SoCalSox

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Dec 23, 2015 -> 01:30 PM) We all have to remember it's free agency. It's all an overpay for the most part. Unfortunately it's something the White Sox have to do in terms of position players because they can't seem to develop their own. Makes it easier with the cheap top notch pitching they have.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 23, 2015 -> 01:19 PM) The funny thing is, if you sign Cespedes or Upton, when they get to be Gordon's age, at least Cespedes, the contract is going to look a lot like one people don't want to give Gordon. Upton is what 4 years younger? So, say you do a 6 year deal at $21M per. When Upton hits 32 years, he'll have 2 years left vs Gordon who would sign a similar deal at age 32 for say 4 years. The difference is the two years & that's my concern. I think he'll produce well enough for that AAV in the first few years of his deal but worries me on the last half.

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Dec 23, 2015 -> 12:21 PM) I don't see any way he gets $20 mil per. 4 years is all I'd go. My main issue with Gordon is his age. As far as skillset goes, he's exactly what the Sox need but it's hard for me to say he's worth the money he'll get. I'm hoping if they do sign him, it'll be no more than 4 years.

I just hope if the White Sox do sign him that they don't go over the 4 year mark. I know the report is that he is looking for $20M per, but I've read multiple things saying that the FA market moving is moving much slower because players aren't getting offers for nearly what they are commanding. I think 4 years at $16-18M per would be a very nice signing. Doubt that happens, though.

QUOTE (shipps @ Dec 23, 2015 -> 10:53 AM) Why? Yours and many others logic is that they can only possibly go balls to the wall or just do nothing at all. There can be a middle ground to where you do what you can such as trade to fill two major holes on the defensive end and in your lineup and roll the dice with some of the other guys that under performed last year. Because this team has half-assed things for multiple years & have failed miserably doing so. If you are going to go all in, trade for two guys with limited control, while having guys like Sale, Abreu, Quitana, etc in their primes under cheap control, why wouldn't you add the extra player & backload the deal for 2016? I don't understand why you would count on bounce-back years & simply hope you did enough to get into the playoffs. Makes very little sense to me. Either go all in or tear it down. We obviously know they aren't going to tear it down, so why not add the extra player to truly help you contend in a weak AL?

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Dec 23, 2015 -> 10:47 AM) If they sign one of these OF's, Shuck doesn't really have a spot. They need a RH hitting OF that can push Melky to DH vs LHP. What happens when Eaton needs a break in CF if Shuck isn't there?

QUOTE (shipps @ Dec 23, 2015 -> 10:13 AM) That's where I have a difficulty understanding why people don't consider this an option. Is it ideal? No, of course not. But every team has some spots to where they are going to roll the dice on some guys. What team doesnt have guys that they are counting on to have better seasons next year than the year before? You trade 5 prospects for two players with two years of control. I'm under the logic that you don't do that & then expect bounce back years from players in order to truly compete.

Slow day at work & nothing really brewing in the rumor mill, so I went back & read the initial reactions from the trade last week. Pages 4 through about 20 are fun reads. Love the excitement.

My opinion has been the same this entire time: If they can't land a middle of the order bat in the OF, the Frazier move was pretty much pointless. They don't have enough as is to truly compete without big bounce-back years from certain players.

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Dec 23, 2015 -> 08:52 AM) As dumb as I think it is, teams generally do not like having both catchers playing in the same game. If Navarro is DH'ing and Avila goes down for some reason (which seems to happen a lot with him) then all of the sudden our pitcher is batting the rest of the game. That is a good point. Could also see Avila have time at 1B & let either Abreu or LaRoche get the day off. They have multiple options, IMO. Enough to not have to have Avi on the roster if he's not starting. Who knows, though. I'm sure they make a few more moves soon that could provide clarity to it all.

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Dec 23, 2015 -> 08:51 AM) I'm fairly confident he meant Upton OR Cespedes signed along with Parra so it would be just signing two instead of three. Still unlikely to happen. Exactly what I meant. I also said, I know it's not likely that they'd sign one of the top guys, trade LaRoche & get Parra. Just saying, that's what I would like to see them do.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Dec 23, 2015 -> 08:46 AM) When Lawrie, Frazier and Saladino can all play a good 3b, there's no real reason for another utility player. A platoon with Laroche and PH off the bench for saladino/catcher would be way more valuable. Shuck playing LF/CF & having Melky move to DH isn't particularly bad, either. Maybe I'm wrong but I can't see them carrying 5 bench guys or two OF'ers. Navarro may see some time at DH as well.

QUOTE (shipps @ Dec 23, 2015 -> 08:46 AM) The Sox signing 3 of the most expensive FA outfielders in the market is not even worth the thought. It isnt just unlikely to happen it is for sure not going to happen and pretty ridiculous to ponder as a possibility. IMHO. I think you misread my post, my friend. Never once did I say they should sign 3 OF'ers. I said one of Cespedes or Upton, unload LaRoche & go for Parra.

QUOTE (bschmaranz @ Dec 23, 2015 -> 08:35 AM) This. Regardless of which outfielder we sign, we need another bat. Avi or LaRoche in this lineup doesn't signify going for a run. We'll still have two holes in the lineup at C and SS, can't have that third black hole. I disagree. That tandem should be league average if not better. If Flowers/Soto can be league average, this combo should be better.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 23, 2015 -> 08:29 AM) Yes. It'll be a 4 man bench. 12 pitchers, 9 regulars/starters, 4 bench. Which is why I don't think they'll keep 2 OF'ers, especially someone like Avi who can't play all 3 positions. Seems more likely to go Shuck, Sanchez, C, & L. Garcia/Utility type player. I think it's safe to say that if they add an OF'er, one of Avi/LaRoche won't be on the roster opening day. Avi still has an option, which makes me think he's the one who won't be there.

QUOTE (shipps @ Dec 23, 2015 -> 08:31 AM) Cmon dude. You know that is not a possibility in any of the available dimensions that we live in, right? Which is why I said I don't know or more of the point don't think they do that. That's what I would like to see but know it's not going to happen.

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Dec 23, 2015 -> 08:19 AM) I don't think Shuck is going to be the one to make or break Avi being on the team. I could see them going with a bench of backup C, A. Garcia, Shuck, Sanchez and L. Garcia. That's 3 guys that can play the outfield, two of which can play center if needed, and 2 guys that can play infield. With the versatility of Lawrie, Saladino and L. Garcia, that gives Robin a lot of different options for the lineup. Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought they went with 4 bench players & 7 pen arms for the majority of last year, right?

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Dec 23, 2015 -> 08:16 AM) Avi definitely has more trade value than La Roche. In fact there is a decent possibility of Avi being traded before they send him down to the farm. However, i just don't see the Sox risking another season having La Roche DH. Either they keep him on the bench as a backup to Abreu/ late inning defensive replacement or they release him and eat his entire contract. Another possibility is a team experiencing an injury to their 1B during ST and call for La Roche's services at a mega discount. One thing is for certain, they do not want La Roche as their DH and pretty much were open about it. Hahn indirectly said we need another RF as well. So either they move Avi to LF, send him to the farm or trade him away. Many questions will likely be answered within the next few weeks. I feel like Hahn has made it pretty clear he's not very comfortable with either at this point... Question is, can they afford to upgrade at both positions? Would love to see Upton/Cespedes signed, LaRoche traded for some relief & Parra signed to fill the other corner & Melky to DH, I'm just not sure they do that. Question is, are they better off with Avi in RF & Melky at DH or Melky in LF & LaRoche at DH if they sign one of the big three? I feel like to fully be "contenders", they need to add that big bat, so assuming they find a way to do that, do they deal Avi for pen help or deal LaRoche for salary relief? Like you said, we should know relatively soon. I just hope they are smart about it.

I think JB Shuck ends up being the 4th OF'er, which would mean Avi is either traded or sent down. If they end up keeping him up, then a platoon wouldn't be a bad idea. At this point, the Sox just need to get their OF'er (preferably Upton or Cespedes for me) & go from there.

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Dec 23, 2015 -> 07:57 AM) I think the game plan is to have Melky DH. I don't see La Roche being apart of this team come opening day. Hopefully Avi can learn a few things from Gordon come spring training. (If the Sox sign him) If the Sox go the Cespedes route, I can see them moving Avi to LF and have Cespedes play RF. I just don't see how they deal LaRoche for anything. If an offer of LaRoche & $8M in cash for a lower-level prospect didn't get it done, I don't think anything will. Judging by Hahn's comments, it sure looks like they don't want Avi starting out there. Plus he has another option. I think they hold on to LaRoche.

What this confirms is exactly what RaBBit has been saying. The Sox are in on these top OF'ers & are willing to give up that pick. With that being said, signing Gordon to anything longer than 4 years would be a massive White Sox move & I wouldn't be overly happy with it. He's a good player but close to 32 is not where I'd like to be at with a guy like him.

I'll be completely open & say, I'm not a fan of signing Gordon. Is he a good player? Yes. His age & limitations to LF don't really scream "smart signing" to me...

QUOTE (raBBit @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 12:57 PM) Did you hear about the offer to Tanaka? It's funny that people see how the market has changed over the past 3-5 years & say what you quoted. Teams make more & the price of players have gone up substantially. In the near future, the White Sox will spend on a big contract & this free agent market is the one to do it in if they are truly "all in".

I'm still amazed the Reds dealt Frazier for what they got... Worked out fantastically for the Sox but surprised the Dodgers didn't just get him & leave the Sox out.

I'm thankful for this forum though. This place not only keeps me entertained & informed but it also shows me that I'm not the only impatient one. Ha!