about it. This doesn't absolve the other bonehead mistakes he's made this season, but this one is harmless, and if the Sox we're 50-20 this season, everyone would have loved it.

I totally missed him doing the “growl” on the Robert HR, and while I have probably been one of his loudest critics, it was so stupid, so weird….I loved it. Credit is deserved where it’s due, and loved that call.

Certainly not one to give the Sox any benefit of the doubt (you have much more than I) but I do wonder if this has been a calculated decision, to showcase him as much as possible because they know they will be trading him. There is historical data that does back up what you're saying, and if Crochet was viewed as a long term investment for the Sox, you would think they would handle with more caution, especially in a season when they are the worst team in the league.

I've read the last 3 pages of this thread and still have no idea what you are trying to argue here. What are you "defending" and what do you believe you are arguing against?

Canucks also retaining 15% of the deal. They need to get better, and think they will, but it’s still a good way to use the cap for right now.

While I'm far from an NBA Expert, this draft seems historically weak...aside from the contract with Giddey, I think I'd rather Giddey than No. 13

Been out of the game for 10 years...WHAT COULD GO WRONG?

And that's kind of the key. It all has to work together. I'm probably wrong on this, I get that...but I really believe if Andrew Vaughn got drafted by, say the Brewers, he's a much better hitter in the Majors than he is today. Development happens in both the minor and major league levels. And while the drafts have seemingly been better under Mike Shirley (jury still very much out on that) it doesn't mean it's going to translate at the ML Level. I need to see that first, on a regular basis, before I believe the Sox have turned any sort of corner.

This is kind of my entire point. You just went full Calfield and listed out like 30 names. And basically all of those names don't really mean anything in the big picture. Talking about Brebbia..so they trade him for something, get a prospect back. What does it matter? Why do I think they will acquire the right player back, or even if they do, develop that player at both the ML and MLB level? They have shown us over and over it doesn't really happen. So what's the point? I don't know, maybe it's just me getting older and having more and more seasons under my belt, I just can't muster up the effort to get into the weeds on the Sox and Bulls at this point. Not saying other's can't. Go nuts. And if I remember my high school self, I used to write out different line combinations for the Blackhawks, during a 20-43-11-8 season. I hadn't seen enough garbage yet. I've just seen too much, especially from the same FO's. It's why I have hope for the Bears. When Poles came in, I was skeptical and had my doubts, because it's the Bears. And I STILL have my doubts because it's the Bears. But Poles has shown me enough during his tenure, where he's allowed me to have some trust in his process, and because of that, it tells me I can start committing more time and emotion to what they are doing on the field. I just can't bring myself to do that for the Sox and Bulls. Not until Jerry goes.

The Bulls are of course in the exact same spot as the White Sox. All of the moves they do, be it Caruso, Zach, Vuc...does anyone believe it's going to lead to them building a winner? Do we have any sort of faith the owner is going to put everyone else in a position to succeed? Built for the long term with the right foundation? My answer is of course no....so what does any of it matter?

Heard Josh Nelson today say Getz won’t be at the MLB Draft Combine, even with 4 picks in the Top 80 this year. Now I don’t know how common that is, that GM’s don’t go down there, but it seemed odd to me