OmarComing25

Both Callis and Law said Torres was going to be Top 5 or Top 10 on their updated lists. i know he's farther off than the other guys but that kind of ranking puts him only a step down from the Benintendi/Swanson/Bregman group if not right there with them.

QUOTE (BRIRO2017 @ Dec 19, 2016 -> 02:06 PM) Q gets traded to a GOOD team, and he's their number 1? His numbers are going to be way worse. If you don't understand that concept you are clueless. Even if we give you the absurd premise that Quintana has faced "zero pressure", do you have any evidence that it's more difficult to put up numbers on a good team versus a bad team? Hell you could argue that it's actually more difficult to put up good numbers with no pressure because it's harder to keep the same motivation, and pitching on bad teams means having to pitch over more handicaps like poor catchers/defense behind you, both of which Q has had to deal with plenty.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Dec 16, 2016 -> 03:04 PM) Might be Top 2 after Q, Robertson, Jones, Jennings, Frazier and Melky are shipped. I'd be pretty disappointed if we weren't top 2 after all those players were moved.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 16, 2016 -> 02:09 PM) Do you know anywhere that accounts for this? Unfortunately I don't.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the author didn't discount present value. $20 million of surplus value 5 or 6 years from now is not as valuable as $20 million in surplus value in years 1 and 2.

I want the best talent too, but there's a reason TINSTAAPP is a saying, pitching prospects are a lot riskier. And if you're talking about rankings I believe pitching prospects are about equivalent in risk/value to position players ranked ~10 spots below them (there was an article on Fangraphs about this), so I'm willing to go further down the list if it means more position players at this point.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 13, 2016 -> 08:50 AM) Just because we traded him, lets not sell Eaton short...he has been a very good player for us. His best comparison would be a younger alex gordon in terms of good defense, solid hitting and on base skills with average pop, decent speed That amounts to a quality player. I wish him the best Yeah I understand why it happens but I don't want to root against/cut down players we trade away just so that we can say we won the trade. He might have just had a career year but Eaton is a damn fine player. I hope everyone we trade this offseason kills it with their new teams. Hell wherever Quintana goes is instantly going to be to be second favorite team.

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Dec 12, 2016 -> 07:40 PM) He gets on base but other than that he's a pretty unremarkable offensive player. I like Eaton and I think he'll do well in Washington, but he's been overrated by WAR. He didn't even have the highest OPS amongst Sox outfielders and he's never lived up to what his run game was advertised as. He's really more like Stephen Piscotty, Ender Inciarte, Logan Forsythe or Kole Calhoun than he is the absolute cream of the MLB crop. Those comps are pretty decent players though (no way top 15) and with Eaton's contract the Nationals will not be upset with him, but they aren't getting another 6.0 fWAR season on the backs of some pretty ridiculous throws from RF. To be fair I think you're underselling his run game. There's a lot more to baserunning than just stealing bases. So yeah he doesn't get a lot of steals but he's still an elite baserunner (Fangraphs ranks him 7th over the last two years in baserunning value). He's very good at getting that extra base.

Duffy is a flyball pitcher that gives up a lot of hard contact and saw his velocity decline this year as the season went on. It might actually be smart for the Royals to sell high on him. If his strikeout improvement doesn't hold he'll likely not be worth the price the Astros would need to get him. Quintana just makes too much sense. Pony up.

QUOTE (reiks12 @ Dec 12, 2016 -> 02:55 AM) This thread turned into a joke. +1 This thread went from positive/helpful to elitist garbage awfully quick.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 12:13 PM) This probably answers my question as I was not aware he had a projectable bat. He's talking about Collins, not Severino.

QUOTE (Heads22 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 10:46 PM) Don't get me wrong, I love Nate and I think he's awesome......but I don't think he has the trade value that we want to think he does. FWIW Dave Cameron thinks Jones should net a return similar to what Ken Giles got last year.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 11:26 PM) Anyone seen updated prospect rankings per team since the trades ? Curious to see where the White Sox are ranked now . Have to be Top 5 already. 4 in the top 50 (including #1 overall) and two more top 100 plus another on the verge. How many teams can match that?

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 09:49 PM) I see no way astros give up much, holding out hope that dodgers want Frazier and add Q. After the Hill signing I just don't see the Dodgers going after another SP. I know their rotation is injury-prone and risky, but they still have like 9 SP to choose from. They're probably set there.

Forget top 10, can anyone name 5 better farm systems right now? We could be tops easily when this is all done.

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 02:40 PM) Jesus christ, what's with the strawmen? Did I ever say they didn't value defense? I said a team isn't going to give up the farm for a guy whose WAR has been drastically inflated due to RF defense. Maybe if he was a plus defender at CF, C, or SS. No but you said defense wasn't one of the main factors for why Heyward got paid so much. You keep saying he was an established player, but his established offensive production up to that point wasn't enough to nearly justify the cost. So you're basically arguing the Cubs paid extra due to potential. Raw power doesn't mean anything if you can't hit the ball in the air consistently.

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 02:35 PM) As an established player, yes, I think the Cubs were willing to risk it. We just picked up a guy the Red Sox invested $62M in as a 20 year old (?) with no track record. So they didn't factor in defense at all? And how are the Heyward/Moncada situations comparable in the slightest?

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 02:23 PM) You're absolutely nuts if you think RF defense has become that valued. You're absolutely nuts if you think the Cubs gave Heyward $184 million because of his tools. Because his offense was nowhere good enough to justify it.

QUOTE (Deadpool @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 02:17 PM) It doesn't take much to understand that Eaton is a fraud and a locker room problem. Why do the White Sox want to move him? He's young enough to last a rebuild, right? So why move him? He's a sell high 6 WAR player and not someone the front office cares for. I never said the Sox shouldn't consider selling high on Eaton, I just didn't take you for one to buy into what was so obviously a fluff story.

QUOTE (Deadpool @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 02:13 PM) Have you actually read what happened? Do you remember how close the Cubs were to losing that game and the World Series? Are you seriously kidding me right now? I can't believe you're seriously trying to argue this.

QUOTE (kwolf68 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 10:40 AM) Seems to be the Nationals would be a perfect team to trade with for Q and even Robertson. The Nationals have about a 2 year window to go all in, the Sox are in rebuild now. The Nats have some intriguing prospects. The Nationals are also looking to take a flier on a closer (enter Robertson)....and Q + Robertson trade for ???? I think Giolitto and Robles would be the foundation of such a trade. I think the Nationals makes less sense than the Astros. Their 2-year window means Quintana's extra year of control isn't as valuable to them.

Man, if Quintana was underrated here, it would probably be even worse in Colorado with the Coors effect on his numbers.

Not sure paying those guys market value would even be worth it though. Hosmer is very inconsistent and has been replacement level two of the last three years. Cain is aging. Dyson and Escobar can't hit a lick. Duffy has never pitched more than 180 innings. Moustakas is decent but far from a star. They're not greatly valuable assets.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 07:28 AM) So, as of right now the White Sox have 4 players in the top 120. With 30 organizations, an average franchise should have - 4 players in the top 120. Not only that, the White Sox have 2 players in the top 25 and 1 player in the top 1 - both of which are actually above what an average team would have. I know, I feel dirty saying this too - but the White Sox are actually above average in their top 5 prospects. Substantially so. Their system is still not, IMO, a top 10 system, but it's much closer. They are still poor on depth after that top 5 of guys who should be strong big leaguers - they're above average in their top 5 but below average from 6-xxx, the legacy of the 10+ players they've given up to try to compete in 2015 and 2016. That should put them somewhere in the range of 12-18, I'm guessing closest to 12, with their exact spot depending on what you see when you actually line up system to system which no one pays me enough to spend the time doing. Probably not worth doing until all the dust settles and we see who else is traded. Hopefully we end up Top 5 after it's all said and done.

Of course if Moncada busts we lose the trade, but that was the case if we got a Bregman/Turner/Swanson and they busted too, so that's not really saying much.