SoxSteve

Wow is our minor leagues atrociously horrible. Unreal how bad they are on all levels. Anderson is the the only guy doing anything. Hate to be a downer but i have to laugh when Levine had us getting Cargo or Bruce. For what? We have no trade chips for any top available talent. Disappointing is a understatement. Embarrassing might be more appropriate. Just sayin

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 28, 2016 -> 09:18 PM) Markakis is a fine "complementary" player at this point in his career. The only question with him is how highly motivated the Braves are to get rid of that contract, as they've done with Bourn and Swisher already. There's something like 3 years and $30-32 million remaining. As far as making statistical comparisons, you're much better off looking at his last two seasons in Baltimore than one month in the NL East. While he has always maintained very high OBP rates, his power has fallen off precipitously, and his formerly Gold Glove level defense has degraded to well below average. What that's worth to the White Sox, I'm not sure. They would probably be more interested if his contract was expiring after next season...fwiw. True but last year in Atlanta he hit 39 doubles and 379 OBP. Not bad

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 28, 2016 -> 07:57 PM) Man you are just going around in circles. You have an idea, but you only seem to want to attack anyone who tries to fill in all of your blanks with some common sense. Who do you actually think we would need to give up in this deal, and why do we need to do it now if it doesn't help us at all this year? And no biggie but i thought i mention Markakis has 411 OBP,11 doubles and 19 RBI 's from the lead off spot on the worse team in baseball.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 28, 2016 -> 05:18 PM) Let me clue you in. Vogelbach isn't going to be free. That means we are either giving up one of the pieces you just mentioned, or a starting pitcher to get him. Who exactly do you think the Cubs are going to ask for? They are going to look for someone who can help them this year, or such a good prospect they can't pass up the deal. Obviously you never heard of a 3 team trade but apparently you forgot about the Frazier deal. And one one hand you say he is not ready and hasn't been on a major league clubhouse and on the other you say we have to give up one of the big 3 to get him. Which is it? That means you think Voglebach will cost the same as Cargo or Bruce right? And apprently you think he is as valuable as Frazier seeing we would have to give up more to get him. And your a mod? And to ,the other guys post i don't have a fascination with him i just think he attainable.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 28, 2016 -> 01:53 PM) Then why would be worried about trading for him now? We need guys who can help now, not in 2017 and beyond. Because you snooze you lose. Because he is going traded sometime and and if we don't have to raid our minor leagues why not do it now. Unless you want to give up Adams, Fulmer, or Anderson when you get in a bidding war for Cargo or Bruce. And he can help now IMO. Why can't he? Unless your in love with Jerry Sands and if that's the case my apologies.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 28, 2016 -> 12:58 PM) What makes you know that this guy will be able to hit in a professional line up, from day one, in a pennant race? And please don't say because Schwarber did it. Nothing about those two players is the same, other than that they are Cubs that can field to save their lives. I'm not saying he can be a major leaguer. I think he can beacuae he doesnt strike out alot and gets alot of walks and looks like a professional hitter. No one knows. But again i don't want to sacrifice any of our top 3 minor leaguers for Cargo or Bruce which we probably have to do. And too the other guys comments about carrying both him and Avi on the roster. Kinda like carrying Sands and Avi. Sands is useless to me and would much rather have a left handed bat. And does anyone here really have faith in Avi? I don't but maybe I'm in the minority.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 28, 2016 -> 12:31 PM) He is also absolutely unproven in any way shape or form. He hasn't even had a single major league AB. We'd have to give up some pretty serious assets to get a guy who has never seen the inside of a major league clubhouse. If you are looking at 2017 and beyond, sure. But for 2016? We need someone a lot more proven. Well if you want to see Avi and Sands at DH then i understand. If you want to give up one of our top 3 minor leaguers to get Cargo or Bruce then i understand. And you think we have to give up serious assets for a guy who hasn't seen a major league clubhouse and is ranked like 15th to 20th in their System? Wow they do have a AWESOME system Apprarently, lol. And Schwarber didnt see a major league clubhouse either and that turned out pretty good. I'm saying Voglebach is the 2nd coming but he is attainable without draining our minor leagues.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Apr 28, 2016 -> 11:46 AM) They are absolutely sacrificing defense with a Vogelbach-Avi DH platoon. Neither of those guys can field their positions competently, and you are removing a bench player like Saladino or Sands who can actually play their positions and hit competently. You act like Vogelbach is a sure thing, just plug and play. This guy hasnt proven anything How are you sacrificing defense? You don't think Voglebach can play 10 games a year at first? And Frazier can play some first so you can put Saladino at 3rd when that happens. And who says anything about getting rid of Saladino? And did see Sands at first the other day? Not good. The only question here is would you rather have the right handed hitting Sands on your roster or the left handed hitting Voglebach? Sands is very easily replaceable player on the roster.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 28, 2016 -> 09:59 AM) To me it seems like the Cubs are intentionally moving him slowly in order to prop up his numbers to trade him, knowing full well that he is blocked at pretty much every position he could play. Voglebach is strictly a DH and not a good fielding backup ist baseman. That's all. And I'm not saying he is the answer but he has a good OBP and power and he will come a lot cheaper than any of the other guys like Bruce or Cargo. And HE WILL BE TRADED at some point in his career to a American League team so why not now and why not us? Believe me Theo doesn't care if its the Sox or whoever he just wants the best return. I think he would be great with us and we don't have to sacrifice defense and the minor leagues to acquire him. A Voglebach- Avi lefty/ righty DH combo doesn't sound half bad. With Eaton doing a great job in right Avi really doesn't have a position and i would take Voglebach over him as DH for sure.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 27, 2016 -> 11:27 PM) That guy is huge. Another former Cub blocked by Rizzo. Is a DH/1B worth Adams? He only has one homer this season (so far)...and a .777 OPS for his career. Considering the league change, I don't think the White Sox would be willing to give up Adams unless it's going to be a significant upgrade over Garcia. Of course, Avi's lifetime OPS isn't even over 700 (.693), so one can argue about how valuable an upgrade he would be. With how well the Sox are playing right now, they're unlikely to do anything to change up the roster chemistry on the offensive side unless they start to fall backwards to the .500 mark. Go get DAN VOGLEBACH from the Cubs and he solves a left handed bat issue and backup first issue as well. I think he can step in right now against righties and do a very good job. Won't upset the clubhouse because because sands is the odd man out not a everyday player. Doesn't sacrifice defense seeing he's a DH and wants to play it so no more of that " can't get used to DHing thats what i can't hit crap". And he doesn't cost us any of our top 3 guys to get him. Do a 3 way trade if the Cubs don't want what we have. And seeing the Cubs will trade him at some point why not to us? It s a no brainer in my book. He could be a lefty DH for us for the next 7-8 years on top of helping us now.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Apr 21, 2016 -> 04:49 PM) You are too narrowly focused on just a handful of stats. 170 strikeouts and 25 errors don't tell me much about whether a guy was good or not. Kris Bryant and Chris Davis led their respective leagues in strikeouts last year but they were two of the best players in baseball in 2015. Josh Donaldson makes a lot of errors every year but he's one of the best defenders in the game. On the other hand, being good at one stat doesn't mean you're good overall. Markakis's .370 OBP last year was very good, but when packaged with no power, poor defense and bad baserunning, it doesn't make for a very valuable player, particularly coming from a corner outfield spot. WAR isn't perfect, but it allows you to see the whole picture. It also takes into account stuff like league, ballpark and positional adjustments, which means you can't just take all these stats at face value. True but those guys knocked in 100 plus runs and hit 30 homers. And when it's your average for the last 3 years that tells me something and its not the kind of player i want on my team. I don't need to see what his WAR IS. That's says it all

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Apr 21, 2016 -> 12:09 PM) Sounds like a classic case of "this stat doesn't fit my viewpoint, so I'm just going to ignore it". And no, Austin Jackson doesn't have a better WAR than Fowler, not sure what you're looking at. No it's the classic case of using WAR as a argument whether we should get a guy or not. Do you guys actually sit here and say" well i wish we had Justin upton on the Sox" but I'm not sure what is his WAR"? If i wish i had a dollar for every post when someone here said we should get Ian Desmond because he had a plus 2 or 3 WAR or whatever. Well i look at his his last 3 year average of 170 strikeouts and his 25 errors to realize he doesn't fit out team. But i look at a guy like Fowler or Markaikis and their OBP and say i wish we had one one those in the 2 hole no matter what there stupid WAR is.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 21, 2016 -> 07:59 AM) It is his fault no one wants him when Atlanta would love to do nothing more than dump him like they did the rest of their vets. I know stats are out of your league and all, but taking a five year sample of dWAR shows Melky -3.8 Markaikis -4.9 The numbers show they are both bad in the OF, but Nick is clearly worse. Again forget about WAR. Austin Jackson has a better WAR than Fowler but who do you want on your team? A guy who gets on base at a 370 clip or a guy who can't get on base. We need a 2 hole hitter not a number 9 hitter. Sure Jackson is a better fielder but thats why we have defensive replacements. We need a 2 hole hitter that won't cost us our minor leagues. He fits the bill perfectly no matter what his WAR says. And flowers was a great pitch framer, lol. Meaningless

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 20, 2016 -> 09:07 PM) Out of all of that, Markakis might be an improvement over Garcia. The rest of it, not so much. The reason we wouldn't "bleed our minor leagues" is because he sucks and no one wants him for that contract. It was a mistake when it was signed, and is now a weight around his neck. If he was half as good as your eyes think he is, he'd be in demand. Instead is sitting on a team that is tanking and trading away every vet in sight. That should tell you something right there. it's his fault there tanking? Yea right. No one said is was a good contract. Hell 70% of them are mistakes but if you think he sucks your crazy. I never said he was great but for the 2 hole which is our biggest weakness he is perfect. You don't want 40 doubles and a 370 OBP batting 2nd or do your metrics tell a different story. And if you don't think he is a wayyy better fielder than Cabrera your off your rocker. Not even close. IMO he is the easiest guy to get without giving up much. But OBP is something the Sox don't think is valuable but its going to kill this team before the seasons over.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 20, 2016 -> 07:59 PM) Thanks for the assists. Wow over 130,000 posts and nothing said. Il give you a old message board saying" read more- post less". Andyour the guy who wanted Ian Desmond. Ya nice call on that one. Maybe you should get your face out of the computer and don't go by the metrics and actually watch some baseball for a change. Il give you a tip, you can learn something. Just follow this for a second now, Markaikis > than Cabrera in left= YES. Cabrera > DH than Garcia = YES. Markakis > than anyone in our 2 hole= YES. Our OBP > with Markaikis than what we have now= YES. Markakis > in clubhouse than without= YES. Don't have to bleed our minor leagues to get him> compared to some of the others like Cargo= YES. GET THE PICTURE? I CAN DO IT IN ALL CAPS IF IT WILL HELP. And i never said Markakis is a defensive wizard just that he's al huge step up from Cabrera.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 20, 2016 -> 05:46 PM) Speaking of what are you talking about, you just disqualified anything else in your posts with this statement. Why is that? Tell me one thing i said about Markakis and the White Sox that wasn't true?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 20, 2016 -> 01:14 PM) Eh. He is off to an unsustainable start, and hasn't been very good for a number of years now. He hasn't had a positive defensive number for almost a decade. He'd be a marginal improvement, but the guy is still owed $22 million. What are you talking about? Last year he had a excellent year. 294 BA, 375 OBP and 39 doubles. How would you like that in the 2 hole? And his defensive is pretty good seeing he won the gold glove in 2014. And would fit right in out clubouse and wouldnt cost a arm and a leg like Cargo He would be well well above average in left field. We would improve the defense, 2 hole issue, OBP issue and wouldn't deplete the minors to do it.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 20, 2016 -> 12:55 PM) Bingo. Markaikas name should be on any list for us. Perfect 2 hole hitter with a ton of doubles and high OBP and not alot of strikeouts. Put him in left and move Cabrera to DH and get rid of Avi. Should have been done in the offseason. He will be traded for sure seeing he's the last of Atlanta high prices players. No brainer to me

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Apr 18, 2016 -> 11:15 AM) Um, newsflash - nobody is questioning where the team is in the standings today on April 18th. What a few of the more thoughtful posters are simply questioning is whether with this anemic offense if the team will be able to maintain this position going forward. In other words, with the league's worst offense at the moment, will you be able to claim in big, bold words on May 18th that the Sox are in first place? June 18th? September 18th? That's all people are wondering about right now, and it's a legitimate concern. If you'd stop with the constant scolding of others around here you might have time to realize this yourself. Forgetting about our recorded so far, the OBP Is a problem and will be a problem all year IMO. That Is why i wanted Fowler or Markakis in the worst way. Put either of those guys in the 1 or 2 hole and this team would be significantly better. Imagine Fowler and eaton 1-2 or 2-1? nat would have been lethal for sure. Maybe if Drake gate happened 3 weeks earlier we might have upped the ante for him. Jackson should not be a starter and just be a defensive replacement at best and a good one for sure. The 2 hole hole is a major issue and don't feel we have that player on our roster right know who can fill that gaping hole. Time will tell

QUOTE (hi8is @ Apr 12, 2016 -> 10:26 PM) Call me in four more weeks. Trade for Voglelbach and be done with it. Can help just facing righties this year and then full time DH next year. Left handed bat that could be had without raiding our minor leagues and without sacrificing our defense. It's right there for the taking. Cubs will trade him soon so it might as well be us. No brainer in my book

QUOTE (greg775 @ Apr 9, 2016 -> 01:18 AM) I agree with this premise. When we fall behind ... heaven help us. Even with all these new players. At least our new 3Bman put a little dent in the 5-0 deficit. But overall ... our offense has been abysmal and has a bad approach for a long time. Exactly. That is he main reason that i was begging for Fowler or Markaikas. We badly need someone in that 2 whole that can get on base at 360 clip like they can. Austin's Jackson is not the answer.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Apr 7, 2016 -> 03:48 PM) Can we be interested in David Murphy instead? I will take Loney in a heartbeat. Around 296 BA and 340 OBP against righties is great platoon player for our DH position. We don't have a good OBP team and i think it really hurts us. Sands offers nothing and we have a bunch of right handers who don't on get on base enough like Frazier, Lowrie, Jackson and Garcia. Hope it happens.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Apr 5, 2016 -> 12:41 PM) Yep. Vogelbach needs more time to see if his power develops and to see how he handles AAA pitching this year. His .272 BA, 7HR in 313 PA's for AA last year aren't that impressive. Not trying to knock the guy, just needs more time is all. Would love to have him in the Sox system. I agree they aren't that impressive but he gutted out a serious obliques injury and some hamstring issues. And yes he needs more time but to the other poster's response i don't think we have to give up someone at the major league level to get him. First the Cubs don't need anything lineup wise right now and from i read they do some some minor league pitching issues due to injury and ineffectiveness. Again it's not going to happen but i would take a run at him now in case he does explode and has a great year in the minors and becomes a hot prospect.

Don't know if this is worthy of a new topic but i think the Sox should go after Dan Vogelbach from the Cubs to fill the lefty DH position i think we need. if not later this year definitely in the future. To me he has all the boxes checked with what the Sox need in a DH. A- he is a left handed bat. B- he is young and hungry and not some retread like Dunn or Laroche. C- he is cheap in terms of salary. D- he is a guy who knows what he is. A DH only and is not going to use not playing a position as a excuse for not hitting. E- he has some untapped power and is is a very good OBP guy with lots of walks and not a lot of strikeouts. 25 plus home runs a year in our ballpark should be easily attainable. F- we can get him without trading away any of our top prospects and raiding our minor leagues. He is going to be traded for sure and i feel we can get him for a guy like Danish or someone like that. Maybe less. G- you can add a left handed bat in the lineup without sacrifice badly needed defense. i know he didn't have a great year last year power wise due some serious core injuries but did get on base at a 400 clip and always has a great OBP. Also he is a hard worker and would be great young asset in the clubhouse IMO. Just throwing out a suggestion on maybe adding a potential left handed power bat that i feel we can pretty cheap and without crippling our minor leagues. I would like to see us go for him now before he gets more attention if he has a great this year. And if it doesn't work you didn't lose that much in terms of top talent. And sorry for the long post.

QUOTE (Chet Kincaid @ Mar 29, 2016 -> 11:57 AM) This saddens me because I can't say it's wrong. Love the Hawk and love he is a HOMER. Homers in baseball unlike other sports announcers make the game more interesting IMO. Hope he sticks around. He is a White Sock unlike Stone. Not a fan of Stone but he knows his stuff for sure.