Two-Gun Pete

Yeah, that other poster Jason Hahn or whatever is being disingenuous. We know that QOs decrease a FA's market, for all but the absolute elite of free agents. Given that Rodon got $21.5MM for this season WITHOUT the QO, what could his price have been WITH the QO? I'm sure this research has been done before, but if we theorize a 10% decrease in his offers with a QO, he'd be at all of $19.35MM for this season instead of $21.5MM. IOW, all of $900k or so more than the QO itself.

Indeed. Losing your top 2 SPs, plus giving away your 3rd best SP from a year ago is how you have Vince Fucking Velasquez as your OD starter. Signing pre-injured and 33 year old Joe Kelly is how you end up with Crick shitting his pants. But, "let it go," right? Stop "whining " and "complaining," because they traded for Moncada years ago, I guess.

So, if in fact DFA candidate Vince Velasquez is the OD starter, this really sticks in your craw as a fan. And every fucking time you want to "let go" of the myriad shitty things that this FO does, something else pops up to remind us of how incompetent they are.

This is more concerning to me than the pen shitting their pants.

162-0. If yew don't believe this, yew ain't a Sox fan. You're a complainer and a whiner.

Firstly, go ahead and look at my posting history. I've always stated that starting pitching was a need. Secondly, I do not insult anyone one these boards, apart from RH, who has richly deserved every scrap of scorn he receives. Don't believe me? Check my posting history. OTOH, you've used the global term "pitching" as a need, vice SPs or RPs. (Also, I had to re-read your second sentence to tease out what I think you've intended.)

Nah, stupid Samsung spellchecker went to "papers" instead of "posters." Thanks for the assist.

First, no. We SHOULD discuss Rodon, as it pertains to this FO's shitty reading of the market, and as a generally stupid move. Sweeping it under the rug gives RH a pass. Second, whenever a QO is offered/refused, we know for certain that a player's market dwindles. We've seen that with Keuchel and Kimbrel when they refused their QOs, and we are likely seeing it with Conforto. Rodon probably would have refused the QO, but then his offered would have shrank. His $22MM/per offer without the QO isn't "THAT MUCH" more than the QO; with the QO, his offers would have been more similar to the QO. Lastly, I don't get why some are celebrating the Pollock and Cueto moves. Anyone could have seen months ago that they needed a real OFer. And anyone could have seen the need for SP depth the heartbeat those morons gave Rodon away for free. The Pollock and Cueto moves were reactive, rather than proactive. They were driven by desperation, rather than intentional design. And while I guess its better to have scraped the bottom of the barrel than to be without these two, the process and outcomes of landing these two were suboptimal.

You're welcome to search my posting history to see what I've said on this. I would expect strawman arguments from *other posters, but not from an educator.

Yeah, it feels like RHs inaction on this team's real needs has invited FO aggression from the rest of the division.

I think that the OFers Atlanta acquired at the TDL out them in better position than adding RH a closer they didn't need. I also thought that trading from the 26 man roster was suicide. Convince us otherwise, because the Commissioner's Trophy isn't in Chicago.

Yes. A TDL move to address an actual need =/= an move. At the TDL, a FO often "gets what they can," because there's no TDL free agency during midseason. Atlanta did not go into the season with those guys as their OD plans. RH has planned on: Encarnacion, Eaton, Harrison, and now Pollock as OD plans, despite other options being available in free agency.

Oh goody, I get called "pal!" I've already addressed their luck factor. But, they needed OFers, so they got some. The SOX org has needed a RFer since JD lost his ability to move. The current team has needed a RFer since they traded for Mazara. Instead, they got an old, expensive closer who never pitched in a setup role prior to coming here. And, who cares if the SOX bullpen is/was better than Atlanta's? They decided it was "good enough," and addressed their needs. Addressing your needs puts you into position to take advantage of good luck. And we can show this in a clear example: Stupidly trading for a closer you don't need means that Kimbrel pitches in game 2 at Houston, instead of Tepera or Kopech. It also means that TLR has Leury playing RF instead of an actual OFer. Had RH made some attempt to address the now 15 year hole in RF, an actual OFer catches that ball that Leury missed. Whats more, Kimbrel never pitches in that game, and the series goes back to Chicago 1-1.

Didn't have to be. The saw their needs and addressed them. They were absolutely fortunate that LAD & SF faced each other first, and they were fortunate to not have to face McCullers. But they put themselves into position to take advantage of their good luck by addressing their actual needs at the TDL, instead of doing what RH did. I view "setting themselves back a year" as meaning "deferring the opportunity to improve by a year." I disagree, in that there won't be the same opportunities at this TDL as there were last TDL. I think the same about this offseason vs next offseason. They've squandered assets on things they didn't need. Players get older year over year. And a team's needs changes year over year. Players salaries increase year over year. And thats why I see it more as "shortening the window," rather than "setting themselves back a year." Any of us could have seen this as being a bigger need than a closer the second they cut Eaton loose last season. Better choices could and should have been made by a FO with this level of experience, IMO. And, color me doubtful that an old man like Pollock will succeed where other old men have failed. Im hopeful that I can have a hearty plateful of crow later this season, but I'm also agist against old ballplayers.

I could see putting Cease in a list of darkhorses. But putting Kopech anywhere near a list of Cy darkhorses is gilting the Lilly a bit. To, thats the more pronounced clickbait here.

Seems like more clickbait from mlb.com

I generally agree with the overall tenor of this post. However, I think that they've shortened the window, and worsened the overall talent of the roster, moreso than "setting themselves back a year." I think Atlanta are an example of a FO being honest with themselves about what they needed, and then going to attempt to address their actual needs. They weren't shifting defensively, and they corrected it. They needed OFers, and so they got some. There's a lesson for RH/KW in what Atlanta did, but people who have had their jobs as long as they've had them should have already known this.

Since we're listing SPs that make up the dregs, how about Julio Teheran?

Wait, you said that RPs could be more important, and that the rotation was fine, yes?

Indeed. Sadder than you thinking about me as much as you do?

What, weren't you excited about Graveman, Kelly, and Velasquez?

About this move? Nah. They finally bothered to get off their asses to address an actual hole in the roster this offseason. They basically removed half of the negative DRS from last year's team with one move. Now, about the disastrous drafting and development? Maybe we can chat about that sometime. I'm flattered that you think of me, though. Thanks for keeping me front of mind.

Uhhh, Julio Teheran, maybe?

Dude, anyone could have seen that Hernandez was a regression risk waiting ro happen. And you never trade in division with FOs that are smarter than your own. Its one reason why I HATED them not loving heaven and earth to get Escobar instead. (And yes, we heard that they "didn't like Escobars medicals," but given that he's been healthy as a horse, I'd say that just shows how incompetent the medical staff has been.)

So, yeah, if they never did the moronic Kimbrel trade, that's $16MM for this season, PLUS ~$8MM in last season salaries, less Heuer's minimum salaries between the 2nd half of last year, plus this year; call it ~$1.2MM between the seasons. On this, the SOX would be up $22MM or so. Then, tack on the difference between Harrison’s salary THIS year, less Madrigal league minimum salary, so what, $5MM, less ~$1.2MM, so call it $3.8MM. So, between all of this, the SOX could have had $25-ishMm in savings.