Two-Gun Pete

To that I say that middle IF defense is more important than the corners. I think that Moncada is better than Burger at defense, regardless of position. Hell, he's probably better at defense than Eloy, Sheets, and Vaughn are as well. Burger is more likely to shred his ankle again trying to make the turn at 2nd than he is playing 3rd. The athletic requirements at the corners is lower. Because he started having back injuries. Agreed that most 3B don't get moved around, but most aren't as athletic as Moncada is, either.

The same thing could have been said about Kris Bryant before they moved him around the field. Bryant never played anywhere but 3rd in MiLB. I agree that I wouldn't want to play Moncada at SS. I'd have him primarily play 3B, but I'd rather have him at 2B than the turds that are there. I'd rather have him try a corner OF, than watch Eloy/Sheets/Vaughn and their athletic limitations. The issue with 2B is the issue with a stars-and-scrubs roster: Moncada's great, but the negative fWAR shat upon the field by Harrison/Leury also actively hurts this team. The issue with the OF corners is that this roster doesn't really have any good ones, unless you really believe that grandpa Pollock's hamstrings will remain intact. [We've got a fair amount of DHs out in the OF corners, tho.]

Yeah, I'd be willing to risk a 60% insured QO to Rodon that he could pitch in enough games and perform better than Vince Velasquez could over an entire healthy season for VV. That difference ALONE, even if Rodon were to go down injured by years' end, could mean the difference between playing a series in Houston, Tampa, or Toronto, and facing those teams with HFA. But, yay! We've got a bullpen, and an injured 34 year old LFer in RF.

What's the over/under on games before he goes back on the IL?

I understand your concern. But meanwhile, the 35 year old "High Energy" Josh Harrison and "versatile" Leury Garcia have predictably combined to give you -0.6 fWAR. Not over an entire season, just in the 9 games this team has played. Already. Comparing who Moncada WAS, an immature rookie 2B, to what Moncada is TODAY isn't all that cogent, TBH. Warts and all, I'd be willing to bet that Moncada would provide more fWAR than "High Energy" and "Versatile" combined. Sooner or later, Harrison will be DFA'ed, and Leury will have to cover for some other injury elsewhere. Moncada presents to this org the opportunity to produce what ALL the top orgs have: A player who is both good at baseball, AND versatile. [Imagine that?]

I don't disagree. But my interest as a fan is for the team as a WHOLE to get better, not so much for individual players to get their own recognition. If Moncada moving around the diamond makes the team as a WHOLE better and more versatile, then I'll take that 11 times out of 10. Given what The Athletic wrote about versatility recently, I'm inclined to believe that a versatile Moncada >>>>>>>> a GG Moncada at 3rd and ONLY 3rd.

Yes, to all of these, and I said so during the offseason. Meanwhile, for your White Sox equivalents: Pollock injured. Again. Harrison starting his negative fWAR tear. Leury with a NEGATIVE wRC+. That said, its early, though what I wanted the SOX to do/what the scrubs actually did this offseason appears to have been the right way to go so far.

To be fair, Moncada was 3rd in the AL in DRS and UZR among 3rd basemen. So really, "good, but not GG." Also, how much of his struggles at 2B was Moncada maturing [remember him shoveling Twinkies down his hole as a rookie], and how much was it him having to adjust to MLB and life in Chicago? I think we're overestimating Moncada at 3rd a bit, and underestimating what he could be at other positions. I'd be open to him moving around the diamond, Kris Bryant-style. At least TRY it.

OK, so here's a crazy idea: Instead of devloving into an intellectually-lazy trope about "hating," ya coulda, ya know, just posted what you posted here? That aside, sure, we'd all like Burger to have more success before drawing any conclusions. But here's an even better idea: That the White Sox org EMBRACE versatility, instead of sticking with "one man/one spot." And if that means that you try Moncada at 2B or LF or RF instead of giving Leury 500 PAs, or giving Sheets ~60 starts in the OF, or Vaughn ~60 starts in the OF, fucking AWESOME! IMO, that would mean that those bozos in the FO would have actually learned something for a change. I know. I had too much going on to post, but that one was obvious. And I'll even admit, I didn't much care for the way the young man took care of himself, but maybe that's because Getz sucks at his job, and he let Burger try to eat his way out of baseball. That still ain't "hating Burger," so much as it is "hating the SOX FO." Yeah, its a never-ending cycle. Rinse, and repeat.

And there it is. The all-purpose phrase that comes up in most threads. Where do you see, "hate for Moncada?" Specifically, WHO on these boards, in your view, "hates Moncada?" I gotta admit, I don't see anyone who "hates Moncada," but that phrase gets thrown around here like a cheap $5 whore. My view is that more versatility is more better for this roster. If Kris Bryant, AFTER his ROY and AFTER his MVP awards can play all over the field, why not try it with Moncada as well? [Protip: this AIN'T "hate," BTW.] This org's view seems to be, "derrr, one man for one position. We'd rather use unathletic mastadons in the corner OF positions, than try an athetic guy out there. Besides, we got LEURY for versatility!"

Didn't the M's overachieve their pythagorean more than the SOX underachieved theirs in 21? IOW, wasn't the M's 2021 record artificial?

I'd be ok with using Moncada or TA at 2B on occasion, depending on matchups and opponents. I dont think that using Moncada at 2B is downgrading defense as much as some believe. Plenty of orgs are comfortable moving players around, giving them the advantage of depth through versatility. But with Burger, he's been injured pretty much every season he's been a professional. And though he's improved in this area, his conditioning should continue to be a concern, until he proves otherwise.

Well we ignore that point, because factually, a "budget" does not disallow multi-year commitments. Otherwise, how could LAAAAAA, who have a cheaper payroll than our SOX, have a "big multi-year commitment" to Trout?

And this is all about asset allocation. When you spend $11MM to get Harrison and Leury, AND spend $16.5MM on 2 RPs, it means you don't have that ~$27MM for a larger piece. Or, if you don't have the imagination to structure a deal to make it work, as in Suzuki's deal [on $8MM this year], you miss out on useful pieces. Or, if you don't want to offer opt-outs, then much of the top of the FA market won't bother to check in. This isn't about "not spending money," so much as its about spending money stupidly. No one can look at the 7th highest payroll in MLB, and call that organization "cheap." But, every person who partakes of MLB can call the Kimbrel trade, the refusal of the Rodon QO, and many other choices they've made, "stupid." When you stupidly give up 2 league minimum pieces to get a closer you don't need, the fallout is that you CAN'T later pay up for larger contracts. This isn't about "not allowing RH to spend money, as The Kids Can Play stated. This is about making stupid choices over and over again. This team has a higher payroll than LAAA, Houston, Atlanta, SF, and Toronto. That ain't "cheap," by any measure. LAAA has both the reigning MVP, and the best player any of us has seen play in its roster. Houston and Atlanta have been to the WS more recently than us. And SF and Toronto just could be every bit as good as our SOX, when you consider our lack of depth at crucial spots.

I dunno if the SPs are "more fragile;" there have only been 6 new teams added over the past half century. In that time, the US population went up some 100MM or so people, but MLB added what, ~72 or so MLB pitchers? I think that today's pitcher needs to throw harder because he's facing a fitter opponent at the plate than in the ~70s. You don't have many fat fucks in MLB rosters any more; most MLBers lift weights and keep themselves fit. You also don't have many ~60 wRC+ middle infielders today that can catch, but can't hit for shit any more. You also don't have as many drunks and chain cigarette smokers in MLB as you did back in the day. Also, teams use technology and video and coaching techniques today that yesteryear's player did not. These empower a hitter in ways that was unimaginable back in Nolan Ryan's day. All that said, I find it striking that TLR let Rodon go 114 pitches to get a no-no a year ago, but LAD pulled Kershaw after 80 pitches.

OK, this line of thinking needs to die a quick death. HERE IS A LINK for you to study whether or not JR lets "Hahn spend money" or not. Here, I'll help you: The Chicago White Sox DO spend money. They have the 7th-highest payroll in MLB. It is NOT a question of spending money. It is a question of whether or not those imbeciles in the FO are spending wisely or not. In my view, they spend, but they spend stupidly. THIS LINK will show you how they spend. When a team asset allocates as they've chosen to do, that team will have holes elsewhere. So again, the whole "JR is cheap" bullshit needs to die in a fire.

All of this is true. He will have to adjust to the adjustments made to him. But early returns look good for him. That said, his defense alone makes him worth the $8MM he's being paid this year. I'd bet that were he here instead of on the north side, this team would be 4-0. I'll also bet that he'll end up with more fWAR than Pollock this season, based on health alone.

Meh, the AV/Sheets thing will work itself out. IMO, the bigger issue is that if Velasquez shits his pants, then everyone who wasn't paying attention this offseason, and/or the RH apologists will finally figure out that SP depth is and was an issue, from the second they stupidly gave Rodon away for free. I REAALLLY want Velasquez to pitch well, so that RH doesn't compound his moronic TDL and offseason by making a stupid panic buy for a SP. Godspeed, Vince Velasquez. The future of this team hangs upon your shoulders. Fucking throw strikes today.

Hell go on to star in Mexico, together with Velasquez.

So, a real spring chicken in MLB terms, amirite? He's in his prime. Just like Encarnacion, Eaton, Harrison, and Kelly. This team really goes for youth in their acquisitions.

Velasquez is indeed a starter... ...In La Liga Mexicana de Beisbol. That aside, Spotrac has him as the 4th-highest paid RP in the roster, which I used as my source. Either way, he'll have to be DFA'ed at some point.

Do they actually need a 5th starter yet? I know this year's schedule is a bit tighter than usual, but most years you don't need a 5th starter until the ~2nd/3rd week of the season.

According to SPOTRAC, the average MLB org has 7 rostered SPs on their 40 man. The SOX, in their desperation, finally got to 7 SPs when they last-minuted their way into geezing geezer Johnny Cueto. Until Lynn and Giolito are healthy and productive, these stupid ideas of trading Vaughn will continue to pop up. It didn't have to be this way, but then, pre-injured Joe Kelly. I just hope that RH/KW aren't stupid enough to take the bait at some point, and actually trade away Vaughn.

Agreed. They could have retained Rodon, and still addressed 2B and RF, and still replaced departed/departing RP pieces, and still met their budget. They wouldn't have had the ability to land the exorbitant luxury of a $41MM bullpen, but other teams figure out how to compete without having to dump 21% of their payroll on RPs.

SPOTRAC SP Payrolls The highest SP Payroll: NYM are at $93MM, including their injured players and AAA types on the 40 man. NOTE: they have 7 SPs on their 40 man. The scrubs, who are supposedly not trying to compete, are at $55MM, and they have 8 SPs The SOX are at $46MM, with 6 SPs on the payroll: Keuchel, Lynn, Giolito, Cease, Kopech, and Stiever. So no, $62MM on SPs isn't terrible.