Black_Jack29

QUOTE (soxforlife05 @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 06:46 PM) I can't think of any reason not to trade Melky, Robertson, Gonzalez, or Shields. I guess Frazier you could hope he rebounds to finish the year and sell in the offseason but no reason with the others. We have nobody to replace Frazier or Melky with, unless we trade for those pieces later on. I'd be in favor of signing Frazier to an extension. We didn't trade Shields because he's old, inconsisten, and semi-expensive. Therefore, nobody wanted him. I can't justify not dealing Robertson and Gonzalez, though.

If he's still being a head case, I'd pass. Avi is cheaper and isn't a clubhouse cancer.

QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 04:43 PM) Robertson's contract may have worked against the Sox Possibly. JR typically doesn't like to eat parts of contracts as part of a trade, so that may have handcuffed Hahn somewhat.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 05:11 PM) Betts is worth more than Sale alone We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. Betts is a really nice player, but he's not a perennial All-Star with borderline-HOF skills. Starting pitchers can also dominate a game by themselves, and that makes them more valuable to a playoff team than a single position player. Betts' main advantage over Sale is that he's cheaper and under team control for one extra year.

QUOTE (TRU @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 04:46 PM) If the Sox couldn't even get 4-5 of the Red Sox top prospects for Sale, what makes you think Sale and Melky gets you, not only, Bradley or Betts BUT ALSO 2 other top 5 prospects? If you're arguing that Sale and his contract are worth less than that, you're fooling yourself. The fact that Hahn didn't reach an agreement with Dombrowski today doesn't prove anything, as none of us know what they discussed. Given that the Red Sox didn't trade for a starting pitcher with another team, it's possible that they had limited interest in Sale to begin with and were prepared to go into the playoffs as is. That could change this winter.

QUOTE (TRU @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 03:16 PM) You cant trade Sale if you want to compete. He is young, he has a great contract, and he is one of the best pitchers in the league. Why on earth would you trade that guy with the mindset that you are trying to make the playoffs and win a championship? Cant and wont be done. You pretty much have to trade Sale when your ML squad can't score enough runs play .500 ball, you have no offensive talent in your farm system, and you don't have the money to fill the holes via free agency. If you can deal Sale and Melky for Bradley or Betts, plus two other Top 5 prospects in the Red Sox system, you have better chance of competing in 2018 without Sale than you do with him and the current cast of aging mediocrity around him.

QUOTE (BrianAnderson @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 01:34 PM) My first post aside ... not trading Robertson and a few of the smaller pieces is asinine though. Waiting until you have the best informed, well made decision on Sale and Quintana (since they are not FA for a while) makes sense. Not trading some of the other pieces? Dumb. Robertson may not be at peak value right now, but I believe he'll net more this year than he will next year ... I basically agree with this. Robertson was just OK this year and, being on the wrong side of 30, he may be declining. That was the strongest argument for dealing him now. I also think that Gonzalez should've been dealt, as his value will become nil if he regresses back to his 2015 numbers. Next season, Fulmer would take Gonzalez's place and it might be possible to convert Jones to a closer. On the other hand, I'm OK with holding onto Frazier and Melky for now because our other options at those positions are not so great (Davidson, Tilson, Engel, etc.).

QUOTE (TRU @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 02:45 PM) There is no situation where you trade Sale and/or Quintana AND still be able to compete next season. No other position player on this team worth trading will bring back anything to change that as well. If this team is going to compete, it needs to 1.) Sign Free Agents or 2.) Trade prospects for established players. There is no realistic situation where one of Sale, Q, or Eaton are traded and the big league team gets better. This team is begging for a rebuild, enough half measures already or 3.) trade Sale for a package of prospects AND a young, established player I tend to agree that, regardless of what they do, the Sox will not be contenders in 2017. That said, if they make the right moves this winter, they could have a solid team in 2018.

QUOTE (TRU @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 03:37 PM) So how can this team rise up from mediocre status with a lousy FA market this winter? We have very little to trade, I don't think we have all that much flexibility with the payroll. How are we not looking at more or less the same team next season? Because the Sox can trade players this winter, when you have a larger trade market (not just contenders) and this season's playoff teams may be willing to deal ML talent, and not just prospects.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 03:28 PM) Its not just Sale, I don't think anyone minds the idea of holding Sale and Q to the winter. Its keeping guys like Frazier, Cabrera, Robertson, Shields, and Gonzalez, guys that have their values enhanced by teams being in win now mode and the limited availability of assets. Those are the guys you need to get deals for. The market for closers and the releif market in general has been insane, and the Sox failed to capitalize. The Yankees just pulled in a pitcher drafter 1.4 last year for two months of 39 yo Carlos Beltran. There were plenty of deals to be made. The FO did nothing to improve the future (long and short term) of this team. One thing to consider is that if they dealt all of those guys, they wouldn't have a team to put on the field next season. The FA market this winter is going to be very slim. I don't know why they didn't deal Robertson and Gonzalez. I understand why they didn't deal the rest of them.

QUOTE (flavum @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 03:16 PM) Disappointed and surprised nothing happened, but considering the weak free agent market, I'm willing to be patient to see what happens by mid December. This Plenty of opportunities to deal Sale this winter.

QUOTE (TRU @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 02:48 PM) To be perfectly honest, I would be just fine if they said Moncada, Benintendi, and Devers for Sale. Done Deal. Obviously, I don't know the specifics of the discussions, but if were dicking around with lottery ticket A Ball players being added im just dumbfounded by it. That's 3 of the top 23 prospects in baseball, 2 of which are performing at a high level in Double A. That's MORE than enough for Chris Sale. This will more than likely be an unpopular take on the proposed Sale packages I might want one more lower-level prospect, but I might be convinced to do that deal as well.

QUOTE (Charlie Haeger's Knuckles @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 02:43 PM) 15 minutes to the "Here's why we did nothing" RickyGM press conference It's not imperative that they do anything today. Plenty of opportunities this winter.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 02:25 PM) Why is that such a priority? Enough of the retooling bulls***, I'm more than fine with getting only minor league prospects and waiting for them to develop. If you trade Sale, you have no business in receiving MLB ready talent. Bradley and Betts are both under team control through 2020. That's right around the time that Q and Eaton hit free agency, so either of those two would fit in with the plan.

QUOTE (heirdog @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 02:21 PM) Im starting to get the feeling that DD is like some Soxtalk posters...beating a dead horse. No Boegarts, Betts, Bradley or Moancada, then no Sale, Dave. See you at the winter meetings when you will put them in play after missing out on the playoffs. That'd be fine with me.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 02:19 PM) MLBN says Moncada definitely won't be traded, but Benintendi would be included for Sale... nothing groundbreaking here If that's the case, I'd include Melky in the deal and try to get Betts (plus two of their top 5 prospects).

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 02:10 PM) I don't get the feeling Melky is going anywhere (haven't seen his name mentioned in the slightest). If Hahn wants a mix of prospects and ML talent in a package for Sale, including Melky might help.

QUOTE (bmags @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 01:46 PM) Them setting a price and sticking to it is exactly why we have JB Shuck as our starting CFer. Their prices are terrible. They are both incredibly conscious of how a longterm expensive deal can hamstring a team and completely ignorant of how their routine raiding and horrible player development hamstrings them longterm. If Sale must be traded for one price that doesn't exist, then, you can finish that. I have complete confidence a better GM could have created a more interesting package for Sale by starting a bidding war at a lower price than by saying "give me your major league offense!" to a bunch of playoff teams. No, the Sox not drafting/developing offensive talent is why Shuck is our staring CFer. I think it's perfectly rational for Hahn to ask for the moon for Sale right now, when he'll be available for four playoff runs. This winter, when he'll be available for three playoff runs, Hahn can lower his price.

QUOTE (shipps @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 12:41 PM) I think it was Heyman this morning on the radio saying that the Sox were more motivated to move Sale because his return appears to be double of Quintana's. People dont think of Q as a number 1 so that dont want to give what he is worth. Q is totally an ace in my opinion. Sale is a power pitcher, and some argue that those guys dominate more in the postseason (I don't know if that's completely true).

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 12:32 PM) Phil Rogers on MLBN talking Sale and Sox right now. He says we won't budge from our price and we'll wait until the deadline to see if someone takes it. Good. That's exactly what we should be doing.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 12:23 PM) Maybe at the moment. Looks like they still can use some starting pitching. Gonzalez, maybe?

QUOTE (shipps @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 12:13 PM) The Redsox musts be close enough to warrant the energy from the Sox. Either that or DD is trying to keep Hahn and Kenny's attention focused on them and not on making deals with Boston's playoff competition.

QUOTE (bmags @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 12:07 PM) Except next year shouldn't matter. But it will. Puig's under team control until 2020, so he'd be more than a one-year rental. I'd rather have him than Shields, but I could easily see a scenario where Puig morphs into Avi with a stronger arm.

Puig would make some sense, as the Sox are probably not going to be able to land a CF in FA this winter. Eaton will probably have to return to CF regardless.

QUOTE (Deadpool @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 11:36 AM) I'll take Puig for Shields Me too