OmarComing25

The talent gap between Sale and the rest of our team is astounding.

QUOTE (glangon @ Jun 19, 2015 -> 10:25 AM) The sad thing is, I wouldn't be surprised if this happened. I wouldn't even be mad, that'd be amazing, and hopefully it would quicken Flowers' ticket out of town.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 08:16 PM) No, you're pigeonholing Kyle Schwarber because he's a Cub. If he were a Cardinal you wouldn't be doing that. I can't believe grown men can't leave emotion out of their sports fandom. Give it a rest. Did you miss the part where he said Schwarber was an excellent hitter that had immense value? If he were a Cardinal, there'd still be the same issue of position.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 08:10 PM) The White Sox also have to be last in the majors in terms of number of games they've taken the lead first... I can't remember now if it was 2005 or 2006, but we had that crazy stretch where we scored first 30+ games in a row. Those were the days. We scored first in the first 39 games of '05, that was awesome.

QUOTE (coco1997 @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 08:06 PM) Small sample size but all of the Cubs big name prospects have looked like winners so far. It really makes this organization look pathetically inadequate. Is it too much to ask for one position player to come through and contribute? Have to hope that Anderson can put it together.

Some Red Sox fan made this claim: "From what I understand, during this off season the Red Sox and the White Sox had a deal in place for Sale where Chicago basically were told to pick 6 prospects. This deal fell apart when the White Sox owner wanted to commit to winning now rather than later." Sounds like a load of BS. Any validity to this?

QUOTE (LDF @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 03:34 PM) i know that you are really thinking of something.... so this is on me, i can't figure out what you are driving at. I don't know what he's getting at either.

So is this Warriors team an all-time great team? How would they have fared against the 90s Bulls, the Spurs in Duncan's prime, Shaq and Kobe's Lakers? Hell even the 2012 Heat?

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 02:26 PM) And that's the problem. The Sox waste roster spots for players who are "Serviceable" in limited roles. The talent evaluators actually believe Carroll is a major league player. No wonder the team and org is so untalented. Heh, there are much better examples to point out how the Sox are poor talent evaluators than Scott Carroll. He's meant to be a spot starter/mop-up guy/long reliever, and he actually does fine in that role. It's not like the Sox believe he should actually be in the rotation.

QUOTE (Soxfest @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 02:22 PM) Need to see a lot more than this in the next couple of weeks. Who do you want to be DFA'ed?

If we lose today did that mean we got swept once or twice? I know it's the same team but technically it's two different series.

QUOTE (shysocks @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 02:14 PM) The Mariners correctly turned that trade down. Masterson and Reddick are the only guys on that list who were ever worth anything. If that's the type of package we're looking at in a Sale deal, we would NOT be better off trading him to plug all our holes. You take the best five of that list and you're barely plugging anything - your franchise is worse off. You've traded a YES! for a bunch of ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. Add the fact that right now, Sale has performed just as well as Felix had in 2010, and has a more attractive contract than what was in place for Felix. Can we all see why this will never happen? My god, it's ****ing ridiculous... Yep, seeing that list made my feelings go from NO to f*** NO.

http://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/...for_chris_sale/ Some perspective from fans of other teams.

KC has the second oldest team in baseball, we're actually 8th youngest (though I know that doesn't mean we're brimming with young talent). I know that doesn't tell the whole story obviously (because Perez, Hosmer, and Moustakas are still in their mid-20s), but that pitching staff is pretty old. I'm not sure they have such a bright future.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 01:06 PM) What's the point of having Chris Sale win a ton of games in the next few seasons for a team that is going to be older, more expensive, and weaker than the disastrous 2015 team? Why is it so important for us to get to 72 wins? Explain to me how this team has a path to being competitive with multiple bad contracts for players who will be aging and virtually nothing available in the minors to help over the next couple years and you'll convince me to hold onto Sale. I was in exactly your position last year saying "oh we can still wait even until 2016 with him and grow as a roster rather than trading him." Now I'm looking at this team as facing even more years of rebuilding after the 2015 disaster with virtually no hope for reinforcements over the next several years. Give me a path that actually could work over the next couple years and I'll get your point. Right now I don't see it. Minor league system is bare except for a couple starting pitchers, 5 positions in the lineup are disasters, even the talented guys we have in the OF in Eaton and Garcia are struggling. Who are the bad contracts? Alexei is up after this year and LaRoche and Danks are gone after next year. Even Melky is only 3 years. Robertson is a bit high but I wouldn't necessarily call it a bad contract. For next year it might make things a bit difficult but after 2016 I don't see anything that will hamper the franchise.

QUOTE (shysocks @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 01:00 PM) You're the one advocating, by admission, a sub-optimal move. The burden of proof isn't on me to tell you why it's a bad idea and give an alternative, but my alternative would start with not trading Sale. To the bolded, if you have a debacle, there's are all kinds of value in not turning it into a worse debacle. Exactly, and trading Sale for prospects could easily turn this into a worse debacle. As a comment I saw on reddit stated: "I'd rather have a guaranteed yearly Cy Young candidate than gamble on 5 top prospects - which could yield f***-all and could realistically end up yielding a group that develops into a decent position player, a 4th starter, a solid reliever and a 4th OF - a nice package but hardly worth a guy like Sale."

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 12:18 PM) "We want to invest in a full rebuild..." "No, we can't do that because the players we bring up suck (and will be worse than our current players), our minor league preparation sucks, we can't do anything but identify pitchers and Cubans in the first place." "Guess we have to keep investing in aging and expensive free agents and wait for their contracts to become albatrosses...to the point where we have to sell them off for 50 cents on the dollar." "Hmmm...." "Well, we've got Sale, Quintana, Rodon, Abreu, Robertson, Eaton, Garcia, Fulmer...how can you possibly blow up that core when you've got two superstars and possibly another along with two future All-Stars???" "Must be something missing from the equation. Gee, what could it be?" "Let's just ride things out with Flowers, Alexei, Danks, Sanchez, Cabrera....they can't be THIS bad forever. Look at the back of their baseball cards, those numbers mean something." "Look at our winning percentage and attendance since our annual second half collapse in 2010. That means something as well." Crickets. Cue soundtrack to "The Wheels on the Bus Go Round and Round" So what is the solution then? I don't envy Hahn.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 11:11 AM) I don't have any problem with what Hahn said. Worse mistake we can make is act in a panic mode. We have good players with proven track records who just haven't met expectations. Doesn't mean they won't. Hate to be in a rebuilding mode every year because we aren't undefeated I agree about the panic mode. Some fans want to blow it up but that would mean selling low on a lot of guys. I don't want another Nick Swisher scenario. You have to hope that some guys rebound before you trade them, though that ship unfortunately might have sailed already with Alexei.

QUOTE (LDF @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 11:58 AM) and you know this how??? Because Sale is a top 3 pitcher in a baseball and has a very team friendly contract, probably a top 3 contract in baseball as well. He's also only 26 years old and left-handed, and is under team control for 5 seasons including this one. You don't trade that for unproven minor leaguers, I don't care if they're all top 10 on BA's hot list. You need to get some proven major league talent for that kind of value, and at that point it becomes too much for other teams to give up.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 09:38 AM) Really? You want to see guys who hit worse than Carlos Sanchez? No I was thinking more along the lines of giving Erik Johnson a shot and giving Junior Guerra more innings. I don't really want to see Davidson strike out 50% of the time.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 09:51 AM) They are trading him so this is moot, but there is no way you trade Sale for just prospects. There would have to be a successful young cost controlled major league player or 2 coming back. Well right, you need guaranteed, proven major league talent if you're trading Sale, there's too much risk with just prospects, even if they're all top-20 guys.

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 09:47 AM) We're talking a teams top 3 or 4 prospects AT least. To be honest you can ask for any teams best player for Chris Sale because he is that damn good. But those top 3 or 4 prospects would have to be very good prospects, which limits the teams that could do it. Who would be willing to do it, and who are those players?

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 09:36 AM) Would you rather improve your overall team by trading away a great pitcher OR watch a losing team over the next 3-4 seasons with a really great pitcher? You can get a Kings Ransom if you trade Sale. What's an example of a Kings Ransom that a team would actually be willing to part with to get Sale?

QUOTE (shipps @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 09:26 AM) I love Sale but there is no way in hell the Cubs would be willing to part with those players. They are the absolute core players to the future of that teams lineup. Do you think they would want to trade those guys just so they can have Sale and be as bad as the Sox? Yeah, which is exactly why it doesn't make sense to trade Sale. To get equal value, teams are going to have give up a package that doesn't make sense for them. If the Astros wanted them, then they'd have to give us a big portion of their future as well.

I don't even know how to fix this mess at this point. I'm rooting for us to lose a bit more over the next couple weeks so the young guys get a chance to play and we can see what we have.