Two-Gun Pete

The fact that there are so many disposable/DFA candidates still in camp speaks to the inefficiency of last TDL. We've all known that there aren't now and there weren't then any plans for Rutherford, Yermin, or really, Adolfo. Why weren't these pieces used to get what they needed? (i.e. Escobar went to Milwaukee for 2 AAAA types; Yimi Garcia went to Houston for 2 AAAA types.) I get that they had/have scant value, but looking around MLB, other FOs seem to be able to get something for these types of guys. Rebuilding types trying to save cash always seem to have the ability to take a flier on AAAA-types as well.

At the TDL, I had the needs, in order, as: 1. SOLVE RF, then 2. Find a cromulent 2B, then 3. Find vs RHP solution(s) for the lineup, then 4. Find a backup catcher who can add value defensively and in game calling, then finally 5. Add affordable depth to the 'pen. Since then, they’ve solved #5 with a very expensive carton of bullets, but allowed the needs to become: 1. SOLVE RF, then 2. Add rotation depth, then 3. Find a cromulent 2B, then 4. Find a defensive C to backup our achy/aging one, then 5. (Before the post-season), find solution(s) for tough RHP. Seems to me that there's been an abject lack of prioritization by this FO. It still could work out, but perhaps not as well as they think it will. We'll see.

And we've already covered this many times. The Rays had different needs than the SOX. They also have much more MiLB depth from which to trade. Most importantly, they're actually competent enough to have not blown a hole in their MLB roster to add something they didn't need. Or, are you trying to argue that it was GOOD to add Kimbrel? If so, please share with us. Thanks in advance.

Yeah, damn pesky Rays for actually putting in the work into scouting and developing players. And damn them, too, for recognizing that RPs are supposed to be cheap.

Wut?

Nah, the best case scenario would be for RH to go in front of the media and say something like: "We believe in Andrew and his talent and potential. But, we've asked him to do something that isn't really fair to him, which is for him to play a position for which he really isn't ideally suited. After talking it over with Kenny, Jerry, and Tony, we've decided to announce the signing of Michael Conforto to be our everyday Right Fielder. Andrew, and some of the other younger guys will STILL have a role for us, as we pursue a World Series title. But, we've decided to give them the time and space to become everything they can, so that they can be everything we've planned them to be...."

Yes, I'll snicker at the FGDC projection that has him down for 143 IP, because he hasn't once made it to even half that IP at this level. Also, this FO did exactly "Jack" and "Shit" to stretch him out to be a starter for this season. By contrast, Carlos Rodon HAS actually pitched > 130 IP on more than one occasion at this level. And yes, I've given him plenty of grief in the past for being a two-legged hippo as well. But, once again, Rodon has proven things at this level that Kopech simply hasn't as yet. And Kopech has been given a disservice by this org in they way they've used him and the way they've prepared him. Thats a fair opinion, but one with which I'll disagree. My view is/was that the trashtros were more talented, better coached/managed, had fewer downside risks to their roster, and had more playoff experience than the 2021 White Sox. Taken together, I had thought that 2022 would have presented a better opportunity for the SOX vs Houston, if the FO took the correct approach. Alas, we have the most expensive bullpen in MLB history, and Josh Harrison at 2B. We'll have to see how it all works out.

Good point. Dusty Baker is actively being supervised by the capable trashstros FO. Hes also being ably assisted by his bench coach and pitching coach. In effect, Houston have "Dusty-proofed" their roster in a way that the SOX have not "Tony-proofed" theirs. Actually, they've enabled TLR, through their acquisitions, and their coaches who can't seem to counter TLR's most base tendencies. Those SPECIFIC players? Who knows. An equally fair question is, "Do you trust that those players will give you 140+ games played this year?" Or, do you trust that the 34 & 35 year old SPs to stay healthy all year long? Or the aging C with achy knees to NOT be overused by the ancient alcoholic? Or the DHs in the OF to not get hurt? We'll see. And, as others have said, do you trust that the SOX will have as few man-days missed in 2022 as they did in 2021? Seeing AV go down reminds me that Joe Kelly can't play RF or 2B or help vs RHP, any more than Kimbrel could have done the same thing at the TDL. But, thank God for the most expensive bullpen in MLB history, amirite? Yes, and they also (snicker) have him projected to throw 143 IP. I'll take the under on that one; Kopech couldn't even get to 70 IP a year ago without going on the IL.

OK, let's examine this idea fairly: Houston lost 5.8 fWAR from their 2021 team when Carlos Correa walked out the door. They're replacing him with Jeremy Pena, whose ZIPs projection has him at 2.2 fWAR for 2022. They also have a competent FO and manager running things. By contrast, the White Sox let 4.9 fWAR walk free when they stupidly failed to give the QO to Carlos Rodon. They replaced him with Vince Velasquez, who will likely provide NEGATIVE fWAR before being DFA'ed. They also have an old drunk managing the team, a bench coach and pitching coach who apparently won't disagree with him, and one of the more incompetent FOs in the game. So, I'm gonna go ahead and say that the trashtros are still better overall than the White Sox. The trashtros might have taken a step back talent-wise from 2021. But the White Sox took a LARGER step backwards, talent-wise. The White Sox are also lead by an incompetent FO and manager, while the trashtros have some competence to their FO and manager.

# 1 & 3. The fact that Oakland have been beating the everloving shit of the SOX FO for over 20 years is not a reason for celebration. It merely shows that KW/RH vs Oakland is like you or me vs Usain Bolt in the 200 meter. Also, thank you for reminding me of how this FO both bought high and sold low on Swisher. It really inspires confidence in those bums. #2. And this is important: Posters routinely gloss over the overall shittiness of a trade. The Samardzija trade was a fireable offense FIRSTLY because it never should have happened in the first place. That was a team that came off a 73 win season. And NO series of moves was going to add 25+ wins to their record. So even BEFORE you consider cost, the Samardzjia rapeage, like the Shields and Kimbrel trades, should have been aborted at conception. None of them would have gotten the Sox over the top. So all of them were stupid ideas in the first place. Now, adding in that they couldn't self-scout Semien or Bassitt, as well as bother to do, like, ANYTHING to improve Semien's defense, just shows how lazy and dumb they were and are. Insofar as a theoretical or Manea trade, I have full confidence in Oakland to once again embarrass, humiliate, and crush RH/KW in trade negotiarion. I also have confidence that once Montas or Manea leave Oakland, that they'd regress to being "just guys" once here.

Yes, we're in the window right now. But, I don't know if THIS FO has the ability to match wits with Oakland's. Ok, now don't get amped up by this, because you got amped up when I called the Kimbrel trade, "stoopid." To answer your question, starting with ~3-ish fWAR 2Bman Ray Durham for a middle relief prospect Jon Adkins. To this day, Beane calls that trade, "his best trade ever." Then the Billy Koch trade for Keith Foulke. And of course, the Samardzjia rapeage. This one alone should have been a fireable offense. I'm not seeing a whole lot of wins in trading with Oakland here. Do you see any sort of fair deals between these two FOs? I don't.

Recall that this same FO willingly gave up 24 years of control over 4 'spects to get a mediocre Jeff Samardzija from the same org that control Manea and Montas. The loss of controllable fWAR CAUSED this org to be "mired in mediocrity." A trade with Oakland would be disastrous, IMO. I think that Oakland have ripped off the SOX enough times to prove this to be true. This. And, I'm reluctant to trade Crochet or Vaughn. It really didn't have to be this way, but here we are.

I agree with all of this. However, I dont think this team has the ammo to get Montas or Manea. We're already into spring training, and all of a fortnight away from OD. I think that a trade for Montas or Manea is wishcasting, unfortunately. I also think that those who still hold out hope for a last-minute move to salvage this offseason are still in the "bargaining" phase; once OD passes, it'll be a cavalcade of "acceptance." The best case scenario, IMO, is for a NL contender to have a series of SIGNIFICANT RP injuries, AND for Kimbrel to not shit his pants, AND for that NL team to also have a surplus piece that we could use for THIS year. Now, if all of that comes to fruition, then it'll be hats off to Rick Hahn. I dont see all of this happening our way, unfortunately.

Accept that this window closes the second that Giolito files for FA. I once bought into the "multiple championships" bullshit as well. But this FO has done everything possible to sabotage and shorten this window. We've got 2022, and 2023, and thats it... Unless Kopech and Crochet become a lot more durable, and/or a few pieces from the league's worst system surprise us. They assembled an aging stars-and-scrubs rotation, and a stars-and-scrubs lineup, with square pegs in the OF corners. I'll allow that it theoretically "could work," but then you're counting on a series of unlikely outcomes to take place.

Dude, you lit me up for posting pretty much all of the bolded, going back to the TDL. Thank you for coming around on this. In watching Velasquez predictably shit his pants today, I wanted to focus on the $ value of 1 WAR, and how this offseason has sucked. Everything you posted about the moronic squandering of CBT space on 1 IP/outing RPs is absolutely true. I also have been looking around, but I believe that RH has successfully assembled the most expensive bullpen in MLB history. According to Spotrac, I think this is true, but I want to verify. Anyway, some posters dismissed the idea of Rodon and the QO. Recall that it was a 1 year commitment at $18.4MM; all Rodon would have had to do would have been to pitch ~90 IP, at only ~70% as well as he did in 2021 to be worth the QO. Now, Velasquez will either fuck up this team's chances, or force RH to trade from a position of weakness. Elsewhere on the diamond, to your point Escobar should have been the move to make at 2B. At RF, if Conforto was always a pipe dream, then Joc should have been the move. Between these two, the WAR production would have been more effective use of limited budget space than 3 obese RP contracts. Back home in Chicago, the talking heads on radio are focused on the overall $ amount spent, NOT what was actually accomplished this offseason. The imbeciles in the press dont have a clue on just how bad this offseason has gone. Levine continues to tweet shit that is unlikely to happen. I suspect that media types and writers will finally catch up to what we now know about how RH fucked up, say, around Memorial Day. Or, whenever Harrison and Velasquez are DFA'ed. Fun times.

Wait, just a few posts ago, you wrote, ..."One: Why isn't that a permanent team," as if you weren't aware. Now, you're trying to play it off as if you were. You made the claim that, "Biden put together a team to plan strategy," which really wasn't true. More like NATO made a workgroup, and then you Gregg'ed it up. I get that you gotta protect your ego from being asked to cite your sources. But, NO ONE is attacking you, OK? Citing your sources is really a matter of courtesy to do so. Thats all.

2005, baby! 2005.

Fair enough. Don't stop believin'. But yes, this FO IS "that dumb." These are the geniuses that gave you the Jon Adkins, Billy Koch, Jeff Samardzija, James Shields, and Craig Kimbrel trades. These are the bozos who antagonized Giolito over a mere $50k. These are the guys who just "had to" assemble the most expensive bullpen in the history of the league, but couldn't see that Rodon was worth the QO. These are the guys that felt it to be "good business" to sign a geezing geezer at DH 2 seasons ago, at RF last season, and 2B THIS season, but can't connect the dots between age and performance decline. Go ahead and believe, if you so wish to do so. But don't be antagonized by ME and others telling you that this FO is "that dumb." Be antagonized by the FO that IS "that dumb."

Who cares? He's unlikely to sign here.

Why are you doing this to yourself? You're setting yourself up to be as embittered as others are at this org. Now, you asked a question, and I'll answer: Given the loss of a pick, I'd have to have an option for a second year at a minimum. At the same time, Conforto would want an opt out, if his performance returns to its pre-covid years levels. So, I dunno how to solve this, maybe a mutual option? That said, resolve yourself. Conforto is unlikely to sign here.

You made it sound as though there were not people working on scenarios "all the time," and said that "Biden put together a team to plan strategy," as if the Pentagon doesn't work on this already. Had you said that the US and NATO put together a workgroup to collaboratively strategize the current situation, you would have been accurate. Again, the Pentagon works on this sort of thing "all the time." What we may or may not do is to work collaboratively with our allies on an active shooting war adjacent to our allies. And yes, do cite your sources, or you gregg up threads. It takes all of ~10 seconds to do, and is a common courtesy for the rest of us. Hell, at a bare minimum, the phrase, "I saw over on NYT that...." would have been better than a gregg of a post, without bothering with citation.

Don't Stop Believin'

I dont care about you proving your stepson's assignment. Its good that there are servicemen to do the work that veterans like myself used to do. Thank you to your stepson. But to the "tiger team," this really isn't at all as you had originally described it. The Pentagon, West Point, and both military and civilian intelligence types work on this sort of thing "all the time." The "tiger team," as described by the NYT, is a NATO workgroup specific to the current conflict.

Im glad you do. But when you post something, its common courtesy to source what you post. Otherwise, if you just post what you see, you come off as a Greg.

Exactly right. Even if Rodon only pitched 80 IP, he would have been a perfect pairing with Kopech. I happen to believe that Rodon will reach 100-120 IP this season easily, and perhaps more than that. And I'd been critical of Rodon for having previously been a two-legged hippo in the past. His (apparent) newfound commitment to his body could help him remain more healthy than in the past.