OmarComing25

Meh, Miller is overrated, his peripherals are not good, projected for an ERA over 4 by Steamer next year.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 06:27 PM) Would it be wrong for me to say that Sale is the most valuable pitching asset on the trade market when you factor in his age and salary/contract? http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/2015-trade-...-the-full-list/ Fangraphs has him as the #1 pitcher in trade value, followed by Archer, Cole, Gray, and Bumgarner. Quintana is the 14th pitcher on the list.

QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 08:52 PM) From sound of things, #WhiteSox don't intend to trade any of their top starting pitchers. Prospect arms or relievers likelier. https://twitter.com/CSNHayes/status/674057669011972096 Sounds like Hahn didn't like the offers on the table. I like it, there's no need to trade Quintana unless you get the right offer.

I stopped watching Homeland after season 2, is it worth picking up again? I didn't tune into season 3 because I heard bad things.

QUOTE (Chet Kincaid @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 02:36 PM) National League bats scare the hell out of me. Upton and Frazier could turn out to be American League busts. Yeah the Yankees should really think twice about signing Harper when he hits free agency in a few years because he could be an American League bust.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 02:30 PM) There's a thread dedicated to Winter Meetings Day1 It was closed

I'm on the fence here but while Cabrera would fit the patchwork mold, desperation move for 2016 that many are afraid of, I don't think a move for Upton would be the same, he'd be helping us for many seasons beyond next year. So even if you don't think the Sox will contend next year, Upton can still help in 2017-2019 when we'll presumably be in a better position to contend.

I agree, to me upgrading the defense is just as important as upgrading the offense.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 12:14 PM) You guys really struggle with the concept of no catch alls. What about moves like Cahill resigning with the Cubs? Doesn't feel like it deserves its own thread, but still worth a mention somewhere.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 11:29 AM) I think the biggest issue is that there are too many holes on this team. The foundation is not really in place to compete. They have some pretty high end pieces in Sale, Q, and Abreu, but the foundation that those stars rest upon is pretty weak. Which is entirely the reason I think that rebuild makes sense to build a solid foundation. Then you are ready to compete when Sale becomes a FA and you have the chance to sign him back to be the cherry on top of your playoff run. If your rebuilding plans include resigning Sale in free agency you might as well just trade him now.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 11:01 AM) J.P Morosi on MLB Network suggested if the Sox don't compete this year. Trade Sale and/or Quintana next off season when the FA market for starting pitchers is weak. I really think that is the best move if we were to move one of them. The second best FA pitcher next year is Brett freaking Anderson, Sale and Quintana will have 1 fewer year of control by then but the weak market should more than make up for that.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 10:47 AM) Their records are only one game difference and NW did not have to play OSU or MSU. Plus, their head to head game wasn't even close. I am also of the philosophy that as loss totals increase, records become less important in comparisons. Zero vs one loss - major importance, one vs two losses - high importance, beyond that, much less important. I agree, people in general are way too married to W-L records. Having one fewer loss doesn't mean you're automatically more deserving.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 10:22 AM) Never stopped the Sox before from rushing up a top prospect. If Saladino gets the job and struggles, Anderson is clearly next up. I'll take that bet. I'm 99% positive we won't be seeing Anderson this year.

Saladino right now is probably a 1 WAR player with his defense, a marginal improvement offensively could mean 2 WAR. We could do worse, let's upgrade our negative WAR positions first.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 08:52 AM) Jeff Passan ‏@JeffPassan 47m47 minutes ago How exorbitant is the price on Jose Fernandez? Sources say the Marlins have asked the Dodgers for Julio Urias and Corey Seager. Dodgers said no -- can't imagine Seager going anywhere for anyone -- but the sides have continued talking about plenty, including Fernandez. That's a fair price for Fernandez, I don't see that as exorbitant.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 6, 2015 -> 05:50 PM) Completely disagree with about everything in your post. OSU last year is definitely better than this MSU team but Bama is much much worse. Then Bama being favored by 9 points should be an easy bet for you.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Dec 6, 2015 -> 07:05 PM) Stay far away from 2 year rents with .660 2nd half OPS'. Will do nothing but set the Sox back. Enough damage was done last year with clowning like this. I don't want Frazier because the Reds will want way too much, but you might have the most recency bias of anyone on this board.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 6, 2015 -> 02:02 PM) Samardzija didn't "Collapse" though, as I said above he put up exactly the same fWAR he put up in 2013 and 2014. You can't be surprised by that! You can't be surprised when "Guy doesn't put up career year!" Eaton's defense was worse in 2015, but he produced more runs on offense and was a better baserunner, making him about the same player overall per game, and he played more games. And yes, you couldn't predict the collapse of LaRoche specifically, but if you sign 3 free agents, you should expect 1 of them to collapse. Maybe it would have been Cabrera, maybe Robertson, but 1 of them was going to fail badly. Especially if those 3 FAs are the mid-level guys where the risk seems to be the highest - for highest level FAs, sometimes teams just don't have the money to sign guys and they are legitimately outbid, but at the mid-level, every guy you sign is a guy the team could sign and they say "He's not worth it". Every guy we signed was a guy that their own team could have signed and they decided they had better places to spend their money. If you're counting on zero out of 3 of those guys to fail...your season will be a failure because at least one, maybe more than 1 will be disappointing or extremely bad. If "things that happen to everyone" are "terrible luck" when they happen to your team, the problem is your plan. You couldn't predict the specific things that happen...but you could absolutely predict "some bad things will happen". Maybe it's not a 36 year old hitting the wall at mid-season, it's a pitcher spraining an ankle or Chase Utley sliding into 2nd base against you. We built a team that needed nothing to go wrong whatsoever, then bet $120 million and traded away a bunch of players based on that bet. That's a sucker bet! QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 6, 2015 -> 02:28 PM) I'm genuinely surprised anyone wants him, but the lesson I'm going to learn from that is "the people playing the free agent market are even stupider than I think". Will you learn that lesson as well? However, the "shouldn't risk offering him the QO" is you again projecting your own prejudices. I agree that this year didn't come out of left field as some implied, but I think it's funny that you use fWAR only when it suits your argument, even in the same post/thread. You noted in an earlier thread about the consistent discrepancies between Samardzija's bWAR and fWAR, and have said multiple times that defense can't be blamed for his poor numbers. Yet now you're claiming his 2015 equaled his 2013 and 2012 production. However, in the very same thread, you're surprised that anyone would want him, even though he just put up a 2.7 WAR. Why wouldn't a team want a 2.7 WAR pitcher? What's wrong with his fWAR value now? Seems inconsistent.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Dec 6, 2015 -> 03:08 PM) Except that his defense assuredly will regress with age. Plus, just my opinion that that's an over-weight on defensive value, esp. as the Sox are trying to build a groundball staff. Not that OF defense isn't important, but it's nothing that the Sox are really in a position to pay a premium for. They can get competence for far less. Implying that offense doesn't regress with age?

I have no idea what to expect out of EJ this year. I could see him having a Gavin Floyd '08 type of year (high 3s ERA), and I could also see him in the 4.75-5 ERA range. But I'd like to find out.

QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Dec 6, 2015 -> 12:42 PM) Hate to say it but preventing a run is not as same as generating one. Saladino had 12 defensive runs saved at 3rd which is like tops in baseball at 3rd base. Sanchez had 6 defensive runs saved at 2nd. Unfortunately both helped the Sox have the worst offense in baseball at those position this year. If Heywards defense regresses then you don't have much of a player if his offense doesn't pick up. I have no idea what you're trying to say here. Saladino had a 61 wRC+ and Sanchez a 60 wRC+. That is horrible. Yet Saladino was worth 1.3 bWAR and Sanchez was worth 0.7 bWAR because of their defense. Heyward is a pretty good hitter, he has a 118 wRC+ for his career. That along with his elite defense makes him worth an elite contract. Saying that if his defense regresses he won't be good is like saying if Miguel Cabrera's offense regresses then he won't be much of a player.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 6, 2015 -> 11:38 AM) I feel like Hayward is going to have a career like Adrian Beltre. Some great offensive years, some .700 -.720 ops years, but always elite defense. Unsure if that's worth 200 million. Since his career year in 2004 with the Dodgers, Beltre has been worth on average 4.5 WAR per season. If Heyward gets 8 years/200 million, $25 million/year for 4.5 WAR/year would be well more than worth the value of that contract, teams would be ecstatic if Heyward had Beltre's career. And again that's not even including his 2004 season where he had 9.7 WAR.

Cespedes just had a career year, I'd rather not pay the price tag that comes along with it. Heyward will definitely be worth his contract, defense in general is still very underrated. Preventing a run is the same as generating one.

MSU hasn't impressed me all year, I think Bama wins by 10.

If we had not decided to go for it this year and hadn't signed Robertson, LaRoche, and Melky, would we have been big players in this FA market?