COACH612

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Aug 22, 2016 -> 09:56 PM) I don't agree. Making the playoffs even if you get blown out in the Wild Card game to say nothing of if you advance further along, still means you had a good enough season to actually get there. To me it beats going to the golf course the first week of October because the team fell flat on their faces yet again. Mark Here is where we will agree to disagree. In my opinion, unless a team wins the whole thing, all you did was play some more games than everyone else who did not make the playoffs. No one cares who lost the World Series.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Aug 18, 2016 -> 08:42 PM) I take it all back. He's back to playing for 1 run, knowing Beck is coming in. Indicates limited understanding and ability. Sadly, though, there are greater problems. And on edit, after Ventura makes the affirmative decision to play for one run in the 7th, the Sox, unsurprisingly, lose by 1 run. Did not see the game last night. What happened?

Considering how the Sox have done since 2005, is there any downside in having Scioscia? Let's see. No playoffs. Crappy play. Losing fan base. Under 500 for several years and counting I don't think so. It couldn't get any worse.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 18, 2016 -> 12:01 PM) Hard to say. Since we're flailing away under .500 yet again, with a future HoF...we need to poach Mike Scioscia away from the Angels or extend Ventura's contract another 2-3 years. After all, he's the one who mentored Maddon and is dearly in need of a change of scenery...and the White Sox are dearly in need of a real general, not one who fills out a Myers Briggs survey and impresses KW. Really, it makes perfect financial sense. That, some duct tape and baling wire buys the Sox another offseason before the fans completely turn on the organization. Instead of the next Bonifacio or Duke, it's much easier to sell the stabilizing influence of Scioscia. Plus those two managers in the same town! I like the idea of Scioscia. You have my vote.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 18, 2016 -> 11:52 AM) What would the White Sox record be with the "proper" manager? There may be no need for a rebuild. The roster coming out of spring training was geared for the WS to compete for the division. The pieces were in place but a few tweaks may have been needed. Was that Ventura's fault? No. That's on management for not getting better pieces. My point is the right manager can bring out the best in some (not all) players. Ventura seemed to learn along the way but needs to show some sort of pulse. Could he become a better manager? Absolutely, but hopefully his tenure with the Sox will come to a close shortly.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 18, 2016 -> 09:01 AM) But you are blaming it on the manager, so there currently are 30 managers you would have a problem with. If you look at successful teams, they hunger to win. Part of that comes from the manager who states early on with players they better play the game the right way. They are not my teams so if that is the way they want to play, that's their problem. As i have said in previous posts, I coach a certain age group and have a very successful record. Part of that is I tell the players what I expect from them and if they don't they don't play. It's really that simple. What I have a problem with is paying my hard earned money to see players who don't hustle and/or play the game correctly and then complain about not winning. I don't want to pay to see grown men who play a kid's game get paid a lot of money and then not play hard. I, am by no means, condemning the whole team but come on, now, it would be nice to see Ventura and management have a pulse and the stones to send a message. I can watch the same crappy baseball on tv for free with beers costing a lot less but if you are ok with it, go right ahead. It appears you and I will not agree on certain things. I respect your opinion.l

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 18, 2016 -> 08:53 AM) If it happened, it isn't a chronic problem that happened any more often than it does with any other team. When Austin Jackson was out there, the Sox OF defense was really good. I would imagine the White Sox are pretty highly ranked in OF assists this season. They haven't won enough games, but it isn't because of throwing to the wrong base or lack of effort . Beside, I am not concerned about other teams.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 18, 2016 -> 08:53 AM) If it happened, it isn't a chronic problem that happened any more often than it does with any other team. When Austin Jackson was out there, the Sox OF defense was really good. I would imagine the White Sox are pretty highly ranked in OF assists this season. They haven't won enough games, but it isn't because of throwing to the wrong base or lack of effort . Is jogging to 1st base ok with you then?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 18, 2016 -> 08:40 AM) Robin is in his final month and a half as a White Sox manager, but let's not make things up. This team gives full effort. They have come back from being down many times, including last night. And I don't know how anyone can say they are throwing to the wrong base this season. That's just untrue. Oh Dickie, I have seen a few times during the season where the outfielder was trying to get the out at home with no chance. Not even close. But in the meantime, the runner advances to 2nd. That's called throwing to the wrong base and not knowing the situation. Sorry to burst your bubble.

The Sox woes this year are not entirely Robin's fault. They have had their fair share of injuries. However, as I have said, more than a few on the team seem to not play with 100% effort. And let us not forget the lack of fundamentals from bad base running to throwing to the wrong base. I have also seen players jogging to 1st base on routine grounders. Sure, this is the big league and will be normally out, but hustle puts pressure on the other team to make the play. All it takes is hustle to try and beat the throw. If the player is safe, that is a potential run. If a player does not hustle, he shows he does not care. That to me is unacceptable at any level. This part is on Robin and management for not promoting effort is everything. Bottom line, winning baseball starts with a winning attitude.

QUOTE (Tex @ Aug 3, 2016 -> 06:35 PM) 39 if the home team is winning. Do you notice as a coach you become more sensitive to different things. Effort is one of those. I meant to say 39. My typing was off. Thanks.

Since we all agree this season, just like the last several has just about hit rock bottom. The only thing left to go wrong is the bat boy breaking a leg running to give the umpire more baseballs.

QUOTE (Iwritecode @ Aug 3, 2016 -> 09:42 AM) I can't imagine how much more difficult it is having to get 6 outs every inning... 21 outs per side equals 42 outs or 41 if home team is ahead.

Tex, As I said above, I love baseball. I even sometimes watch other teams on tv who I don't even care who wins or loses. What pains me the most though is the lack of heart that seems to be present on the WS. I don't see good fundamental baseball from not backing up, poor base running and lack of hustle on even routine grounders. I can live with the loses if I see them playing to win but just fall short in the runs column. I also said I am a coach. One thing I always tell my players is if you can go home and look yourself in the mirror and tell yourself you played with 100% effort today, you had a good day. I tell them to play hard for all 42 outs (7 innings in high school) and the wins will come. Not all the time but they will come more times if the effort is there. I just don't see 100% effort from all the players who get paid a lot of money to play a kid's game.

I love baseball. It's in my blood so much I even coach high school ball. I became a WS fan years ago. With that said, I watch the games whenever I can. I use to do my chores around the games but not as much anymore. Their losing playing makes me pause as to why I spend so much time watching players who get paid tons of money and can't even hit the damn ball or hustle. Or the Sox sign players who magically forget how to play good baseball. Just the other night, I saw the other team's runner steal 2nd and score all on the same play. Why? Because the CF for the Sox did not charge to back up the throw, Anderson made a half asses attempt to block the bad throw and the catcher also made a half assed attempt to tag the runner. The ball popped out of his glove. If he had done it correctly, you catch the ball and cover with your other hand to prevent the ball from popping out. These little things add up to big things and have not been addressed for years. Last night Saladino was playing 2nd and just needed to knock the ball down to his left, pick up the ball and throw to 1st to get the out. He made a half attempt to do so and it resulted in 2 runs scoring. It's this kind of lazy play that allows me to get more chores done. And the front office wants to know why we fans don't come out and pay hard earned money to see games? Why pay when I can see it on tv for free with beer costing less than half.

if you enjoy baseball and the White Sox you watch. The problem I have is watching baseball and watching the White Sox are not necessarily the same thing.

QUOTE (winninguglyin83 @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 10:25 PM) if you enjoy baseball and the White Sox you watch. You always watch. It's what you do. But for individual reasons? Is Tilson a legit prospect? Can Anderson learn to manage the strike zone? Will Rodon turn it around? Is Fulmer going to figure it out or need more seasoning? Will Abreu become Abreu again? Is Lawrie a useful piece? Plenty of reasons to stay tuned.

QUOTE (FT35 @ Jul 19, 2016 -> 09:27 AM) It's all good! I was watching. During the game, there will be ups and downs--Sale was struggling a bit but still getting outs with other pitches. I don't hate your philosophy--not upset at all that you disagree and I respect your thoughts. I'm just passionate about this particular situation because I'm old school when it comes to letting your starter finish the game when he's been dominant. Even more so when it's your ace, and even more so when it's the best ace in the league. I think managers baby their pitchers and it drives me crazy. Bring Robertson in to close out a fading Rodon. Leave Sale alone. The only way you take him out is if Sale requests it. I bet you a crisp dollar that Sale believed with his whole heart that he could finish that game--even with fading stuff. It would take an injury for him to want out. Fatigue means nothing to a champion. He knows his body better than anyone. Jordan took the last shot of the game because there was no better option in the world to take that shot--even if he was tired. He had likely taken 20 other shots before the last, and he was probably tired, but if you had told him he was going to sit out the last shot so Toni Kukoc could do HIS job and score, he would have walked off the court. The most important aspect of that is that PHIL JACKSON KNEW THAT. Phil Jackson LET Jordan be the champion that he was. He didn't take the ball from him BEFORE the winning shot. Robin simply doesn't think like a champion so therefore none of his players are allowed to be champions. The decisions that MAKE champions are taken away from them and passed on to other people when the game is on the line. Sale's arm is worth $20M+ when he's using it to throw a baseball every 5 days--not when he's resting it peacefully on the bench with the game on the line--after only throwing 100 pitches through 8 dominant shut out innings--while another guy finishes HIS GAME. All the respect in the world for my fellow Sox fans...even a big fan of Rock Raines! But this aint gonna change my mind! I agree with you 100%. True champions want to finish. Robin can never understand that.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 19, 2016 -> 07:42 AM) He barely escaped the 8th and lost all control. You pay a closer to close, and he didnt. But it was still his to lose. Great pitchers can overcome and find the form.

QUOTE (FT35 @ Jul 19, 2016 -> 07:25 AM) Agree Robertson has been great for us. My problem is more that Robin babies Sale. This happened in a game last year (against Cleveland I believe) where Sale was dominant and had his unhittable stuff going, then Robin pulled him for some reason going into the 9th. Tonight Sale was at the 100 pitch mark through 8 innings of 1 HIT ball--a clip of about 13 pitches per inning. The next 4 hitters due up were 1 for 10 on the night against him. I understand being mindful of Sale's pitches, but as long as the game is still in doubt, you run your ACE out for the 9th. He's going for a 1-hit shutout--you run him out to at LEAST start the 9th. Do you think Baumgarner gets pulled in that situation? Kershaw? Cueto? No. They finish what they started even if it means throwing a few extra DOMINANT pitches. He's thrown 118 this year, 119, 113...he's your ace for crying out loud. If you get burned, so be it, but you have to learn from it. Robin just plain repeats the process and makes the same mistakes over and over and watches these types of games get blown up. Robertson shouldn't have been in that situation. That was Sales masterpiece to finish, but daddy came in and took his paint brush away so he could get a bath in before bed. Makes me sick. These guys are GROWN MEN. Agreed. This game was Sale's to lose. Let him have the CG. Even if he throws 120 pitches, will it make a difference? Robin did the samething to Sale a few weeks ago and I hated it.

And Reinsdorf wonders why we don't come out and pay harded earned money to fill the stands? For what purpose? I still love watching the Sox but if I can watch at home for free, why pay to see the same crappy game?

Can we trade Ventura for 2 Hooter girls? They would be more entertaining than watching the Sox struggle offensively for another year.

Hawk has a lot information to give but my only complaint about him is he never shuts up. I realize he is there to speak but he should have realized after all these years, sometimes a little silence is a good thing.

Unless I am mistaken, the Cards seem to be in the mix every year. They develop within. How hard would it be for the WS to do that? Maybe the firing needs to not be all Ventura, but with the talent scouts and the minor league coaches.

Can Steve Stone still pitch?