OmarComing25

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 05:39 PM) Doesn't make the trade a bad one. Thome performed here. There was a chance Gio wouldn't develop the way he did being a prospect. Edit: if you want to argue a bad Gio Gonzalez trade at least make it the Nick Swisher one for f*** sake. Sox also don't make the playoffs with Gio instead of Thome in 2008.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 04:01 PM) I think his take is a lot more realistic than what has been proposed here. You are going to have to get at least one pitcher back in a deal, Rodriguez and Owens are the most likely given their talent level and proximity to the majors. Kopech is a big risk given his meth use and off the field antics. He actually wrote that a package centered around Rodriguez might be too much for Sale, because Rodriguez might end up as good as Sale. That's a realistic take?

QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 01:26 PM) You are right. Especially after what he has done this year I'd be ecstatic. He was 25th in MLB OPS last year. Let's throw a party. "It would be unreasonable to be disappointed" = "Let's throw a party". Got it.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 03:20 PM) NVM don't bother that is perhaps the worst article I've read on the subject. They might have to deal Eduardo Rodriguez, but aren't sure, since Erodriguez might be as good as Sale anyway. Yeah I don't even know what word to use to describe that article it was so bad.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 02:56 PM) That's basically it. So the question is, do they take $100 million on Monday afternoon? I don't think they should, either a team overpays or you keep him. Fair value for Sale is not enough to make it worthwhile. Which is why it's probably not going to happen.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 01:19 PM) Yeah, I mean I get how one could reach that conclusion, but I think you've got to ascribe a bit more value to Sale's consistency over the last several years versus Betts relative "newness" to this level of performance. I mean he's not some rookie. He now has over 1300 PA of 5 WAR caliber play. He's dirt cheap and he has an extra year of control versus Sale. Over the last season and a half he's been worth 9 WAR. He's really freaking good and he's still just 23.

QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 01:00 PM) I agree everyone would be "fine." Why the quotes? It would be unreasonable to be disappointed in Abreu if he put up another .290/.347/.502 season.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 01:06 PM) I really do not believe that. It's just one writer's opinion, but Dave Cameron in his annual trade value piece put Sale at #15 and Betts at #7. I can definitely see the logic in it, either way it's doubtful that Boston would trade Betts straight up for Sale, let alone add additional pieces. And a straight up Sale for Betts trade would be pointless on our end even if Boston was willing to do it.

QUOTE (SCCWS @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 12:44 PM) That is an awful trade for Sale. None are close to being MLB proven. Moancada is a great hitting prospect who is in AA learning to play 2nd base because it is the only infield position he seems able to learn. Obviously Pedroia is in front of him for many years. Red Sox think he will ultimately move to the outfield( but he would be blocked again if Benintendi is legit) or more likely replace Ortiz as a DH. Swihart is on 60 day DL. Red Sox felt his defense was not ML quality and sent him back to AAA to learn left field. Again, he is blocked at majors level if Benintendi is ready next year. I think there is no way you trade sale unless Betts( Bradley is probably untouchable) is included. Doubt Red Sox trade Betts unless next winter if they do not win it all. No clue what Q would get. Maybe this package for Q and hope Moancada can learn 2nd and Swihart LF at AAA next year and Benintendi can jump to outfield next year. FYIW---Per CBS, Peter Gammons who used to be very connected to Red Sox but not sure any more said Moancada, Ben. and Devers are not being traded. Maybe Dombrowski is posturing but............................ Betts >> Bradley and has more value than Sale by himself, so not sure why Bradley is the untouchable one and Betts isn't.

QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 12:22 PM) You are hilarious. Already defending the front office for what they may or may not do. He's not wrong in that there will be people criticizing the front office no matter what happens. I can't wait to read all the posts about all the great packages the Sox delusionally passed up if/when Sale isn't traded this week.

QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 12:51 PM) hold up now. are we really comparing Abreu to Frank Thomas? LOL. Abreu could be 37 years old for all we know. He's had one good year in the majors. Expecting him to repeat 2014 looks less and less likely with every passing month. 2015 was also a good year, let's not sell him short. I think everyone would be fine if he could repeat last years' numbers.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Jul 27, 2016 -> 01:33 PM) Profar, Mazara, Tate and whomever else Texas chose to throw in for Quintana wouldn't get it done for you? I don't think Texas would do that right now with all the injuries they've had, it's not like they're lighting it up offensively lately. No way they trade a starting OF plus another major part of their major-league roster in the middle of a playoff push. And again I don't see why Profar makes any sense at all, he has less control remaining than Quintana. Tate has already gone on the DL this year and has mediocre numbers all around in low-A, he's not even a top 100 prospect anymore (looking at BA's midseason list).

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jul 27, 2016 -> 01:13 PM) OK. You realize that Moncada is not a sure thing either though, right? Profar is starting to live up to the hype that made him the #1 prospect, is still only 23, and is a major league ready player. Pulling him and Mazara both would give you two guaranteed ML level players. Moncada is just as likely to struggle when he gets to the majors as Profar was and you may be able to get Moncada for Profar at some point when he starts to struggle. Profar was already in majors by the time he was Moncadas age and put up better numbers in AA when he was two years younger. He has a 96 wRC+ with a .115 ISO and his exit velocity is well below-average. He's hitting .203/.288/.254 in July, so it's not like he's trending upwards. How is that living up to the hype? Small sample size but defensive metrics haven't really liked him either.

QUOTE (kevo880 @ Jul 27, 2016 -> 01:11 PM) He would arguably be the top FA pitcher this offseason though if he finishes out the season strong. Could lock up similar money to what he's making now for longer than just the next 2 years. He'll be 35 next season, no chance, especially if he doesn't significantly improve his peripherals.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 27, 2016 -> 01:03 PM) I want the same thing as you guys do, but I really don't think the Red Sox are giving up both Moncada and Benintendi on top of several other top 100 prospects. Everyone agrees it's too much. "WELL THEN THEY DON'T GET SALE. SIMPLE AS THAT." Exactly. There are many other options on the market. They aren't as good as Sale, but if the cost is too high, they'll settle for less. And that's fine -- I want to keep Sale personally -- but my point is this: we aren't getting Moncada and Benintendi, so don't let your heart move that direction. The people saying they want Moncada/Benintendi plus a bunch of other legit prospects are crazy, but Sale for those two plus a lottery ticket should be doable, and if Boston says no then just keep him.

QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Jul 27, 2016 -> 12:31 PM) That's still no guaranteed that Sale or Quintana will bring you anything more significant in return. Why wait when everything right now, today, is practically tailor made for us to receive a haul for Q or Sale. That perceived sellers market pre-2017 only widens the options for teams, who may not feel the need to unload top talent. Remember, before the season many have World Series hopes and play the "on paper" W-L game. While that may widen the number of suitors, everyone is assembling their rosters based on projections and talent rich teams like the Dodgers for instance are not going to assume Kershaw will be injured again. Boston and Texas will not have the urgency in the offseason because they'll make trades for lesser talent whose projections they're comfortable with. Hell, even now we're fortunate to have lesser pitchers like Rich Hill with lingering issues or else he's be snatched up I really believe we'll regret having not taken advantage of this moment in time. If they're not traded now, they won't be traded in the offseason. If someone cannot take advantage of a perfect opportunity now, then they're either too scared or too stubborn to do it and half a year won't change their mind. They'll be a bunch of excuses (as there always are) and ultimately we'll be right where we are right now. The thing is, I'm not really interested in any package Texas could put together, and the Dodgers don't really have the position player prospects that we need (despite how great Urias and De Leon are). The only team I'm really interested in dealing with if I'm trading Sale is Boston and since some writers think they'd be unwilling to include both Moncada and Benintendi in a potential deal then it might make sense to hold on to him until the offseason, when they might be more willing or other teams could jump in. If the right deal isn't there don't do it just to do it. But I'm sure you'll act like they could have had Boston's entire farm system if Sale or Quintana is not traded this week.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jul 27, 2016 -> 12:43 PM) Thats four years from now. IF he continues his current trajectory you can spin him for more prospects in that time. The guy was what Moncada is now, the #1 prospect in baseball, a switch hitting 19 year old middle IF with 5 tool potential (except much better defensively) - though with injuries setting him back the last couple of seasons he has been delayed in his development. He is shaking the rust off and now would be a good time to try and buy low and hope he takes off. He has the exact same years remaining as Sale and hasn't broke out yet. If he had already broken out, then it would make more sense. But right now he's far from a sure thing and you can't afford to be patient with him given his years remaining. Not sure how trading Sale or Quintana for him would be buying low either.

QUOTE (Buehrlesque @ Jul 27, 2016 -> 12:23 PM) I don't buy that. I think Boston would include both, but the Sox are asking for even more than that (Betts, etc.). If Boston isn't willing to include both those prospects from the get go, there's really no conversations about Sale to be had. I agree, there's no way Betts or Bogaerts is going anywhere, but if Boston isn't willing to include both Moncada and Benintendi for Sale they can get bent. Otherwise there really isn't a package that makes it worth it.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 27, 2016 -> 12:03 PM) We actually kinda do, because we can see how the FA market shapes up. Pre-2017 it is terrible, perhaps the worst FA market in decades. Literally everyone but Cespedes who would deserve big money is under contract. Josh Reddick has a shot at $100 million because if your revenue grew this year there's literally no where to spend it. That means, if your team is thinking that they can make one last run in 2017...you better be prepared to pay a fortune. Since the FA market is that bad, you can also expect the trade market to be an incredible seller's market because everyone will be buying from any team willing to part with their guys. In the 2018 offseason that's going to turn around. It will be the biggest free agent period we'll ever see. The Yankees will have cleared $100 million from their payroll compared to this season by then. Counting guys who got opt-out clauses like last year, it's going to be an absolute bonanza. Bryce Harper will set the market with whatever he gets from the Yankees, but then it will seem like everyone is out on the market. Cespedes will be the best FA on the market in 2017 and he wouldn't be in the top 10 in 2018. It'll wind up somewhat like last offseason, but perhaps worse - there will be a number of guys available to fill slots as free agents that teams just don't want to spend money on. If you're trying to rebuild that year by selling players, you're going to run into a buyer's market. Teams that want to rebuild at that time, who have hit a wall - they're going to find they're SOL if they try to sell that offseason because why give up prospects when you can just give up money? That's the offseason after the 2018 season, not before it, makes a big difference. The offseason after next year will still be terrible for buying free agents. The bonanza is still three offseasons away, and who knows who will be locked up/declined by then.

Dave Cameron has a Fangraphs chat today, and I submitted this question: "If the Red Sox were willing to include both Moncada and Benintendi for Sale, do you think the White Sox would make the trade?" His answer: "Yes. But I don't think Boston would do that."

QUOTE (TheTruth05 @ Jul 27, 2016 -> 10:29 AM) Which is why trading 1 of Sale or Quintana is optimal at this point. Keep an ace and fill the teams needs for young bats with one them. With that said, no rush, pitching market is gonna suck for a while. Wait for the overpay, it will come. I agree. A rebuild doesn't need to be a total teardown. If you can get someone to get desperate and overpay for Sale or Q, then you could potentially speed up the rebuild by a couple seasons and eliminate the need to sell off EVERYBODY (instead of 2020 you could look towards 2018). But that means we absolutely need to nail this trade.

QUOTE (QuickJones81 @ Jul 27, 2016 -> 08:35 AM) Why? To have a mediocre record and lesser draft picks while your young talent grows in the minors? If you're rebuilding let the majors squad be a full on dumpster fire, being mediocre is much worse because you're always spinning your wheels. Do you really think if we trade off everyone except a couple guys that the team will be mediocre? You need someone to build the team around, otherwise you're just going to be rebuilding forever.

Why are people so high on Profar anyway? He has just three years of control, and it's not like he's lit the world on fire so far, he's been a league-average hitter. His minor league numbers are just OK too. What am I missing? Is it just the positional versatility?

I honestly have no idea who the AL Cy Young favorite is right now, there's no standout this year. There's 6-7 guys who are basically equal right now.

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Jul 27, 2016 -> 07:39 AM) My prediction based on what I have seen with this team: 1) They will trade veterans: Robertson, Melky, Frazier and Lawrie. This will piss off Sale even more. 2) Robin Ventura leaves on his 'own accord' at season end since his contract runs out. 3) Hahn/KW stay. (Because JR is loyal and delusional) 4) Sale continues to throw management under the bus and will get traded this winter. 5) They keep Q, Eaton and Abreu to 'build a new young core around' instead of rebuilding properly. "Rebuilding properly" doesn't mean selling off everyone who has any kind of value, you need to keep someone around.