SonofaRoache

QUOTE (Tony @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 01:34 AM) God, this is SO White Sox. They've "won" the Winter Meetings like the last three years, and haven't got any headlines this off-season. So let's go out and get the biggest fish on the market, and we'll convince him to sign a long-term deal with us. WHAT COULD GO WRONG? Only the Sox would have me upset about the possibility of acquiring a 25 year old Manny Machado. Dude, you are getting bent out of shape over losing out on Giolito for a top 10 player in baseball? Our rotation will be sick without Gio and having Machado improves our chance of locking him up long term and attracting top free agents to play with us. We can replace Gio in the draft next year if we wanted to even.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 01:34 AM) I hadn't thought of it like this and if Machado doesn't sign an extension while he's lighting up the down arrow cell park place for the first half... we'd likely be primed to recover greater talent than Giolito at the deadline... while then having a bit of a unique position in off season negioations with Manny. Risky - but still calculated. If Kopech is involved thou, I'll want to punch someone in the face. Either way, you know it's risky when the idea of trading either of the mentioned pieces makes my heart rate jump about 35 bmp. Kopech will only be included with an immediate extension, no way he is added without one.

QUOTE (Tony @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 01:24 AM) The more I think about it, the more I don't like it. If the Sox are so confident in their offer, I don't know why you wouldn't wait until the 2018 off-season to make your offer, and keep your assets. I understand wanting to get your guy, this just seems like an impatient front office not being able to contain themselves, and rush the process. We are confident in our offer to get a trade done, not that he will re-sign with us. Hahn wants to trade for him to get him comfortable being here and around the guys on our team. This gives us a leg up if our offer is equal to other teams next off season. This is where Abreu, Castillo, and Moncada will come into play as well

QUOTE (hi8is @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 01:22 AM) 1.) There's no f***ing way they're trading Kopech for Machado without an extension locked up. 2.) If Cooper doesn't believe that Giolito's mechanics will hold up and they're trading him with some sort of extension being a strong possibility, I could look the other way and painfully stomach the risk. 3.) However, if they're trading EITHER of these young starting pitchers just to throw a hail marry at signing him before our during the next FA term - that's f***ing vomit inducing yuck. The ONLY way I would be down with this is if they: A.) Only lost someone like Giolito and a younger pitching prospect not named Hansen or Cease. B.) Where SURE that they could sign him for something like 10/325 with player opt outs at years 4,6, and 8. C.) Could trade Avi for a package of talent that included an arm with as much promise as Giolito. D.) Didn't really believe in Giolito being a long term innings eating #2. That's a lot of "if's" -- so I don't think this gets done... and if it does, the probability that I'll be pleased is very low. I'm not gonna lose sleep over losing Giolito when we have Rodon, Kopech, Lopez, Fulmer, Cease, Hansen, Dunning, 4th pick. We'll have money and the assets to get another pitcher as good as him if need be. It's almost impossible to acquire guys like Manny.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 01:04 AM) One of Kopech or Giolito? Ok, no longer excited. If our front office makes this move I wouldn't mind if it's Giolito. Moncada, Abreu, Machado, Jiminez, Avi would be lethal. Gio would probably end up as our 4 starter anyway and we have guys who can fill that spot. If not we'll have the money and assets to trade for quality starting pitching. We are rebuilding to be a long time contender, not to say we have good prospects with potential and win farm system rankings. At some point we have to acquire great proven talent if we want to consistently win. And if the Machado plan fails, we send him out for a great package at the deadline anyway.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 13, 2017 -> 08:25 PM) What's the point in adding him for one year when you aren't trying to compete? Because they may want to finish .500 next year and get our guys ready for prime time in 2019. They may also want to get a potential core of Moncada, Abreu, Machado, and Avi playing together to see how they work. They could add pieces in FA to finish the team off and prepare for Eloy and a few others. If it all fails, you can trade Manny for what you gave up at the deadline by starting a bidding war.

QUOTE (Tony @ Dec 11, 2017 -> 08:37 PM) The entire reason both Abreu and Avi are on the trading block is because their contracts don't fit the Sox proposed contention window. If the choice is made to deal Abreu and/or Avi, you don't remove half of your potential suitors. You look for best possible value. It's the same principle of not trading within the division. Don't trade to Indians, Yanks, Red Sox, Houston, and LA. Everyone else I'm okay with. Abreu and Avi will both be good baseball players when we are contending, we just don't want to pay for age and possible fall back down to Earth.

We shouldn't trade Abreu or Avi to an AL team we'd have to compete against in the coming years. We don't want to build teams that we can't beat.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 9, 2017 -> 09:22 PM) I know, why on Earth would Jon Lester accept a deal from a team that had averaged 92.5 losses the previous 2 years. We aren't the Cubs nor do we have Theo who Lester probably liked for obvious reasons. Lester and Rizzo also went through the same cancer and were good friends.

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Dec 8, 2017 -> 12:59 PM) I’m fine with tanking another year and developing our prospects. Keep them and then put the full court press on Machado next year. Hopefully Welington Castillo can tell him how much he loves it here next year and our prospects keep filtering up. You'rw not getting top tier free agents coming off a second straight tank season.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 9, 2017 -> 12:04 PM) Favorites? There were two 100-win teams in the AL last year in Houston and Cleveland and they could easily do that again. This just makes for another 100-win caliber team. Right now it pushes them past Boston, but let's see what Boston does in reply. They can't sit on their hands. There could readily be 4 different 100-win caliber teams in the AL next year and injuries/guys struggling would be the difference between them. The Yankees were on par with Cleveland and Houston last year, as shown in the playoffs. The real problem is can our rebuild get us past The Yankees, Red Sox, Angels, Indians, Astros. That's gonna be 5 really loaded teams. This is why it is important we have a relatively good season next year. If we look bad again we will not attract top FA's as they'd want to see some progress on the field.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 23, 2017 -> 12:31 PM) Today is the 12th anniversary of the Paul Konerko WS grand slam. Damn it's depressing thinking about how we've won one playoff game since that season.

Guys remember, this season was the easy one as a fan. We knew we were gonna suck and wanted to lose on purpose for a top pick, so it felt like we were winning. This season was also exciting because it was the teardown and waiting for big trades got us through it. I'm telling you guys now, next season is gonna be not so fun. We will see progress but in terms of excitement we wont have as much anticipation. That being said, this will be a wild card team in 2019 and a Champion in 2020!

QUOTE (Quin @ Oct 1, 2017 -> 05:11 PM) Assuming the top guys stay in place, the Sox will get one of Singer, Rocker, Turang, Kelenic or Madrigal. Dream is get one of those then hopefully Gray or Beer tumbles to the second. I don't think Beer gets close to our second pick.

The Tigers pulled off one of the most epic tank jobs in sports history. Good for them. Now watch they win this game lol. I have no idea who we would draft at 4th but it looks like there are 6 players at the top who are about the same quality. I also think the top 3 picks are going to be pitchers, which we aren't taking anyway. So we may get our top positional choice.

QUOTE (flavum @ Sep 30, 2017 -> 09:36 AM) Indians may be going for WS HFA over the Dodgers tomorrow too. Hopefully the Rockies beat LA today. Sadly, the Dodgers are starting Kershaw tonight and not tomorrow.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Sep 26, 2017 -> 03:23 PM) Look at the moneyball A's. That was the entire team and part of the downfall in the playoffs. Well we got free agency bucks to spend to fill holes and we can trade our abundance of 1B/DH's away as well.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Sep 23, 2017 -> 03:11 PM) I would disagree. That was part of the point of the season. The other part and the part I enjoyed more was watching the young players such as Moncada, Lopez, Giolito and Delmonico develop and play well. I don't disagree with you on loving progress of our players who are our future. The point of this thread was in fact to track our pick. Each day standings are posted and scenarios given of how we can beat out Detroit, Philly, and SF for the number one pick. This thread is also full of posts of several ways posters wanted to lose so our guys played well and still lost. It's okay to want the number one pick and feel a little bad if we get 5. Doesn't make anyone less of a man or a fan.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 23, 2017 -> 02:48 PM) Wanting a top pick and understanding that the success of our young players is more vital isn't mutually exclusive. If we had gotten failures out of Anderson, Moncada, Fulmer, Giolito, Lopez etc, this rebuild is way more screwed than the difference between the 3rd and 5th picks. To me that seems obvious. I agree with this and stated as much. That's why I said I was upset with wins where guys who aren't a part of our future suck. This is our true tank year and having a top pick plus better pool money would be nice. It's still attainable though.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 23, 2017 -> 12:23 PM) Glad to see someone else beat me to this. Let me clarify, I was speaking in terms of the fans. For the fans to go through this miserable season it was about a top three pick. You all know that I am right no matter how much you deny it. In fact, the whole point of this thread is to track that pick, and going through the pages the evidence is clear that everyone wants a top 2 pick. People even wanted to lose to the Cubs to get a better pick, which is something I'd never cheer for, F them. I wasn't on board for the rebuild at first but everyone wanted a top 2 pick for sure out of this draft. Everyone in fact wanted Beer with number 1 I believe. The organization wants development but we didn't, that's the letdown I'm talking about. Because we had to suffer through this season, and to get the 5th pick is a letdown. As far as the guy who says we don't see eye to eye, I could give a crap to to be honest.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Sep 22, 2017 -> 11:21 PM) Sorry dude - we just don't see eye to eye on many regards. This season was about obtaining a top 3 pick, if we get fourth or 5th it will be a letdown. I don't mind wins that occur because our future plays great, but these wins where guys who wont be here make the difference suck. Just like the Bears needed to be in top position to grab a qb last year, and the Bulls need a top 3 pick to grab one of the three studs coming into the NBA next year.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Sep 22, 2017 -> 11:08 PM) Don't give up hope man... 1, 2, 3, and 4 are all still in sight. ?? It's over man. The Sox can't seem to do anything right these days. This win sucked because Yoan had the bomb but our youth of the future wasn't the big part of it. If they don't get at least a top two pick this season is a failure. No reason to be winning so many useless games when other teams are tanking hard.

You have got to be bleeping kidding me with this win. Useless win and I bet we end up 4th now. In a season designed to get a top two pick we fail at that. At least a few guys look good moving forward. And hopefully someone in the NLDS knocks the Cubs off. If they win another title or two our organization may be wrecked in this city.

QUOTE (ron883 @ Sep 14, 2017 -> 02:10 AM) These wins are really hurting. Hopefully it ends with an overpay by some team for avi We will end up picking 4 or 5 but that's okay. There are no clear cut picks this year anyway. It's more important for Moncada, Jose, Avi, Lucas, Rey, TA and other future pieces to play very well than to get a few picks higher. Lucas pitching well is a blessing because most people wrote him off as a top end starter. If he becomes a solid 2 then we are really on our way with this staff.

QUOTE (almagest @ Aug 31, 2017 -> 11:07 AM) This makes sense - "hey to be successful in the majors you need to do X, Y and Z. Once we see you make progress/hit these milestones, we'll put you on the fast track because you'll be ready". Exactly. This is the point of the Minor Leagues. To work out your deficiencies prior to coming up, not sit there and play 2 or 3 years just to say you aren't being rushed. Collins is who he is and his line will look something like this in his best years. BA- .270 OBP- .360 HR's- 25