COACH612

QUOTE (BrianAnderson @ Oct 8, 2015 -> 09:19 AM) It's amazing reading some of the ideas and comments on here sometimes because I have to stop and say ---- these are the fans that watch the most games. These are the fans posting in the offseason, after the Sox finished another woeful year. Which leads me to believe that we are the fans most attentive to the game. But then I hear these crazy ideas like Avi at 3B or Shuck to DH while keeping Avi in the OF. It baffles my mind. It is also why it's so hard to deal with actual casual baseball fans. Because it's like even 5 steps below this level. That is all. Just had to get that off my chest. You all missed my point so for the last time I will say it again. I never, and I mean never, said Shuck should be the full time DH. But my point was since LaRoche was an automatic out, why not try to shake things up by having Shuck try it. Yes, I know he is a decent OF but for those days he isn't, why not try him in the DH spot. After all, what could happen? The Sox could lose more games and drop to 5th place? So what, they get better draft picks. Now I am done with your assessments since none of us would have known the outcome. Everyone is a freakin genius in hindsight.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Oct 8, 2015 -> 07:58 AM) You don't put a decent defensive OF at DH when you have two other outfielders who play bad defense. But he doesn't play OF every day so put him in the DH when he's not.

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Oct 7, 2015 -> 02:34 PM) Shuck at DH lol That's one of the dumbest f***ing things I've heard. Here's whats wrong with your statement. For one thing, you don't even mention an alternative. The second thing is the 2015 Sox did not have a good enough DH but they kept putting LaRoche into that role. So putting Shuck into that role after the break would not have produced anything worse. So why not shake it up some and see what happens because for the most part, LaRoche was an automatic out anyways.

For all those that think Shuck should definately NOT BE A FULL TIME DH, here are his stats. Although he has not been a full timer, his stats speak volumes about whether he should have been over LaRoche. Especially when the Sox were still in the wild card race and LaRoche could not hit a stationary ball much less a pitched one. SHUCK'S STATS Year Age Tm Lg G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS OPS+ TB GDP HBP SH SF s 2011 24 HOU NL 37 92 81 9 22 2 1 0 3 2 0 11 7 .272 .359 .321 .680 91 26 3 0 0 0 1 2013 26 LAA AL 129 478 437 60 128 20 3 2 39 8 4 27 54 .293 .331 .366 .697 98 160 10 1 6 7 0 2014 27 TOT AL 38 114 110 12 16 1 0 2 9 2 0 3 12 .145 .168 .209 .377 8 23 1 0 1 0 1 2014 27 LAA AL 22 88 84 10 14 1 0 2 9 2 0 3 11 .167 .195 .250 .445 28 21 0 0 1 0 1 2014 27 CLE AL 16 26 26 2 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 .077 .077 .077 .154 -57 2 1 0 0 0 0 2015 28 CHW AL 79 165 143 15 38 8 2 0 15 7 5 16 16 .266 .340 .350 .689 95 50 2 1 3 2 0 4 Yrs 283 849 771 96 204 31 6 4 66 19 9 57 89 .265 .313 .336 .649 85 259 16 2 10 9 2 162 Game Avg. 162 486 441 55 117 18 3 2 38 11 5 33 51 .265 .313 .336 .649 85 148 9 1 6 5 1 LAA (2 yrs) 151 566 521 70 142 21 3 4 48 10 4 30 65 .273 .309 .347 .657 88 181 10 1 7 7 1 CLE (1 yr) 16 26 26 2 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 .077 .077 .077 .154 -57 2 1 0 0 0 0 HOU (1 yr) 37 92 81 9 22 2 1 0 3 2 0 11 7 .272 .359 .321 .680 91 26 3 0 0 0 1 CHW (1 yr) 79 165 143 15 38 8 2 0 15 7 5 16 16 .266 .340 .350 .689 95 50 2 1 3 2 0 AL (3 yrs) 246 757 690 87 182 29 5 4 63 17 9 46 82 .264 .308 .338 .646 84 233 13 2 10 9 1 NL (1 yr) 37 92 81 9 22 2 1 0 3 2 0 11 7 .272 .359 .321 .680 91 26 3 0 0 0 1

You don't have to tell me. Here's what I will tell you. There is no downside by having Shuck as the full time DH. He could not be any worse than LaRoche. At the very least, Shuck could surprise everyone, but it would be worth an effort to look at. What's the worst that could happen? He sucks? We already had that as the DH this past season.

Dick, I didn't say play Shuck everyday. Put him into the full time DH slot. All his numbers are better.

Dick, Your LaRoche stats fail to state an obvious point. In 2014, he struck out 21% of the time. In 2015, it was 33%. At some point during any season, a player who cannot hit simply needs to be kept out of the lineup until they can figure out how to hit, or to at least have better contact. LaRoche left so many men on base this past season, he cost the Sox runs. His QAB was so incredibly low he was pretty much an automatic out, especially with 2 strikes. A manager's job is to win games and nothing else. Putting LaRoche's needs above the team's most likely cost them runs and perhaps some wins. There's that pesky WAR factor again. If I were Ventura, I would see what happens to him in Spring Training. If it's the same, I would say eat the salary and get someone else. Shuck only struck out 11% of the time, so why not let him DH? They are both lefties. Why is this so hard for Ventura to figure out?

QUOTE (LDF @ Oct 6, 2015 -> 01:20 PM) nice link. i am surprise on where RV he is rated in the chart. very surprise. So is RV.

Here is what I wrote yesterday about bringing Ventura back and why Hahn thinks it's a good thing. But here are my questions: While also acknowledging a need for tactical improvement, Hahn said the organization believes Ventura capable of making the changes needed to win. “If we didn’t feel as an organization that Robin had the ability to be a championship caliber manager, he wouldn’t be here,” Hahn said. “If we felt we didn’t have a championship caliber hitting coach, he wouldn’t be here. And here lies the problem. Ventura is not the only one to blame for these consecutive losing seasons. He is only part of the problem. But I have some questions. 1. Ventura had no managerial experience when hired. After 4 seasons, Ventura has not figured out how to manage at the major league level? He must be a really slow learner then. 2. After 4 seasons, how will Ventura change his tactics? All managers have their own way of doing things, so if upper management wants tactical improvements, who will really be making game time decisions? 3. How can any White Sox management or fan truly believe they have a championship caliber hitting coach if their offense has truly sucked for several years? All season long LaRoche has struck out 33% of the time. Wouldn't you think the hitting coach can help change his approach at the plate? LaRoche stands straight up. They may work in the NL but perhaps not in the AL. Either LaRoche should have changed or leave him out of the lineup. I have seen way too many swings from the whole team at balls bouncing at 57-59 feet. No plate discipline. 4. Base running has been really bad the past several seasons and Ventura refuses to address this. Why? Does he think always running on contact is a good thing? I have seen way too many guys getting doubled off because they break on contact instead of seeing the play develop first. This is basic baseball and that issue falls squarely on the manager. This is a concept players are taught in T-Ball. The fundamentals simply do not change as you age. I believe most were not from hit and runs since the Sox do not have enough good contact hitters so that eliminates a very effective strategy. These are just to name a few.

Hawk is semi retiring. He is extremely annoying. He should retire fulltime. But whatever the Sox do, I hope they don't ask Podsednik to replace him. He was so bad I turned the sound off.

The statement below is in regards to base running mistakes. This has been a problem for several years for which I blame the coaching staff as well as the players. “Coaching is not the problem,” Eaton said. “We were well prepared coming into the season. Basepaths, it’s just us. Guys learning. From my standpoint, I’m still very young and I’m learning every day. I’m learning every day to be a better player on the basepaths, to take better care of myself out there.” I'm sorry. All the players and coaches have been taught since T-Ball not to run on contact on grounders unless forced to. So when they break on contact and it's a liner, they get doubled off. Not including hit and runs which with this offense was never a good idea anyways. So when Eaton says they were well prepared coming into this season, did the fundamentals suddenly change at the major league level?

While also acknowledging a need for tactical improvement, Hahn said the organization believes Ventura capable of making the changes needed to win. “If we didn’t feel as an organization that Robin had the ability to be a championship caliber manager, he wouldn’t be here,” Hahn said. “If we felt we didn’t have a championship caliber hitting coach, he wouldn’t be here. And here lies the problem. Ventura is not the only one to blame for these consecutive losing seasons. He is only part of the problem. But I have some questions. 1. Ventura had no managerial experience when hired. After 4 seasons, Ventura has not figured out how to manage at the major league level? He must be a really slow learner then. 2. After 4 seasons, how will Ventura change his tactics? All managers have their own way of doing things, so if upper management wants tactical improvements, who will really be making game time decisions? 3. How can any White Sox management or fan truly believe they have a championship caliber hitting coach if their offense has truly sucked for several years? All season long LaRoche has struck out 33% of the time. Wouldn't you think the hitting coach can help change his approach at the plate? LaRoche stands straight up. They may work in the NL but perhaps not in the AL. Either LaRoche should have changed or leave him out of the lineup. I have seen way too many swings at balls bouncing at 57-59 feet. No plate discipline.

Southside, my point was not to compare him to a HOF. It was to show not even HOF start out great. Most did, but not all. I just chose exceptional ones. You could look up others as well. PETE ROSE 1963 22 Reds 157 623 101 170 25 9 6 0 41 55 0 72 6 6 5 8 .273 .334 .371 1964 23 Reds 136 516 64 139 13 2 4 1 34 36 0 51 3 1 2 6 .269 .319 .326 Avi may need some seasoing.

So in other words, we can expect another sub par season.

There have been posts about Avi Garcia whether he could hit or not. I have compiled the following stats to show how he compares to other 1st year hitters. The problem I have is Garcia is not a rookie. This is his 1st full year but he may have been around long enough to be able to figure it out or not. LET THE COMMENTS BEGIN. JOE DIMAGGIO 1936 22 Yankees 138 637 132 206 44 15 29 0 125 24 0 39 3 - 4 8 .323 .352 .576 TED WILLIAMS 1939 21 Red Sox 149 565 131 185 44 11 31 2 145 107 6 64 3 - 2 10 .327 .436 .609 FRANK ROBINSON 1956 21 Redlegs 152 572 122 166 27 6 38 0 83 64 7 95 8 4 20 14 .290 .379 .558 CARL YAZ 1961 22 Red Sox 148 583 71 155 31 6 11 0 80 50 3 96 2 5 3 19 .266 .324 .396 EDGAR MARTINEZ 1987 24 Mariners 13 43 6 16 5 2 0 0 5 2 0 5 0 0 1 0 .372 .413 .581 1988 25 Mariners 14 32 0 9 4 0 0 0 5 4 0 7 1 1 0 0 .281 .351 .406 1989 26 Mariners 65 171 20 41 5 0 2 0 20 17 1 26 2 3 3 3 .240 .314 .304 MIGUEL CABRERA 2003 20 Marlins 87 314 39 84 21 3 12 0 62 25 3 84 4 1 2 12 .268 .325 .468 JOSE ALTUVE 2011 21 Astros 57 221 26 61 10 1 2 0 12 5 0 29 5 1 2 5 .276 .297 .357 MANNY RAMIREZ 1993 21 Indians 22 53 5 9 1 0 2 0 5 2 0 8 0 0 0 3 .170 .200 .302 1994 22 Indians 91 290 51 78 22 0 17 0 60 42 4 72 0 4 0 6 .269 .357 .521 DUSTIN PEDROIA 2006 BOS AL 31 89 5 17 27 4 0 2 7 7 0 7 0 1 .191 .258 .303 .561 1.13 2007 BOS AL 139 520 86 165 230 39 1 8 50 47 1 42 7 1 .317 .380 .442 .823 0.93 2008 BOS AL 157 653 118 213 322 54 2 17 83 50 1 52 20 1 .326 .376 .493 .869 1.04 AVI GARCIA Year Team LG G AB R H TB 2B 3B HR RBI BB IBB SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS GO/AO 2012 DET AL 23 47 7 15 15 0 0 0 3 3 1 10 0 2 .319 .373 .319 .692 2.29 2013 DET AL 30 83 12 20 31 3 1 2 10 4 0 21 0 1 .241 .273 .373 .646 2.54 2013 CWS AL 42 161 19 49 72 4 2 5 21 5 0 38 3 2 .304 .327 .447 .775 1.58 2013 [+] 2 teams - 72 244 31 69 103 7 3 7 31 9 0 59 3 3 .283 .309 .422 .731 1.86 2014 CWS AL 46 172 19 42 71 8 0 7 29 14 1 44 4 1 .244 .305 .413 .718 1.82 2015 CWS AL 146 547 65 139 199 17 2 13 59 34 3 141 7 7 .254 .305 .364 .669 1.54

If I were the GM I would certainly listen to offers for Q. Why not, there's no downside to listening. The best starting rotation does not score runs and unless the Sox can pick up some bats, having Q will make no difference whatsoever.

There are a number of factors why attendance is down. I am a true baseball fan and love the Sox but here is my opinion for what its worth. We all work hard and to pay money to see crappy baseball is not worth my time and money. It takes me 2 hours each way to get to the ball park. Now, all teams go through periods of rebuilding periods but when you don't see any improvements, why should anyone bother? Ventura has been managing for 4 years now and I have seen enough of him to say he needs to go. Let's save that for another post. Over the last several years, I have seen bad fundamentals that I can't believe. Starting with base running. I can't tell you how many times I have seen runners get doubled off because they break on contact instead of seeing the play develop. Isn't this what minor league is suppose to do? Teach? How many chances doe LaRoche need? He K's about 33% of the time and Shuck does about 10%. Why not have Shuck DH? It's called playing to your strengths not weaknesses. How about the lack of offense over the past several years? How many games can the Sox win if they do not acquire enough bats? The bottom half of the order is lousy and the entire team's lack of situational hitting is horrible. How many times can the Sox leave men on base or not have QABs? And my last point is the location. It sucks. No other way around it. They should have built the new stadium by circle campus. They could have created an atmosphere outside the ball park because they would have had room. There could have been things to do with kids outside of the game. I will not spend an entire day traveling to and from the game to watch bad baseball when I can watch it on tv for free and not pay $9.00 for a beer. Wake me when the Sox start to play better.

If you look at the numbers starting from 05, the attendance has gone down by a lot every year. As of now, the Sox are in 26th place. With no hope of actually competing for the next 2 years, the numbers will continue to go down. I am not willing to fork over hard earned money to see crappy baseball when I can sit at home and see the same crappy product for free. That being said, The offensive numbers for the Sox continue to stink. Our very good pitchers get absolutely no run support. Just ask Quintana. His wins would be much more if he had any type of run support. If I were managing, I would not seek out big bombers (laRoche) but players that can hit for average. This is not rocket science. It's easy to do. You don't win many games when the bottom half of your order is hitting where they are. This does not even mention the Sox lack of situational hitting or RISP. Since LaRoche K's almost 33% of the time, why is he ever in the lineup. Shuck K's only 10% and has a much higher average. This is a no brainer with the DH role. BATTING NAME GP AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB BA OBP SLG OPS OWAR Jeff Samardzija 31 2 0 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 0 .500 .500 .500 1.000 0.0 Trayce Thompson 38 102 15 30 8 2 5 15 57 9 23 1 .294 .351 .559 .910 1.0 Jose Abreu 150 596 87 173 34 3 29 97 300 38 136 0 .290 .348 .503 .851 3.7 Adam Eaton 148 590 94 167 26 9 13 51 250 56 129 17 .283 .357 .424 .781 5.0 J.B. Shuck 74 134 14 37 7 2 0 14 48 16 14 7 .276 .353 .358 .711 0.9 Melky Cabrera 153 608 69 167 35 2 12 76 242 40 84 3 .275 .317 .398 .715 1.7 Avisail Garcia 143 535 65 139 17 2 13 59 199 33 138 7 .260 .310 .372 .682 0.9 Alexei Ramirez 148 559 54 139 31 0 10 60 200 30 66 17 .249 .285 .358 .643 1.7 Conor Gillaspie† 58 173 10 41 11 1 3 15 63 9 34 0 .237 .276 .364 .640 0.1 Tyler Saladino 62 225 31 52 5 4 4 20 77 12 49 7 .231 .272 .342 .614 0.2 Micah Johnson 36 100 10 23 4 0 0 4 27 9 30 3 .230 .306 .270 .576 -0.2 Tyler Flowers 109 322 20 73 11 0 9 38 111 20 102 0 .227 .284 .345 .628 0.7 Carlos Sanchez 114 371 37 84 23 1 5 31 124 16 78 2 .226 .267 .334 .601 0.2 Geovany Soto 77 185 20 41 8 0 9 21 76 20 63 0 .222 .301 .411 .712 1.1 Mike Olt† 20 65 5 14 0 0 3 4 23 7 26 0 .215 .292 .354 .646 0.0 Gordon Beckham 98 207 24 44 8 0 6 20 70 19 41 0 .213 .280 .338 .618 0.3 Adam LaRoche 126 426 41 89 21 0 12 44 146 49 133 0 .209 .295 .343 .638 -0.6

Regardless what Reinsdorf does, Ventura has to go. That's plan number 1. He brings nothing to the team. Next agenda is to get a catcher. Saladino is fine at 3B and Sanchez may improve. Trade LaRoche for a 12 year old because they will both produce the same results.

I think if Garcia works hard in the off season of his angles, he would be a better outfielder. Right now, he is above average. How much is subjective. Another area he should look to improve upon is his ability to know the strike zone. Any pitch above the hands is a ball. Abreau and Thompson both can't hit sliders.

Abreu is good at 1B, but not great. He has made some really good plays but sometimes he can't pick on a bad throw when a pro should be able to. However, since he is good enough, hit bat speaks for itself. Should he be a full time DH? No until the front office gets a gold glover.

Whether Ozzie comes back or not, it really does not matter because none of it is up to us. That being said, Ventura has to go. How many seasons does a manager have to be on a team with absolutely no improvements before he is fired? Here are his results. Let them speak for themselves! W L WIN % 1 2012 Chicago White Sox AL 85 77 .525 162 2nd place 2 2013 Chicago White Sox AL 63 99 .389 162 5th place 3 2014 Chicago White Sox AL 73 89 .451 162 4th place 4 2015 Chicago White Sox AL 69 75 .479 144 4th place most likely 4 years 290 340 .460 630

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Sep 16, 2015 -> 08:28 AM) So don't go. That's your right. Do whatever you want. I prefer watching professionals but do whatever you'd like. Thanks. I'm glad I have your permission to do whatever I want. I was worried and not sleeping because I didnot have your permission. This post has been edited by the Soxtalk staff to remove objectionable material. Soxtalk encourages a free discussion between its members, but does not allow personal attacks, threats, graphic sexual material, nudity, or any other materials judged offensive by the Administrators and Moderators. Thank you.

It takes me about 2 hours to get to a Sox game, each way. Why would I want to spend all that time and money going to watch lousy baseball when I can go to the local park and watch kids play and having fun. I have no desire to go.

After the team won the World Series, Ozzie thought he could walk on water. He thought everything was about him. Look at what I did as a 2nd year manager, I won the World Series. I am not sure if he should be the manager of the WS again but he would definatly be an improvement over Ventura. Ventura is way over his head. Just look at how many times he has LaRoche in the lineup. He has become almost an automatic out which means you only have 8 batting. I have seen so many base running blunders over the past several seasons and that is on Ventura. He refuses to address the issue. Bottom line, Ventura needs to go if the WS plan on once again being a contender. If not, look on the bright side, There's always reruns on tv.