SonofaRoache

This thread is in dire need of a rumor.

QUOTE (cjgalloway @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 10:23 PM) Good news! Have likely or real is that rumor with us and the yankees? Also what is considered "no top prospects"? No Giolito? No Lopez? Or do we really not know still No Kopech or Giolito is being reported by everyone. May include players on the MLB and mid level guys. Rumor has it the O's owner is frightened to deal with us like a punk. May even put in the deal that we wont trade with them.

QUOTE (cjgalloway @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 10:12 PM) I haven't been on the page in a day so I'd rather not read 50 pages.. Is there any info/rumors on who might or is definitely not involved here? No top prospects involved apparently. O's don't like us because we may trade with Spankees.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 05:55 PM) I still think this is idiotic. There are better ways to think outside the box. If the White Sox wanted to be more strategic, they would reinvest some of JR’s money into rebuilding Puerto Rico, working with an unimpeachable non profit like Habitat for Humanity. Send some of the players and coaches down on a goodwill tour, especially anyone with family ties to PR. Or even a low interest loans/micro finance approach. https://www.lavidabaseball.com/puerto-rico-...nte-needs-help/ They could help to finance the restoration and completion of Roberto Clemente Sports City, for example. Hire Javy Vasquez, Roberto Alomar, Jose Valentin, Roberto Hernandez and one of the Molina’s (can also work with the catchers as a coach for part of the year) as Sox Ambassadors. Dennis Martinez probably has too many ties to Orioles, but he would be the best. They could even buy these two houses in San Juan that are currently worth way less than $840,000 combined (after the earthquake) in order to alleviate financial stress on the Clemente family. https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/36-Calle...id/?view=public 36-B, adjoining property, also for sale. Make them the HQ of a new Sox Baseball Academy in PR. Invest less than $15 million, which has to be lower than the opportunity cost of surrendering Cease and Fulmer, you have X percentage higher probability of signing any Puerto Rican player and you also have an “in” with potential PR draft picks. In fact, Nolan Arenado’s mother is Puerto Rican...father is Cuban. Do all the things as outlined, we have a much better shot at Arenado than we do being the highest bidder for Machado. Yeah because they are gonna be so happy that we faked helped them so we could get them to consider us. Let's also pay the rent for poor families in Chicago to get elite talent to want to play on the Bulls.

QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 03:11 PM) Again, absolutely no way you can claim this. I can in fact claim this because our GM is trying to trade for him instead of waiting. I believe our GM is doing this for a reason, that reason being he isn't confident in FA. That belief is backed up by him saying it's good to get players comfortable with your organization first in an interview.

QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 02:29 PM) Absolutely no way you can claim this It's absolutely no way to claim he wont re-sign either, but people are making that claim. The point is our odds go from almost nothing to solid. I know this because if it weren't the case, Hahn wouldn't try to trade for him now. So clearly Hahn doesn't think his chances are good if he waits til FA.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 02:11 PM) So you answered the question. There is still going to be a FA battle for Machado. This exercise is not creative, it's destructive. You lessen your talent pool in 2019 so you can show a player how nice you are for a season. Then another team will come along and show how much nicer they actually are by offering more money, and you will be worse off than you are now. No one has said there wont be a battle. I'm not sure where you are getting that from. What we are saying is our odds go from probably 5 percent to 75 percent if he does like it here AND we pay him. If we wait for him to be a FA we have to hope he just really wants to be here for no apparent reason over other teams that are more attractive.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 02:03 PM) If this strategy is so sound, how come it is hardly ever used? Not by the White Sox, not by anyone. Bartolo Colon, Andruw Jones, Kevin Youkilis are a few guys the Sox picked up with a year or so on their deals. I know they tried to bring Colon and Youk back, but it didn't seem to work. Those guys went to other teams, where they had never played before. What sound strategy have the White Sox used to attract big named MLB proven talent to sign in FA? Teams like the Sox aren't going to win FA battles often for eite talent. We end up having to trade for damaged goods and old has beens. The Sox have to get creative in finding ways to bring young elite talent here. It may fail but so has everything else. Even if we trade two nice pieces, our rebuild still will be loaded with talent. Those guys you listed are not elite or young talents we want for the next 10 years.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 01:55 PM) Everyone has different experiences working or playing or eating or being in the same places. What makes it a slam dunk that Machado's experience would be so great the White Sox would be in the front of the line. It's not a slam dunk at all. What is close to a slam dunk is if he does like it here and we pay up, he will more than like re-sign. Whereas if he isn't here, and he's deciding simply on money and perception, we'd probably not even get a seriously look. When you're battling against teams like the Yanks and BoSox for elite talent and money is similar, you are in trouble. Any advantage you can get, take it.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 12:35 PM) If Manny Machado can't see that this team is going to be a monster in 2020 then I look forward to beating the tar out of whatever team he plays for. That's the problem with our thinking, rebuilds don't always turn into monsters. Most of them actually fail or just end up mediocre. He may see some talent, but that talent has done little at this point to warrant the benefit of the doubt (although Kopech, Giolito, Moncada, and Jiminez are showing promise). Our hope is that changes next season in the majors and minors.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 01:39 PM) So notably: -Kenley Janson signed with Dodgers for less money (returning team or big market?) - Justin Turner signed with Dodgers for less money (returning team or big market) - Jason Heyward signed with Cubs for less money (...big market?) - Dexter Fowler signed with Cards for most money - Yo Cespedes is up for debate. - Chapman went to Yanks for most money ...It happens but...it sure seems like some of the bigger franchises have been getting discounts despite it being incredibly perverse To be fair, Chapman was with the Yankees before, and Fowler won a Championship with the lovable losers, so he could money chase at that point. I don't think rental players would take a discount without success being imminent. And success is not imminent here.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 01:04 PM) And amazingly he signed with Seattle without ever playing there. Wasn't Cano already 31 when he signed that deal? Makes sense why no one crossed 200 million for his services. Machado is 25 so teams will definitely offer money to the ceiling. Also, I think the Yankees know if they are going to pay luxury taxes and if they're going after him I don't think money is an issue.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 10:57 AM) If we think "culture" might matter, then how do we know ours is the culture he might like? I think money will matter and pay him the most and he'll come here, but that means I think culture doesn't matter. For those who think it does...they have to prove that he'll be 110% happy on a losing, kid-loaded team where occasionally the starter gives up 9 runs because he's a rookie or the bullpen rookies blow 6 games in a row. If you believe "The culture thing" will matter, that's the downside risk. People think our culture will somehow be a big selling point, but there's just as much reason to worry. Just pay the guy. People agree with you. The point is we want to pay him top dollar AND have him here getting acclimated to the city and team, that chemistry is important. I don't think anyone is saying ask for a discount because he would have been here for a year. We simply want an advantage when the money is equal to other offers or a little more. If we wait to FA, he will still see a losing team anyway and without that experience here may not even give us a real look.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 05:26 AM) This relevant quote, from an article on MLBTraderumors.com, may provide some insight: "The Sox are apparently willing to address Angelos’ concerns, as Nightengale writes that “if the Orioles even wanted it in writing that they’d keep him around until at least mid-summer,” Chicago would be fine with that assurance. This would be quite an unusual type of trade provisio, of course, and one that Angelos may still not be fine with if he wants to eliminate any chance of Machado wearing Yankee pinstripes in 2018." This is so stupid. If Machado and the Yankees want to date it's going to happen. If not in 2018, it will in 2019. But the Sox don't have to trade him to the Yankees anyway, there will be other good offers anyway from contenders if it were to go south.

QUOTE (whitesoxwinner @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 09:35 PM) Is everybody down on Blake Rutherford? I still think he can be a stud. He was a young kid who struggled after getting traded. I still see a ton of talent/potential once he grows into his body. More like meh on him right now. He was always a wildcard with great talent. If you get something out of him great, if not oh well.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 08:47 PM) It was embarrassing hearing Sox fans pronounce his name on the Score today His name is pronounced how it looks, not sure how that is possible.

QUOTE (soxforlife05 @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 06:51 PM) I wanted Devers to make it Moncada, Kopech, Devers but in hindsight that's actually a ton. Would've been nice to get a better player to round out the deal but teams are always going to be hesitant with Sale's perceived arm risk. You're not getting two top 10 prospects and Devers in that type of deal in 2017.

QUOTE (oldsox @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 06:23 PM) ChrisnfreakingSale should have gotten at least 3 real prospects, we got two. Face it, DD hoodwinked RH when he added Diaz and Basabe. It's over, who cares. I was just sticking up for Balta. We got the top position and pitching prospects in baseball. What were you really expecting back?

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 05:23 PM) People losing their damn minds over rumors. Come on, what in the last 18 months makes you think NOW Hahn is impatient and wants to throw away all that hard work he did to go all in on a Machado trade? Have some faith, or a beer. Because Rick Hahn basically said it.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 05:12 PM) Cubs have nowhere to play Machado with Bryant at third, Russell/Baez at short Cubs would trade Russell for pitching in a heartbeat.

QUOTE (wrathofhahn @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 05:25 PM) What are the chances the Sox flip him to the Yankees and are doing a stealth 3-way? Angelos doesn't want to deal in division and they want MLB ready pitching (which the yankees don't want remove). Maybe we deal for him with Fulmer or Gilolito then ship him to the yanks for Frazier. Sox would never do that. Who would trust us in a trade in the future? The Yankees wouldn't even trust us.

Dave is friends with Rick Hahn. I think that Hahn uses him to reach out to the fan base and gauge Sox nation reactions.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 03:17 PM) Nightengale just brought up the rumor that the Sox might flip Machado to the Yankees. Definitely seems like a competitor purposely leaked that in hopes of giving the Orioles cold feet on dealing with us. He also specifically mentioned “the Sox claim their offer isn’t as strong as they’re making it out to be”. That would never happen as teams would not trade big names to us anymore. That's more of a move at the deadline if everything just blows up on us.

Before I go to bed I will say this: We haven't made the playoffs in 10 years and are in a rebuild, so let's get behind whatever it is these guys do until it actually fails. No need to get upset or rage and we don't how how things are going to work. We were all in on this rebuild yesterday and trading a nice prospect pitcher isn't going to destroy us. IF IT EVEN HAPPENS! Enjoy this ride for what it's worth.

QUOTE (soxforlife05 @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 03:31 AM) What you're saying doesn't even make any sense. Are you trying to say free agents don't want to play baseball in Chicago? If so that is the fault of ownership. This is not a small market. It's one of the top 3 markets in the USA. For endorsements, publicity, there's no reason a player wouldn't want to come here besides the ownership commitment to the team. What I'm saying is the elites will go to New York, Boston, LA, and Texas before us. Hell, even Detroit does better in that regard. The reality is the Cubs hurt us also. Ownership is a problem for us for sure.