OmarComing25

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 07:38 PM) Only if they don't improve RF, DH, SS and possibly add a veteran starter and/or reliever...in other words, no significant additions from here until ST. Whether it's the 2004-2005 or pre-2008 additions (Danks/Ramirez/Quentin/Floyd/Linebrink/Dotel), the White Sox and now the Cubs have shown that it's always going to be an equal combination of smart trades and youth/development/talent evaluation that makes for a winning organization. Obviously being in a position to select Kris Bryant and having the Astros pass on him for Mark Appel helped. Their offensive future wouldn't look nearly so bright without both him and Schwarber, as Baez and Soler have been exposed to some extent. The Arrieta pick up was obviously huge as well. We don't have to upgrade all our holes, every team has holes. Saladino could realistically be between 1-2 WAR at SS, we can live with that assuming RF is upgraded, it's a heck of a lot better than all the negative WAR players we had this year. I'm fine with DH if we can find a platoon partner to limit LaRoche against LHP.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 06:03 PM) I can't believe Fernandez coming of TJ and a not so good recovery is going to get such a massive haul. I still think Sox, even with this trade, may be better with trading Quintana, faster. Next offseason the FA SP market is terrible, Quintana might fetch more then if you want to trade him.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 04:10 PM) There's also more of a hole in our theory of creating a "super pen" with Montas gone. Right now, our pen is average or maybe a tick above but certainly not an overall strength unless Nate Jones is 100% reliable. He Looked good last year (better tha expected, actually), but April and May is a different animal than meaningless games late in the season. Montas was not going to play a big role in next year's bullpen anyway. We weren't going to give up on him as a starter yet.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 04:02 PM) Fulmer for Baez straight up would be an awesome "challenge" trade. What is a "challenge" trade?

Getting Frazier also prevented the Indians from getting him, another benefit from this move.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 03:19 PM) What were our projections entering 2014 & 2015 (out of pure curiosity) vs. reality. Projections had us at 78-79 wins in 2015, so pretty close, but they were wrong about the process. Not sure where to find the Steamer projections but BP had us at 78 wins with 703 RS and 728 RA. So we gave up 30 fewer runs but scored 80 fewer runs. I couldn't find much for 2014, but I did find one projection that had us at 65 wins.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 02:46 PM) I highly disagree. Sox were going to offer Samardzija a huge extension before last season. Sox have 35 million coming off the books next season (LaRoche, Danks, Avila, Navarro), they can easily backload a deal to make it fit this season. Example, the SF Giants are paying Samardzija 8 million this year and 18+ after that. The OF available next offseason aren't great either, unless you want a 36-year-old Bautista. If we're going to upgrade there through FA then do it now.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 02:02 PM) With so many prospects involved there is no way to determine a winner in the trade until the prospects have had time to show what they can or cannot do. However, the Sox got their guy so that is an overall win for the team. That's one way to look at it. Another way to look at it is the current value of all those involved. The results-oriented view can be flawed. If the Angels traded Mike Trout tomorrow for some guy drafted in the 37th round, and Trout became crippled in a freak accident the next day, while the 37th rounder became a HOF, that was still a stupid trade.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 01:50 PM) No, he was 7th if you switch to the total UZR which is the counting stat. IF you do UZR/150 he was 48th with Bryant as 50th. But of course, in that case you've made the opposite error - including guys like Saladino who played there a month or less. Basically, if you count his defense as "Well above average" you wind up describing Bryant with the same word based on those numbers and that confuses me. No I just used qualified 3B, where he ranks 7th by UZR/150. Including guys like Saladino doesn't make a lot of sense because they didn't play enough to see if their defensive play was sustainable. Saladino, despite having only a third of the total innings at 3rd last season than the top guys, was tied for 4th among all 3B in the MLB by DRS with 12, which is a counting stat. He was ahead of Donaldson and 2 runs behind Machado. That's pretty incredible, and why he was worth 1.3 rWAR in just 68 games despite very little offense. However, I doubt that would have continued, otherwise he would go down as the best defensive 3B of all-time.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 01:42 PM) Same. And Guerrero, Hawkins, May, Engel. All guys we are excited about that have potential. Don't forget about my boy Eddy Alvarez.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 01:42 PM) Well yeah, of course if you filter to "last 4 years", but that's because you've now limited it to "guys who have been consistent over 4 years". And why shouldn't we use the larger sample size? Even if you just go by 2015 he was 7th. Bryant was 8th so it's not like UZR dislikes his defense.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 01:33 PM) I'm not sure if I'm just reading this wrong, but Frazier doesn't come through as "well above average" defensively in UZR. Normalized to playing 150 games, UZR/150, he put up a 7.5. Kris Bryant, who people keep wanting to move off of 3b, put up a 5.4. The "Well above average" people, like Beltre, Longoria, etc., all put up >10. http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=...0&sort=24,d Last 4 years Frazier's UZR/150 is 4th among all 3B, behind Arenado, Donaldson, and Machado. By DRS he's 6th. Whether you want to call that well above average is semantics, but regardless it's a pretty big upgrade from what we had (except for Saladino's superhuman DRS numbers at 3B this year).

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 01:30 PM) Minor league career OPS is .747. BUT HEY HE DID IT IN AUGUST SO THAT MAKES IT FACT GOING FORWARD

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 01:08 PM) Balta - I think someone mentioned right now, the Sox are 1st in the division in projected WAR (or maybe it was 2015 WAR). That is a stat you had always thrown about (and I believe they were 1st in the division in projected WAR prior to acquiring Frazier so I presume this will increase their margin). We all know teams are still rebuilding but you have touted on that stat a lot in the past about where the Sox fell short, but isn't that a pretty good indicator of where they are headed (vs. even last year where those projections didn't add up). They have significantly upgraded 3 positions thus far. If they are done, I'd argue it isn't enough (as the Royals seem to be undervalued through WAR and I presume they still have moves to make to fill out their roster). But this division is totally up for the taking. If the Royals resign Gordon that would restore them (as everything stands) as the favorites in my eyes, but they have some players who might be due for some regression. Twins & Tribe? Sure they could take steps forward but this division, with the Royals losing Cueto, Gordon (possibly), and Zobrist (along with all the assets that went with acquiring Cueto & Zobrist), they are much different than the team that won the series a year ago. http://www.fangraphs.com/depthcharts.aspx?position=Team Projected WAR now at 33.6, Cleveland is at 38.0, so 2nd in the ALC right now according to Fangraphs, but like you said the Royals are probably undervalued here, even though I think they've been considerably weakened.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 12:42 PM) I think it continues the "High spending, low impact, weak system" philosophy we've seen and failed with for the last decade. We'll get a fine player, but even when we dump a ton of money into a back loaded contract for an OF in a couple weeks, we'll still be FAR behind the teams at the top of the division that have developed their own guys, we'll still see the same failures, we have absolutely zero depth if anyone gets hurt, and even with the big spending OF we'll still have multiple major holes in the lineup. And no, I can't tell you which guy the White Sox acquire will underperform, or which guy will get hurt, but it's the same gamble as last year. Bet the house, no plans for what to do when things go wrong, ignore the fact that things do go wrong. Same story again and again. I disagree that we'd be FAR behind the teams in our division. What have the Twins done? The Royals lost a ton this offseason and got career years out of a few guys. The Indians should be better in 2016 than in 2015 but they're far from some juggernaut of a team. The Tigers still have little pitching. The AL Central is pretty wide open.

Apparently we should just never acquire another player ever again because they will inevitably suck once they put on a White Sox uniform. C'mon, there's not some kind of curse in our uniforms.

QUOTE (TitoMB @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 11:59 AM) Lol. This is the White Sox we're talking about. I fully expect Frazier to put up a .210/.280/.350 slash line or something. Career low for him, as is White Sox tradition. At some point a guy has to come in and perform to expectations, right?

I liked Montas here more than most, and I liked Trayce too, but I really like not giving up Anderson or Fulmer in the deal. However, my feelings on this move all depend on getting another OF.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 10:28 AM) For sure. Other teams offered him $200 million guaranteed though so he technically did turn down more money. True but he's taking a small gamble on himself to make a lot more, and if the gamble fails he will still make a ton of money.

QUOTE (shysocks @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 09:57 AM) I think - not sure, but I think - I had a major major detail spoiled on an unrelated subreddit yesterday, completely out of nowhere. So I'm also done with the internet for a bit. Yeah probably a good idea to avoid Reddit until you see it. The mods of several subreddits have been laying down bans left and right for spoilers, and it will only get worse.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 09:32 AM) You don't remember KW's can't spend $1 when you have fifty cents quote apparently? Where were you? I hate the way the franchise is being mismanaged and has become nearly irrelevant. Apparently you are in the dwindling minority that feels things are just great and no changes need to be made. Might as well go hang out with Chris Rongey in a luxury suite and sing kumbaya. So not endlessly b****ing and moaning means you just believe everything is rainbows and daisies?

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Dec 15, 2015 -> 08:41 PM) Prince had 1 bad year. Yes his contract is really bad, but the Rangers aren't dumping him for nothing. They are trying to win now and Prince will help them do that. Trading the farm for Hamels and then dumping Prince for our trash would be questionable at best. Nor should we be looking to absorb that contract either. Edit: The Tigers are still on the hook for $30M of Fielder's contract. So that means Texas has him at 5/$90M going forward. Which sounds about market value...he might even get more than that if he was a FA right now. So yeah, he's not getting traded for LaRoche. He put up an .841 OPS and still only accumulated 1.6 WAR. He would not get that much money as a DH on the free agent market, he'll be 32 next year, and does not have the type of body that ages well. 5/$90M going forward is a terrible contract that I want no part of, Tigers got lucky.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 15, 2015 -> 07:20 PM) Wouldn't it have been a lot better to have traded Robertson's relatively higher salary to the Yankees last July, gotten a prospect or two back, and then spent a lot less on K-Rod for this year? Even if we were able to trade Robertson for Puig+, which is dubious...you'd then have Nate Jones or Petricka as your closer and that's going to end up with so-so results at best. The Yankees claimed Robertson off waivers, we couldn't have gotten any prospects from them, only options were to pull him back or let him go and have them absorb the entire contract.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Dec 15, 2015 -> 09:07 AM) Melky and his .710 Ops = 7 hole hitter As for Frazier, if rents, low OBP and high K acquaint ion philosophy repeatedly fails, keep doing it until it work. League average K% is about 20%, and Frazier for his career is 21%, he's not a high K guy.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 15, 2015 -> 07:58 AM) Okay, since the AL Central is so wide open, why aren't we being linked to any of the big names recently? We've been linked to both Frazier and Upton recently. QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 15, 2015 -> 08:02 AM) Nobody would be jealous of the White Sox situation right now. I really do wish some days it was possible to change your favorite team but it's pretty much a lifetime commitment, through good times and bad. And the odds of the White Sox winning another World Series in my lifetime (while not great) are still infinitely higher than my alma mater the Univ of Iowa winning a national championship in fb or basketball. He's not saying the White Sox are in an envious position right now. There's also no rule that says you can't change to another team if being a White Sox fan is making you so miserable.