WBWSF

1) I read in todays Sun Times that the team is not expecting much in return for Frazier and Robertson after they're traded. You have to see how this plays out but I don't doubt that we will receive next to nothing for them. This only confirms to me that this isn't a rebuild. Its simply a salary dump by JR. I figure by Opening Day 2019 the team will have a payroll of somewhere around $30 million. Considering that the team grosses over $260 million every year, JR is looking at making more serious money. This team will be so bad by then I wouldn't be surprised to see the team have a Turn Back The Clock day with the players dressed in the uniforms of the St. Louis Browns.Hopefully sometime around 2019 this team will have new ownership in place to turn around this train wreck of a franchise. 2) I've always been a fan of Hawk Harrelson as a announcer. I wish this was his last season. It's time for him to go. One of his constant remarks the last 2 seasons is that JR is not going to let the Cubs take over the city. After this Quintana trade I wonder if he's going to use that same comment.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 15, 2017 -> 01:07 PM) Not a bad post, but in a debate, you would lose because of the Robert signing. That was a big-buck signing. I am sure it is easier for the owners to stomach a rebuild if they are saving money in the process. Your post is interesting as didn't the Miami Marlins do what you suggest after winning it all and they never really started spending money again, did they? But as far as this just being a salary dump. IF that was true and I don't think it is true (it is a nice part of the rebuild for the owners, though, making it less painful if they are making tons of $$$), then this rebuild would totally prove interesting. Cause if their sole purpose is lowest possible payroll, then as the young guys advance and make the minimum possible dollars, the Sox would have to dump all of the ones who pan out as they near free agency. Interesting post, but I think the Robert signing proves they want to win. Because they didn't have to get involved with him if they wanted to only reap huge profits. They still would be seen publicly as a team rebuilding step by step even without the Robert $$$s being spent. Another benefit of a low payroll is you have very little on the books in terms of long term contracts. Its easier to sell a team when you a team with a low payroll and no long term contracts on the books. When JR bought the team from Veeck in 1981 he walked into a situation with a low payroll and no long term contracts. Both of my sources tell me that JR will sell the White Sox within the next 2 years. There are at least 2 groups of people who want to buy the team. They will be buying a team with a low payroll and no long term contracts.

This is not a rebuild. Its simply a salary dump. The main objective is to have the White Sox with the lowest payroll in MLB in 2018 and 2019. When you have income of over $260 million a year and a payroll less than $50 million, you're looking at some enormous profits for the owners. JR did the same thing in 1998+1999. The team barely drew 1.3 million in attendance each of those years but they were 2 of the teams most profitable years with the low payrolls. If the so call rebuild works out, fine. Either way JR and his investors will be making some serious money. I realize that the White Sox are a business. The objective of any business is too make money.Still, I would rather have the team making money with a winning team than what we're going to be subjected to the next few years.

QUOTE (miracleon35th @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 08:02 PM) I spoke with several Sox and Cub fans around town today and to a man, every cub fan liked the trade and every so fan was madder than he11. Why make a trade that helps the cubs...in any way shape of form? Hahn had other alternatives. Hahn grew up a Cubs fan. The Quintana trade gets the Cubs into the 2017 Playoffs. I figure after a couple of years of 100 losses the White Sox will show Hahn the door. He will then be hired by Epstein working for the cubs.

Maybe 2021. Hopefully we have a new owner by then.

QUOTE (Sox-35th @ Jul 3, 2017 -> 02:13 PM) Complaining about the ballpark is a fruitless endeavor. You're never going to change that. Chicago won't fund another stadium for decades and the downsides associated with moving to the suburbs far outweigh the benefits. I don't agree with you about a new stadium. Just a couple of years ago the Village of Rosemont wanted to build a stadium for the Bad Guys on the Northside. The White Sox lease runs thru 2029. I feel in another 6-7 years we'll probably be hearing talk of a new stadium for the White Sox in the Chicago land area.

I was at the game yesterday. It looked like they had more than the announced crowd of 22,000. With the nice shirt giveaway I thought they would have a bigger crowd. The Yankees series didn't draw that well and this Texas series has averaged 20,000. Last year the White Sox drew 1.7 million. I wouldn't be surprised to see the attendance below 1.5 million this year. a shameful number for a franchise in a big market.

The organization must not think Engel fits into this rebuild. He has to be upset being demoted after playing well up here. Being replaced by Hansen has to be upsetting to him.

I realize that Rodon and Shields have been hurt and somebody has to start. Still, I can't remember a starting pitcher in recent White Sox history as bad as Covey. We're entering June and he has a ERA over 8.0. This simply can't continue, He has to be removed from the starting rotation.

All in all he seems to be doing a good job. You can't expect him to compete for the Playoffs this year considering the talent he has been given. You can't make chicken salad out of chicken s***.

Looking back at Dunns time with the White Sox has never been explained. Was he hurt? Did he lose his desire to play after signing a big long term contract? Didn't he like playing for the White Sox? Dunn was the first big free agent signing since Albert Belle. He didn't produce here. Nobody has ever figured it out.

Both Williams and Hahn have to shoulder the blame for the present situation the team is in. Unfortunately they are still running things. The only way that is going to change is if the team is sold. I still think JR is going to put the team up for sale during the 2018 season and we'll have a new owner going into the 2019 season.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Mar 16, 2017 -> 07:36 PM) If they lose 100 games in 2018 they will have have 2 awful trades with Sale and Eaton. Minus Quintana, Robertson. Cabrera and Frazier the team will easily lose over 100 games in 2018.

Hawk is not stupid. He realizes this is going to be a train wreck of a team for at least the next 2 seasons. It's not any fun being a announcer for a team thats going to lose 100 games a year for the next couple of seasons.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Mar 12, 2017 -> 10:05 AM) Good god dude, it's called a rebuild. They aren't trying to be cheap, there's simply no reason to waste money on a player who is unlikely to bring anything back meaningful come the trade deadline.I don't call it a rebuild. I call it having one of the lowest if not lowest payroll in MLB. I fully expect the team to be sold after the 2018 season. It's much easier to sell a team with a low payroll and no long term contracts on the books. That's how I see this. If anybody thinks JR cares about anything else but money, I think they're misreading him entirely. I could be wrong. Time will tell.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Mar 11, 2017 -> 10:11 PM) Disgraceful that the Sox didn't offer a similar deal earlier since we need a DH badly. The White Sox have no intention of signing anybody who adds to their payroll. The main objective for the organization is to have one of the lowest if not lowest payrolls entering the 2018 season. I figure their payroll next season (2018) will be around $50 million dollars. Forbes magazine said that the White Sox franchise gross about $250 million dollars. 2018 will be a very profitable year for JR even though it will be a disaster on the field.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Mar 11, 2017 -> 09:03 AM) The inability to re-up with Miller is a downstream impact of the continuing bottom-of-the-barrel attendance and TV ratings. The bottom-of-the-barrel attendance and TV ratings are the downstream impacts of the continuing losing by the teams brought to the fan base by Team Reinsdorf, Williams, & Hahn, with over a decade's worth of futility currently underway. Simple cases of cause and effect. The franchise in many ways has bottomed out, and now all that's left for Jerry, Kenny, & Rick to do in the waning years of the Reinsdorf ownership is to go through this rebuild business, and hope to dig the team out of the hole they dug for it. Do so in a way that they might still be able to enjoy whatever success emerges at the end of the rebuild, before it's finally "Bye! Bye!" to all three sometime in the near future once a new owner is in place. When you say that the franchise has bottomed out, I wish I could agree with you but I can't. One of my friends that works for the White Sox has told me that the team has a base attendance of 1.1 million.He doesn't think the team will ever draw less than that amount. If this team is as bad as I think it is AND if the 2018 White Sox are even worse than the 2017 White Sox I can see the franchise returning to the days of 1966-1971 when the team drew less than 1 million per year. Hope I'm wrong but I don't think I am.

QUOTE (ewokpelts @ Mar 11, 2017 -> 10:25 AM) And they are going all in on craft beer. They are doing something. No local team is doing. I actually think this is a smart move. It's only a 3 year deal, so hopefully they are in a spot where sponsors want to join in by 2020, the first year of the new tv deal. Losing somewhere between $7-$10 million dollars a year from Miller Beer advertising can't be a good thing or a smart move.

This is another low point in the JR ownership. The team can't get a major beer sponsor on their TV + Radio broadcasts. Some people have posted that the White Sox will receive a new TV deal in 2 years. I really wonder how much the team will get from that deal. The next 2 seasons are going to be brutal and I have to wonder if the team is going to get any big offers from any TV station.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Mar 10, 2017 -> 01:49 PM) They can't avoid the tax hit, it is coming sooner or later anyway. The franchise is worth 50 times what he paid for it, so he may only get $700M, but thats still a great investment that has grown at a much faster rate than inflation. Heck, the Marlins are rumored to have been sold for $1.5B, and I can't believe they would be worth any more than the White Sox. Taxes will never be a reason that a professional sports team is bought or sold. I think JR is on his way out, this is the second or third rumor about the team being for sale in the last six months. With Bud gone and his public opposition to Manfred, he has burned some bridges in some high places and has very few allies left in the leadership group. The other component of a rebuild that has not really been discussed is that it decreases operational expenses, which improves the bottom line, and makes the team more valuable if it were to be sold. Add to that the potential for a big splash with a new TV deal in two years, I think right now is the optimal time to sell. I feel like the Sox potential of a new TV deal will be worth more than the actual deal they get. You've touched on a subject that most people don't talk about. Assuming that Quintana, Frazier. Robertson and Cabrera will be gone before 2018, the 2018 White Sox payroll will be one of the lowest if not lowest in MLB. They will have no long term contracts on the books. When JR bought the team from Veeck in 1981 he bought a White Sox team with a low payroll and no long term contracts on the books. Forbes magazine said that the White Sox gross about $250 million dollars a year. The 2018 payroll should be around $50 million dollars. This points to me that JR will sell the team after the 2018 season. I wish he would sell the team now.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Mar 7, 2017 -> 05:30 PM) The White Sox should reprimand all scouts who had any say in acquiring Shields. As cheap as the Sox are, they sure throw away a lot of money due to bad decisions. Then why not let you pitch or Fathom or Caulfield? Just sign some independent league guys to make sure we lose. I can't imagine anybody with a brain paying money to go to any game Shields pitches at the Cell. Same with Holland for that matter. Why would you pay good money to see those stiffs pitch?? I can't believe those of you who love the draft trust our front office to draft impact player(s). There have been so many busts in the past or guys not worthy of being a No. 1 pick. Just look at the Sox history. The scouts who recommended Shields should be fired/ not reprimanded. They're probably the same scouts who recommended signing LaRoche and Keppinger. I've always found it interesting that the team acquired these 3 players and spent and wasted millions of dollars on them. But yet JR won't spend big money on a premier free agent like Cespedes. Their evaluations of players has been horrendous. The teams scouts can't seem to draft every day players and they recommend signing free agents who haven't produced.

Hope springs eternal but I would definitely think we are now entering into some real dark years for this team Not only is 2017 going to be a bad year, 2018 will be even worse. This team has 4 major holes, catcher, CF, RF, and DH. Plus they traded their best pitcher to Boston. Once Frazier, Cabrera, Robertson and Quintana are gone there will be more holes to fill. The team has nobody to fill those holes from the farm system. The farm is top heavy with pitching and doesn't have anybody who can step in and play in the every day lineup. I don't know how anybody can be optimistic about this team the next few years. I'm real curious to see what kind of attendance this team draws after a couple of 100 loss seasons. Between the years 1966-1971 the team didn't draw over a million people any of those years. I wonder if the attendance will mirror those years again.

Alvarez would definitely upgrade our DH. I'll believe the signing of him it when I see it. The team has no interest in signing anybody. One of the major objectives the next 2 seasons is to lower the payroll. As it stands now we probably have pitchers who can hit better than our DH.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Feb 25, 2017 -> 09:12 AM) How do you know the Sox have no interest in signing Robert? The White Sox haven't even scouted him. That kind of tells me they have no interest in him.