blackmooncreeping

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Mar 18, 2016 -> 10:14 PM) He told a lie because he isn't ncessarily a part of the team dynamic and took the blame rather than guys on the team or Robin. If you can't see that, you're as clueless - or likely more clueless, than Sale. If you feel the need to insult people because you don't agree with their OPINION, do it somewhere else. It might temporarily make you feel better but it's not a good look.

QUOTE (Condor13 @ Mar 18, 2016 -> 10:08 PM) I can see that. But right now the only facts that are known is that LaRoche retired bc KW told him to limit the amount of time that his kid was there. Other then that nothing is fact. Based on LaRoche's statement I would retire as well. Regardless of a contract or not everyone knew the deal with his son. He knew it was his last year and didn't want to play it without his son by his side. So he chose to retire I would too. Now all the other crap is still in question right now though. I hear you, but that seems like a pretty thin reason to quit your profession. I mean, JR spoke with Laroche already, and he's still retiring, so I have to assume that JR is backing the org/Kenny. Otherwise you'd think they could've worked it all out as a misunderstanding. Reinsdorf knew and agreed, that's a hard point to ignore imo. It shows he thinks his guy was ultimately in the right. Watch JR fire his ass tomorrow and throw this thing back in the spin cycle.

QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Mar 18, 2016 -> 10:01 PM) I think Kenny was falling on the grenade for the team. If robin would have said something there would have been mutiny and lost the locker room. If player said something then you have all the other players looking down on him. Other coaches then you are to lose players trust. Hahn which if did make agreement on kid then would lose respect for signing future players. If Kenny was acting alone and rogue then I'm sure Laroche could've gone to Jerry to settle things unless Jerry is to loyal which can't image that would totally ruin the organizations look for letting a rogue employee go off. Jerry met with Laroche and yet he still retired so Jerry must of known fully what was going on and agreed. It's faults on both parties for letting thinks go like this. This is a key point that is getting no air, especially from the KW haters. JR has already talked with Laroche, and yet Laroche still retired. To me that sounds like JR is backing the org on this, and was aware from the beginning that KW was going to at least restrict the kid's access, and appears to have agreed it was necessary for a team that has consistently underachieved for the last several seasons. The next 2 or 3 days is going to provide some transparency I believe/hope/pray, once JR takes charge and sorts this batch of idiots out. I just can't buy that KW would go rogue and do this solo, which means JR knew about it and agreed otherwise he would have told KW NO.

QUOTE (Condor13 @ Mar 18, 2016 -> 09:44 PM) That is not why he was vocal today. It was bc KW LIED to the team and has told numerous stories and now noone knows the truth. That is Sale's version/perception tho, and I understand he was vocal because he feels they were lied to. Maybe it's true, maybe it's not, but either way it should not be stated as fact when it's unverified. Sale is the only one I've heard talk about different stories to different parties, right?

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Mar 18, 2016 -> 06:05 PM) But what was the agreement? Did the Sox think he would bring his kid to the clubhouse all day and every day? Or did they think he would bring his kid along every so often? That's the key to me. What was agreed to? Or was this some ambiguous agreement where neither parties had a meeting of the mind as to how often the kid would be in the clubhouse. Laroche obviously knew what the frequency would be, he's been doing it for the past 5 years.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 18, 2016 -> 04:06 PM) I wasn't too entirely upset about things until LaRoche's statement. It seemed like a coincidence of bad assumptions until then. But once the statement was released, it is clear someone is flat out lying, and the organization is being burned down right now. Judging by Sale and LaRoche's statements, it really feels like Kenny is the guy in the wrong here, as both of them are telling the same story, independent of each other. That is a big red flag. At this point, a CLEAR statement of leadership needs to come from this organization, and now I don't think it can just be a private speech and statement released from Jerry. They either have to flat out say that LaRoche is lying, or they need to have Kenny leave. This has gotten out of control, and the organization is a public embarrassment right now. This could also be the case if: A) Laroche is omitting the parts of the story where he blew off KW's initial request (as it seems to be stated in Nightengale's latest) B) Sale comes to the defense of a teammate based on the limited knowledge he has of the situation (and we know he's been itching to pick a fight with KW for years) Sale, not surprisingly, is basically parroting Laroche's version because it's the only one he's got. I want to hear Sale's response if it is proven that there were multiple complaints fielded by KW/front office previous to this train wreck. If so, Sale better be ready to eat crow.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Mar 18, 2016 -> 03:41 PM) Honestly, I don't understand how it can be LaRoche. Its been widely reported he was given permission to bring his son to the clubhouse, potentially as part of the pitch to come here. He than made the decision that being with his son was more important than playing. Yes, he was directly involved in this whole piece, but nowhere did he do anything wrong. You can whine about him potentially leaking or telling people a story, but Sale / Eaton speaking there piece has nothing to do with LaRoche and it seems everything to do with how Kenny directed this. I might not agree with LaRoche's beliefs on how to raise a kid, but his wanting to be with his kid is certainly better than the alternative (being a dead beat dad) and it was entirely his right to make the decision he did. On the flipside, if KW unilaterally did this, while he's the president, I don't really think it is within his right. How tone deaf can Laroche be, he has no clue that multiple players/people had complained about the team? No way is he little ole innocent Adam on this, gimme a break. If he reacted to KW's request in that manner, you have no problem with it? Blowing off the team VP?

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Mar 18, 2016 -> 02:56 PM) 1) Laroche - He needs to understand that no matter how much he wants this and even if the Sox made a verbal agreement to allow it--it just isn't a good idea 2) Sale - He needs to shut the f*** up and worry about pitching 3) Other players - Disputes between another player and management are none of your business This, 100%

QUOTE (Real @ Mar 18, 2016 -> 08:44 PM) and about half of the remaining 500 fans. there couldn't be a more idiotic decision made. That's one way to look at it, thanks for your opinion. Another is it would be far more idiotic to keep a toxic player around in order to keep a 500 count fanbase happy then to trade the malcontent and receive a ransom in players/prospects to move forward with. I don't want Sale traded, but if he isn't on board and ultimately continues acting out, it would be idiotic to keep him around.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 18, 2016 -> 07:43 PM) Nightingales story confirms La Roche wasn't lying. How do you arrive at that, do tell

QUOTE (fathom @ Mar 18, 2016 -> 07:22 PM) And as was missing from his letter, LaRoche didn't adhere to the wishes like he said he would. Exactly, Laroche is a liar who omitted certain parts of reality that didn't fit his narrative. If it's true that Kenny asked him last week to dial it back, and then Kenny saw zero change over the next 4 days, and then finally he saw the kid on the mound during team drills almost a week later, I'm not surprised he blew up and took the access away. I'd do the same thing as a VP to an employee who was being defiantly subordinate. If Laroche didn't respect the wishes of the team's VP, and basically ignored him, then screw him. And again, if true, then screw him twice for omitting that from the letter his agent--err, I mean he, wrote himself. Kenny is not clean in this by any stretch, and he clumsily handled it from the start, no doubt. And I am fine with KW either re-signing or being fired, whatever. However, Laroche is far from squeaky in this, and I've had about enough of him taking the "high road" while leaking out negative tweets about the Sox through his friggin meat company. I'm a White Sox fan first, not a Laroche fan. Good riddance if he can't be honest about what happened. I hope we ultimately find out the truth; maybe JR can put things in order shortly. If Nightengale's piece is accurate and multiple people with and around the team complained about the kid's constant presence dating back to last season, then Sale and Eaton--especially Sale-- look like idiots who don't have a clue about their own clubhouse. That might be a bigger issue than anything in the long run.

If JR lays down the law and Sale continues to b****, he gone.

It's about time Laroche came out and said something. I'm personally glad it has boiled down to this now--one of those 2 guys is lying, or at the very least, bending the truth to fit their own narrative. Once they get in the room and meet with JR it shouldn't take too long to figure out who is full of it, and then it's head rolling time. It's 2 weeks until the season starts, Reinsdorf is going to squash this one way or the other shortly. I think if anything, KW is going to step down; I just don't see JR firing him. Nor do I see any players being traded over this. Who knows as far as Laroche goes, and if he would reconsider his retirement if KW is out of the picture.

QUOTE (Black_Jack29 @ Mar 18, 2016 -> 01:59 PM) I doubt that Kenny needs Reinsdorf's approval to make those types of decisions. No idea, but if he is and this is what results, I'll bet JR is pissed at him for being tone deaf in the way he handled it.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 18, 2016 -> 01:48 PM) Maybe JR should have had these discussions before KW took action. Which makes it seem like it's a possibility that KW didn't get JR's approval before he made the move. IF so, that's not a good look for KW.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 18, 2016 -> 01:41 PM) Multiple sources said the Sox were signing Cespedes. I would think he has the pulse of the team better than any of us, or any one source. I didn't say us fans had a better take on the team, I said I don't think he's the ultimate authority in that room to be making those type of statements for the group. Speak for yourself; he has no idea how players who dealt with it last year might have felt.

QUOTE (Condor13 @ Mar 18, 2016 -> 01:31 PM) It bc he didn't walk out on them, they all know that family comes first and that Is above all else. Also they knew he only came here bc the sox allowed his son to be there all the time. The players are 100% with LaRoche and against KW How could you possibly know this to be true tho? It has been reported otherwise by credible sources that it is not 100%, and that there were some player complaints, regardless of what the percentage might have been.

QUOTE (fathom @ Mar 18, 2016 -> 01:27 PM) Daryl Van Schouwen ‏@CST_soxvan 2m2 minutes ago "about this issue and get our focus back on the field and winning baseball games." Daryl Van Schouwen ‏@CST_soxvan 2m2 minutes ago More JR: "As a result we don not want to comment until that process is completed. I have instructed members of the organization not to talk More Daryl Van Schouwen ‏@CST_soxvan 3m3 minutes ago "This is an internal issue and we are in the process of holding a number of discussions with players, staff and the front office ... Daryl Van Schouwen ‏@CST_soxvan 4m4 minutes ago Reinsdorf: "While we appreciate everyone's attention and interest, we continue to feel that it would be premature to comment at this time." How pissed is JR to have to come out and make these statements. s*** is gonna go down now...

QUOTE (Black_Jack29 @ Mar 18, 2016 -> 01:26 PM) They reportedly do have an upcoming meeting with Reinsdorf. If only they could've kept their mouths shut until then... Exactly. They should've had their meeting with JR BEFORE going off the rails, and all this crap could have been largely avoided. But the team 'leaders' decided they had to go off via the media, which ultimately makes this whole thing a lot harder to put to bed. KW is an idiot, but the players didn't help the situation.

QUOTE (Condor13 @ Mar 18, 2016 -> 01:25 PM) For those saying sale and Eaton should shut up and deal with this internally how the hell will that work. They can't go to Ventura bc KW went over his head with all of this, same as RH. The only option they have is to go to JR, but KW head is so far up JR *** that it won't help. So they take the only avenue available to them. Cmon, that is ridiculously closed minded; they of course can go to their manager, or GM, any time they want to with team issues. Make their group opinion known to their manager, and then take it up the ladder with his support. That is how to be most effective, not by spouting off an emotionally charged monologue a sound bite at a time to the media. Make a list of some the best team leaders in sports (Manning, Toews, Duncan, etc.)--do you think they would air something like this out publically? Hell no.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 18, 2016 -> 01:11 PM) Now I read what Sale is referring to with the lies is KW. Apparently KW said players came to him, then changed it to coaches came to him, then said it was JR. Maybe that's why they want to meet with JR. And Frazier told Levine players did not complain about it at all. Sorry but Frazier has been around for about 10 minutes, it's silly for him to think he has the pulse down of the entire team. Especially when multiple sources have said there were complaints about it from some players.

QUOTE (fathom @ Mar 18, 2016 -> 01:03 PM) Adam Hoge ‏@AdamHoge 6m6 minutes ago Chris Sale: "We have a much bigger problem on our hands than Kenny coming in here and kicking out a kid and LaRoche retiring." What the hell is that supposed to mean?

QUOTE (Condor13 @ Mar 18, 2016 -> 12:46 PM) I don't know why everyone is ripping Sale or even Eaton. Sale is doing exactly what you want a leader of the clubhouse to do, bring the team together and stick up for family. KW appears to be a complete ass and has cause this entire situaltion. It even appears he manipulated the situation to his liking by tell the players the coaches had a problem with Drake, telling the coaches players had a problem with him, and telling everyone that this decision came from the owner. Sale better damn make some waves bc of this and he is 100% correct that is should have been KW walking of the locker room and not LaRoche. Eaton just needs to shut his trap with the press; chirping through the media is the surest way to fan the flames and keep it spiraling; this is not the approach of a true leader. The sentiment is fine, I get sticking up for your team, etc., but the method of going public on full blast against KW does NOT show true leadership imo, it just makes things worse in the short term. A true pro/captain handles team business on the inside, not through the press and manipulation. I see what Sale is trying to do, and I appreciate it, but his method shows immaturity on his part. And for the record, if KW is full of it, he should be fired. I'm definitely not a KW apologist.

QUOTE (Condor13 @ Mar 17, 2016 -> 02:02 PM) I go back to what I said yesterday. KW looks like a complete *** and is destroying this teams chemistry. I mean what other organization would let a VP destroy **** the way KW has done. The players apparently we're all opposed to KW, and Sale (your damn prized possession) was so furious with KW that he told him to get the **** out of the locker room and stat out. Sale is right, KW is the VP but thinks he is the Manger and the GM. Stay the **** out of the locker room cause all he has manged to do is **** things up year after year. He might have even cost the sox a future with sale as thir ace. KW has to ******* go and now!!! Rant over. Technically this is not true; it's been reported that there were also players who complained about the 24/7 access. Doesn't make anyone involved look like less of an ass tho

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 17, 2016 -> 08:59 AM) I see bat boys every game. I see kids not related to players visting teams every day. No one on Soxtalk called LaRoche a bad parent or said his son was around too much when a couple articles about the situation came out last year. If there was a policy in place saying Drake can come 3 days a week, I would be fine with it. But there wasn't, and still isn't. And he did the exact same thing last season. If it bothered a player and that is what KW is covering for, he could have waited a couple of weeks and changed the policy. LaRoche hasn't been playing so Drake's presence wasn't inhibiting his getting ready to play. If the team policy changed to no kids, that's fine too. That is merely your opinion, and has no bearing whatsoever on the Sox decision and when they made it. And certainly doesn't make it the wrong choice because you think they should have timed it different.