SonofaRoache

I just buy 4 upper reserve tickets for less than 30 bucks total. We then walk in to the stadium and go directly to the lower level third base side about 12 rows up. Security gives zero fuxx.

The good news is we are drafting safe players while trading for risks.

QUOTE (SpringfieldFan @ Jul 28, 2017 -> 10:58 AM) And Detroit - 2003: 119 losses --> 2004: #2 pick Verlander --> 2006: World Series. Verlander was huge but Detroit went to the WS because they signed Carlos Guillen, Maggs, and Pudge, while claiming Craig Monroe off waivers. Those guys collectively hit .300, with 84 HR's.

QUOTE (GermanSock @ Jul 28, 2017 -> 09:33 AM) The outlook for teams with a good farm is very good but the cubs were pretty much a best case outcome. People also forget the Cubs signed the top free agent in back to back FA classes. They brought in good players in fowler, zorbrist, montero, lackey, and Chapman. They brought in a top of the line president who knows what he's doing in Theo and a manager who has a clue in Maddon.

If this rebuild fails the Sox will need to move to Charlotte. They will have an impossible task of getting fans back, like baseball after the strike.

I never thought I'd see the day a Cubs Sox thread would be 5 pages.

QUOTE (Iwritecode @ Jul 27, 2017 -> 10:03 AM) The Sox didn't get booted out by the Cubs. WSCR bid on the radio rights for the Sox, they just chose another station, which opened up the opportunity for the Cubs to fill the void. This all happened before the Cubs won the WS. So we left the most popular sports station for Chicago sports for some no name station that no one cares about, and the mega Cubs instantly jump on the opportunity? Something sounds fishy about that. The Cubs knew a few years back that they would win a title as did most people who followed their rebuild. I just think that was a bad move for the Sox as it takes them a little more out of the public eye.

QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Jul 26, 2017 -> 05:48 PM) So are we still debating or did we just become best friends? You seem to be agreeing with me. I no longer understand what point you're trying to make against mine. The radio quote shows what the cubs winning can do to the Sox. The Sox were booted off of the most popular sports station in Chicago and replaced by the Cubs. The Sox are going to suffer because fans don't know of or care about the new station. So to say things like marketing, revenue, viewership, etc doesn't have a big impact is not true. As the example I gave shows, the Cubs can continue to kick us down the ladder.

QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Jul 26, 2017 -> 05:38 PM) That's the entire argument here. I'm saying it doesn't impact it nearly as much as people are claiming. The type of Sox fan that's going to start watching/cheering for the Cubs because they're good now was not a huge revenue producer for the Sox anyway. The Sox compete with themselves for revenue: If they have a s***ty team, people don't show up or watch. If they have a good team, people show up and watch. The Cubs don't have a big impact on that overall number. I am willing to bet most Sox fans don't know the radio station the Sox play on. You don't think that's a negative for the organization?

QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Jul 26, 2017 -> 05:33 PM) Fine, if the Sox build a 50 year dynasty and open a ballpark in a neighborhood people want to visit for "the experience" then yes, they can take over Chicago from the Cubs. Will that ever happen in anyone here's lifetime? No, no chance. The Sox have made the playoffs 5 times in 58 years. You aren't getting anywhere with that stat. The fans don't have much entertainment at the game or outside of the stadium. People go to the games and then have to go home. So unless they give fans a reason to come to the park outside of the game of baseball, they better win. It's as simple as that. They don't need to win every year but once every 12 year average of making the playoffs will not bring fans to the park with nothing to do except watch the team play. I go to games every year no matter what but I can't fault the typical fan for not going to the south side to watch and then go home.

QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Jul 26, 2017 -> 05:07 PM) So you're basically confirming exactly what I said then? And as for your meathead argument about trading with them, how many Sox fans were mad about the trade? I don't know any Sox fans who are upset with that trade, not even fans here. The point is, if all deals are equal, you don't trade with rivals in your division, or rivals in your city that could use a player to win another world series in your backyard. Notice how I said all things being equal. The Cubs knew this as well and that's why they gave us a deal no one else would. YOU should appreciate that Sox Cubs rivalry because it led to us getting two really good prospects no other team would have given us.

QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Jul 26, 2017 -> 05:07 PM) So you're basically confirming exactly what I said then? Not at all. If the Sox start winning for more than once or twice a decade over a 50 year period, they too can get back on the level of the Cubs. As they've done it before. The Cubs built their brand on fun experience outside the park and not on winning. The White Sox brand is built around winning. That's why I said if they would of had a four or five year run of success in the 80's, 90's 2000's or 2010's, they could have bridged the gap.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 26, 2017 -> 03:57 PM) Cubs and Sox fans hate each other, but we have to worry about losing Sox fans to the Cubs. Those two things don't go together. Die hard cubs and sox fans hate each other. Casual cubs and sox fans don't care and can switch at a moments notice The thousands of people who move to chicago don't care about either team and view spend their time and money on the winning team Children growing up will either support who their dad tells them too or pick the winning team. Businesses will give their time and money to the winning team Sponsors will give their time and money to the winning team So when we talk about fan allegiance and marketing we are talking about everyone I mentioned except the die hards. I hope that helps.

QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Jul 26, 2017 -> 04:47 PM) People keep using this as an argument and I don't buy it. I'd love to be proven wrong but I don't see them competing in that way. Majority of fans are: Cubs fans or Sox fans. The % of people that are "I'm going to whichever team is doing well" is probably pennies in the grand scheme of revenue. The Sox have been and will continue to be "2nd" due to a variety of hostorical factors out of the teams control (neighborhood, old school national broadcast stuff, etc.) and no single trade or a couple bad years for the Cubs is going to change any of that. My entire 'meathead' argument is solely based on not wanting to trade with them. Cheer against the Cubs all you want, but if the scouts & FO you trusted to be in charge of the team tell you "This trade with the Cubs is our best offer and will make the team better" you fuggin do it and none of the stupid "but I hate them Cubbies!!!" arguments should be anywhere near that decision. The Sox were once top dogs in Chicago. You know why they aren't right now? Because the cubs had much better advertising and WGN. Whether you want to believe it or not, these things matter.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 26, 2017 -> 03:24 PM) This is going to sound cliche, but I don't like whoever the Sox so happen to be playing on a particular night, and, when competitive, I don't like their closest competitor(s). That's really it. I don't hold biases or grudges against teams or their fans. This is where our disagreement comes from. The Cubs are our closest competitor because they are in our city AND we compete for air time, revenue, business deals, casual fans, city dollars, news coverage, sponsors, concerts, etc. They may not be close in our divisional and wild card standings but those other factors I listed matter too. And yes Cubs and Sox fans don't like the other team and want to see them fail. I live by Wrigley and see the SUX shirts right now. And plenty of Cubs fans at work have been very vocal about our Sox being bad these last few years. Because I have to deal with their crap everyday, I will root for their team to lose. Does that mean I'm not supportive of my Sox first? No. I understand that if the Cubs suck my Sox benefit from it in many ways.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 26, 2017 -> 03:01 PM) No one ever said that, but White Sox fans who hate the Cubs aren't all meatheads. It's a pretty big rivalry, just check out tonight's attendance. The Sox don't draw that on a Wednesday night for Cleveland or KC or Minnesota or Detroit, teams some would say are the White Sox real rivals. They are rivals and always will be. I would imagine most people living in the Chicago area know more Cubs fans than Sox fans and know more Cubs fans than fans of any other team. It's nice to stick it to them whenever there's a chance. I don't understand why people are afraid to accept this. It's okay to not like the Cubs and root for them to fail. In fact, for the next two years that's really all we'll be able to cheer for as we lose 100 games a year. Most of our prospects wont be settled in until 2020.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 26, 2017 -> 02:55 PM) I don't hate the Cubs, except maybe 4 times a year. Guess I'm not a Sox fan. Are there any teams you dislike? If yes what are the reasons?

I don't think TA is struggling because of effort. He just has to be more mentally prepared for the game he loves. It seems like a lot of his mistakes are mental or he's hesitant about making decisions. This is where I want to see improvement from him.

QUOTE (Iwritecode @ Jul 26, 2017 -> 02:27 PM) This. I've met maybe 2 people in my entire life that have "switched sides". And it happened years ago when they were pretty young and both teams were still bad. I have met more people that insist they are fans of both teams. Die hard fans wont switch, they just wont go to games. I would say 25 percent of a teams fan base is casual and could switch up and follow a winner. See my post about the southside.

QUOTE (Dam8610 @ Jul 26, 2017 -> 02:28 PM) You're not accounting for casual fans and people who have not yet formed an allegiance. These are the people that the White Sox are potentially losing with these (necessary) business decisions. Bingo. As I stated in my previous post. The Southside is turning Cubbie blue by the day.

QUOTE (Iwritecode @ Jul 26, 2017 -> 02:25 PM) I think, for the most part, the Sox and Cubs aren't really competing for the same customer base. At least not as much as everyone seems to think. In 2006 the Sox attendance was a little over 2.9 million. The Cubs was over 3.1 million. There are enough fans to go around for both teams. Read my last post. Also, it's not just about fans. Advertisers are going to spend their money on the Cubs, heck the score 670 booted the Sox and picked up the Cubs. The Sox attendance picked up in 2005 towards the latter part of summer and the crowds got bigger. After the Sox won the title, they had 33K attendance average in 2007 when they were horrible. The problem was the Sox couldn't sustain the winning like the Cubs are doing. Had the Sox made the ALCS three or 4 years in a row they would be seeing crowds of 39k a game.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 26, 2017 -> 02:19 PM) I believe your assumption that for Sox fans being a Cub fan, or going to Cub games is a substitute is 100% wrong. The MUCH more likely outcome for an upset Sox fan is they quit going to games and watching games, as we have seen this happen in the past. False. I work on the south side of Chicago and see Cubs gear everywhere. I lived on the southside in Englewood my entire childhood and never saw Cubs gear, NEVER. Now, I see at least 10 people with Cubs jerseys on a day, houses with W flags, schools and businesses with Go Cubs signs, buses with Cubs advertisements, etc. You are mistaken. Maybe they wont stay fans but there is a legit threat. Remember, this is the first time the Cubs have won a WS in our lifetime. Fans had no reason to switch before.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 26, 2017 -> 01:07 PM) I agree. Reality is that some fans worry more about the Cubs/Sox rivalry than they do about the welfare of the White Sox, and that is something that JR would have to take into accounting for in a deal like this. Your post only reinforces that this is a real thing. You are looking at it too simplistically. Sox fans were not mad at the Cubs trade at all because they beat out everyone else with their offer. If all offers are equal you don't trade with teams that you compete for resources with. JR is probably thinking if the Cubs win a second World Series while his team has back to back 100 loss seasons it may devastate his business. Advertisers stop coming, fans stop coming and watching or decide to follow the Cubs while they are winning, Chicago media puts pressure on prospects to play well instantly like the Cubs, etc. These are all things a reasonable owner will take into account, just like a reasonable owner wouldn't trade within his division for the same reasons. Your immediate competition doing well while you suck is not good for business.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 26, 2017 -> 12:55 PM) Yes. When they discussed last year if the teams would ever make a major move, Jed Hoyer was quoted about a tax each team would have to pay to get something done. So apparently, there are "meatheads" on both sides of this "fake" rivalry, that always seems to have at least for most White Sox fans, the series with the most interest since it started, and I would imagine Cubs fans as well, although you can't tell for sure since they always sell out. I live by Wrigley and believe me, they hate our team and our fans. After their rally I remember overhearing fans talking about how many Sox fans showed up to the 2005 rally compared to their rally. The Cubs were lucky to have a rally on a Friday with no school and most people off work, AND it was hot outside. Believe me, 20,000 Cubs fans aren't showing up to our stadium just for the heck of it tonight.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 26, 2017 -> 12:23 PM) Great example of exactly what I am talking about ^ I think we all just need to accept reality for what it is. There is nothing wrong with a little rivalry in baseball. That rivalry ended up with the Cubs overpaying because they knew if all the deals were close, the Sox wouldn't trade with them. The Cubs paid a lot more than any other team would have because of our rivalry. Don't be mad about it guys, sometimes it works in your favor.